Kyle Dubas - - Horrible Asset Mismanagement

[francis246]

Not what I meant, was referring to the league as a whole.
I could be wrong but is it that common for playoff bound teams to trade pending UFA's?

I should have been more clear, a year early would be nice. Make the decision a year before and get more value for them. Hyman should have been traded last summer if he didn't want to sign an extension at that point of time. Same with Jake Gardiner he should have been moved the year before. Tyson Barrie (we should have never traded for lol)

 

[ACC1224]

I should have been more clear, a year early would be nice. Make the decision a year before and get more value for them. Hyman should have been traded last summer if he didn't want to sign an extension at that point of time. Same with Jake Gardiner he should have been moved the year before. Tyson Barrie (we should have never traded for lol)

Yeah there is some merit to that. Tough calls to make though but they are paid to make those decisions.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I should have been more clear, a year early would be nice. Make the decision a year before and get more value for them. Hyman should have been traded last summer if he didn't want to sign an extension at that point of time. Same with Jake Gardiner he should have been moved the year before. Tyson Barrie (we should have never traded for lol)

This is my fear with Rielly
I don't think Andersen was ever coming back either

 

[Arthur Morgan]

That’s true, I guess my argument is they should have stuck with the plan in 17/18 and kept the rebuild going. I’m not sure why they decided after that season to scrap everything and all of a sudden go for it. The Marleau signing instead of just bringing back JVR was the beginning of the end for me lol . Good old Lou

If we stayed away from Tavares. everything would prob be good.
Tavares and then signing Matthews and Marner made all this happen. it sucks but we all knew it was coming.

 

[myleafs]

No he is not.
He is however a very important player who we cannot sign due to Wonder Boy not having a clue how to be a real gm.

Not having a clue? Try again. You can disagree with his philosophy when dealing with the 4 amigos which I do but to not acknowledge that he has done anything positive? Ive been critical of the teams make up and some of Dubas's decisions but if he adds some of the names that are being thrown around Ritchie, Suter, Bunting, Foligno etc I will be happy with that and I would expect the leafs to be better than last year. It still is going to come down to the 2 amigos playoff output but the players being talked about will go a long way in helping with the culture.

 

[myleafs]

I agree with you... but at the same time I find it bewildering that we have a rookie gm like this who's learning as he goes. It's just insane.

Good news its his 4th year now so hopefully we are past a lot of those early learning stage hurdles.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That’s true, I guess my argument is they should have stuck with the plan in 17/18 and kept the rebuild going. I’m not sure why they decided after that season to scrap everything and all of a sudden go for it. The Marleau signing instead of just bringing back JVR was the beginning of the end for me lol . Good old Lou

Yep. I very vocally made that case here at the time. I posted this in 2017.

I love how pretty much everybody acknowledges that we desperately need defensive help. But at the same time they say in this thread that tanking "ended the second we drafted Matthews".

And that's the precise problem. It took TWELVE FREAKING YEARS for management to FINALLY admit we need to do a top to bottom rebuild with "no shortcuts". But drafting Matthews for some reason ruined that.

So here we are with a rushed rebuild, and DESPERATELY lacking young defensive and goaltending depth.

But realistically, imo, tank nation ended when Marleau was signed. It was as clear a sign as possible showing that management was done with the rebuild.

And now, instead of having the foundations of an "elite" team, we have the foundations of a "decent" team.

Tanknation - Is the Population Zero ?

 

[DarkKnight]

Interesting listening to the Avs situation with Landeskog, the team playing serious hard ball with him and not afraid to ruffle his feathers, because they know he isn’t finding a better team.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Interesting listening to the Avs situation with Landeskog, the team playing serious hard ball with him and not afraid to ruffle his feathers, because they know he isn’t finding a better team.

It is a business - it's not about keeping everyone happy, safe and secure a la Dubas

 

[DarkKnight]

It is a business - it's not about keeping everyone happy, safe and secure a la Dubas

Nice guys finish….

 

[CDN24]

Why should we take less than what we figure a sign and trade is worth?
A 6th rounder doesnt hold any value and are extremely easy to acquire.

If Edmonton wants to save a little cap on Hyman they can offer a better pic than a measly 6th or they can sign Hyman to a more expensive contract.

Let's not make Edmonton's life easier for pocket lint

Why should we settle for a subpar return? a 6th is almost as good as nothing.
Why wouldn't Edmonton offer anything better?
It's a 6th buddy.... a freaking 6th
get over it

Edmonton didn't need to offer anything better.

Sometimes on expiring contracts a team will trade the exclusive negotiating rights before the free agency period. Think Carolina trading Joel Edmundson's rights to Montreal last year for a 3rd I think. Dubas didn't do that, either because there were no takers for his rights or because he wanted to maintain control of the asset to potentially match what others were offering. What he did do was allow the player to speak to other teams in the hopes that someone wanted to give him 8 years and he could extract a pick from them.

Holland was smart and negotiated both a 7 yr and an 8 yr deal with the player so that he did not put himself in a situation where Dubas held all the cards. Her could then give Dubas a take it or leave it offer. The difference of 500K does not mean much to Holland, in fact maybe he prefers not having that 8th year on a player who will be 37 when it ends. Edm probably prefers 7 years but this way he can tell the player we tried but Dubas won't play cards.

Anyway you look at it Dubas gave up negotiating rights for nothing and turned down what he could have gotten all the while being schooled by Holland- not sure how this solidifies his reputation as a tough negotiator. It makes it worse IMO

 

[Donnie740]

Interesting listening to the Avs situation with Landeskog, the team playing serious hard ball with him and not afraid to ruffle his feathers, because they know he isn’t finding a better team.

Now that Dubas has apparently established himself as an iron fisted negotiator by accepting ZERO instead of a 6th rounder for Hyman, will he take this same hardline approach with Riley?

Or will he be the same spineless eunuch he was in dealing with Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Columbus?

 

[Leafsfan74]

Childish on the part of Dubas.
Gotta believe he gets a fourth.
Unless he is far more stupid than I think.
And I think he is a complete Moron.

You have to set the bar and let GMs know "if you aren't going to be serious about paying full value, don't waste our time".

Leafs have paid full value. If Oilers care enough about a player, they will do. If not, pay in other ways (via Cap Space).

Cap space is a premium. $400k here or there can make a huge difference in a flat cap. It could be the difference between the Oilers being able to sign a player, or the Leafs signing that same player instead.

 

[zeke]

No he is not.
He is however a very important player who we cannot sign due to Wonder Boy not having a clue how to be a real gm.

We could sign him if we wanted. We have room.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Edmonton didn't need to offer anything better.

Sometimes on expiring contracts a team will trade the exclusive negotiating rights before the free agency period. Think Carolina trading Joel Edmundson's rights to Montreal last year for a 3rd I think. Dubas didn't do that, either because there were no takers for his rights or because he wanted to maintain control of the asset to potentially match what others were offering. What he did do was allow the player to speak to other teams in the hopes that someone wanted to give him 8 years and he could extract a pick from them.

Holland was smart and negotiated both a 7 yr and an 8 yr deal with the player so that he did not put himself in a situation where Dubas held all the cards. Her could then give Dubas a take it or leave it offer. The difference of 500K does not mean much to Holland, in fact maybe he prefers not having that 8th year on a player who will be 37 when it ends. Edm probably prefers 7 years but this way he can tell the player we tried but Dubas won't play cards.

Anyway you look at it Dubas gave up negotiating rights for nothing and turned down what he could have gotten all the while being schooled by Holland- not sure how this solidifies his reputation as a tough negotiator. It makes it worse IMO

He allowed teams to talk to him, but still has his rights. Holland can still pay for the 8th year. Edmonton never had exclusivity. Holland still has until the opening of free agency to get a deal done and at this point Hyman can still sign with any team including the Leafs. .

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Edmonton didn't need to offer anything better.

Sometimes on expiring contracts a team will trade the exclusive negotiating rights before the free agency period. Think Carolina trading Joel Edmundson's rights to Montreal last year for a 3rd I think. Dubas didn't do that, either because there were no takers for his rights or because he wanted to maintain control of the asset to potentially match what others were offering. What he did do was allow the player to speak to other teams in the hopes that someone wanted to give him 8 years and he could extract a pick from them.

Holland was smart and negotiated both a 7 yr and an 8 yr deal with the player so that he did not put himself in a situation where Dubas held all the cards. Her could then give Dubas a take it or leave it offer. The difference of 500K does not mean much to Holland, in fact maybe he prefers not having that 8th year on a player who will be 37 when it ends. Edm probably prefers 7 years but this way he can tell the player we tried but Dubas won't play cards.

Anyway you look at it Dubas gave up negotiating rights for nothing and turned down what he could have gotten all the while being schooled by Holland- not sure how this solidifies his reputation as a tough negotiator. It makes it worse IMO

it's pretty clear that Dubas had a price and Edmonton wasn't willing to pay it
basically pay what Dubas wants or pay the inflated market price. if there even is one.
Either way this thread over a 6th is a joke. and not a big deal.... like at all it's a 6th... who cares.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Interesting listening to the Avs situation with Landeskog, the team playing serious hard ball with him and not afraid to ruffle his feathers, because they know he isn’t finding a better team.

Just like Toronto and Hyman.

 

[Thornbury]

Edmonton didn't need to offer anything better.

Sometimes on expiring contracts a team will trade the exclusive negotiating rights before the free agency period. Think Carolina trading Joel Edmundson's rights to Montreal last year for a 3rd I think. Dubas didn't do that, either because there were no takers for his rights or because he wanted to maintain control of the asset to potentially match what others were offering. What he did do was allow the player to speak to other teams in the hopes that someone wanted to give him 8 years and he could extract a pick from them.

Holland was smart and negotiated both a 7 yr and an 8 yr deal with the player so that he did not put himself in a situation where Dubas held all the cards. Her could then give Dubas a take it or leave it offer. The difference of 500K does not mean much to Holland, in fact maybe he prefers not having that 8th year on a player who will be 37 when it ends. Edm probably prefers 7 years but this way he can tell the player we tried but Dubas won't play cards.

Anyway you look at it Dubas gave up negotiating rights for nothing and turned down what he could have gotten all the while being schooled by Holland- not sure how this solidifies his reputation as a tough negotiator. It makes it worse IMO

The difference is not $500k. It is 7 years x $500k. BIG difference.

 

[Donnie740]

The difference is not $500k. It is 7 years x $500k. BIG difference.

Factually incorrect, my friend.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Now that Dubas has apparently established himself as an iron fisted negotiator by accepting ZERO instead of a 6th rounder for Hyman, will he take this same hardline approach with Riley?

Or will he be the same spineless eunuch he was in dealing with Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Columbus?

None of that has any basis in fact.

 

[Menzinger]

Edmonton didn't need to offer anything better.

Sometimes on expiring contracts a team will trade the exclusive negotiating rights before the free agency period. Think Carolina trading Joel Edmundson's rights to Montreal last year for a 3rd I think. Dubas didn't do that, either because there were no takers for his rights or because he wanted to maintain control of the asset to potentially match what others were offering. What he did do was allow the player to speak to other teams in the hopes that someone wanted to give him 8 years and he could extract a pick from them.

Holland was smart and negotiated both a 7 yr and an 8 yr deal with the player so that he did not put himself in a situation where Dubas held all the cards. Her could then give Dubas a take it or leave it offer. The difference of 500K does not mean much to Holland, in fact maybe he prefers not having that 8th year on a player who will be 37 when it ends. Edm probably prefers 7 years but this way he can tell the player we tried but Dubas won't play cards.

Anyway you look at it Dubas gave up negotiating rights for nothing and turned down what he could have gotten all the while being schooled by Holland- not sure how this solidifies his reputation as a tough negotiator. It makes it worse IMO

Not so sure I'd agree about Holland not caring about that extra capspace. The Oilers just refused to qualify a couple decent rfas out of cap concerns. They probably could have used an extra 500k capspace

 

[Leaf Fans]

Factually incorrect, my friend.

No, that is exactly what the eighth year will bring if Holland decides to deal with the Leafs.

 

[ACC1224]

The difference is not $500k. It is 7 years x $500k. BIG difference.

As opposed to?

 

[Donnie740]

No, that is exactly what the eighth year will bring if Holland decides to deal with the Leafs.

Double check your spreadsheet inputs, my friend - - your numbers do not compute.

Edmonton will either pay $5.5m for 7yrs or $5.1m for 8yrs.

That’s a difference of $400k per year - - NOT $500k as you incorrectly proclaimed.

 

[Stephen]

In the last 4 years have we traded away a pending UFA? In either regime? The last time I can remember is when we traded Polak

The Leafs are so frustratingly short sighted, like they could never have moved off any of JVR, Bozak, Gardiner, Hainsey, Hyman, quietly in a hockey deal one year out from free agency.