Kyle Dubas - - Horrible Asset Mismanagement

[CaptainCrunch17]

It is really something to see the usual suspects who complain nonstop about being too easy to deal with suddenly whining about him not caving and taking less than fair value. Guaranteed they would be criticizing him if he let Holland walk all over him and take Hyman's rights for a 6th or 7th

This is really a simple transaction. Dubas gives up nothing, does an administrative favour for Edmonton that saves them 400K on their cap. For the favour, he is rewarded with a draft pick.

So the pertinent question is what is helping a team gain 400K worth of cap space worth?

 

[deprw]

He grossly overestimated how good this team is and therefore pissed away valuable futures in a futile attempt at going deep - that doesn't get a pass from me. As far as Marner going cold, that had already happened the previous two years so assuming it won't happen again was another costly mistake. Dubas was gambling that his stars would excel, they didn't and that's on him.

Dubas should not be trading any more futures until his stars (I mean money Mitch) show that they can be counted on to perform when the stakes are high, period. Or just trade the loser, that would really be the best solution.

Well, it would be also interesting build to realize mid playoffs that your team was good enough but you didn't push and you have to play if games. Last year was perfect year for going all-in and we did it, because we assumed that we have long playoffs ahead. I see no reason for Dubas to think that Matthews and Marner go that cold or that Tavares gets into that freak accident. He would be an idiot boss if he implies to his team prior playoffs that they aren't good enough.

I think we can rationalize if we should have gone after Hall, even though he had full NMC and wanted to go Boston instead of Foligno. That we had reason to go after like playstyle, age and being captain. Or some other player. I think this years draft picks weren't that valuable because most of the prospects have lost one year of development and are hard to asses.

We covered all our bases before deadline, but those top forwards going cold. Hall was something that we had. All here agree that our build is flawed because we have four star forwards. We moan and complain about that, we want grit and Foligno was elite grit for that playoff push. Top4 going cold was something Dubas shouldn't have worried. He got goaltender, depth dman and enough forwards for four rounds. We rolled over Canadiens during regular season.

Marner have been in playoff slump, but those Boston and Columbus teams have been elite defensive teams. Bergeron has been kryptonite for Matthews. I don't know maybe that's reason to give completely because we might go against Bruins next year. We're doomed. Though then brace yourself, it will be another 5-10 years rebuild.

Elite players will figure out playoffs eventually. Someone here pointed out that Matthews have been youngest player on the roster for years, Marner is year younger. That is something to remember. There is a reason why it's hard to break trough even as 21-22 year old.

 

[socko]

I wouldn't be surprised if Edmonton doesn't want to give him the 8th year and Kyle is just helping them out. It would be Hyman that would want the 8 years. Now they can blame it on the Leafs. Kyle helping everyone but the Leafs.

 

[Tairy Greene]

This is really a simple transition. Dubas gives up nothing, does an administrative favour for Edmonton that saves them 400K on their cap. For the favour, he is rewarded with a draft pick.

So the pertinent question is what is helping a team gain 400K worth of cap space worth?

He obviously thought more than a 6th. Maybe that extra 400k would help them sign Nurse or Drai's next deal. Screw em, I'm not interested in helping Edmonton become a contender for peanuts.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Most Leafiest thing would be terrible trade to make an example and losing lots value (Chuck Fletcher style), then trading for players that are outdated when league is changing directions and adding costly UFAs for quick fixes. Some wannabe Burkie starting to fix this could be real ugly. I just hope there is some good mystery GM waiting instead of that old boys club that usually changes chairs in the NHL.

We could get another Dubas.

 

[deprw]

Lou just dumped a worse contract he inherited and it didn't cost him a 1st .

This have been replied to you thousand times. Phaneuf situation wasn't equal to Marleaus.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

I wouldn't be surprised if Edmonton doesn't want to give him the 8th year and Kyle is just helping them out. It would be Hyman that would want the 8 years. Now they can blame it on the Leafs. Kyle helping everyone but the Leafs.

If the Leafs had the cap space to sign Hyman, I would not be in favour of them signing this contract. It’s a gross overpayment with way too long a term.

 

[keonsbitterness]

This is really a simple transition. Dubas gives up nothing, does an administrative favour for Edmonton that saves them 400K on their cap. For the favour, he is rewarded with a draft pick.

So the pertinent question is what is helping a team gain 400K worth of cap space worth?

Depends. I wouldn't settle for a 6th if the opening ask was much higher.

 

[Mickey Marner]

This have been replied to you thousand times. Phaneuf situation wasn't equal to Marleaus.

I think they mean Andrew Ladd.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

He obviously thought more than a 6th. Maybe that extra 400k would help them sign Nurse or Drai's next deal. Screw em, I'm not interested in helping Edmonton become a contender for peanuts.

If Dubas holds out and gets an improved offer from Edmonton than good on him.

If he gets nothing though and perhaps ticks off a fellow GM in the process, then I say it’s a poor move.

It’s always better to scratch a fellow GM’s back when it costs you nothing, than to purposely tick them off when you might want them to return a favour to you somewhere down the line.

 

[deprw]

Describing a "fanboy" of Kyle Dubas is describing a person who behaves in an obsessive or overexcited way about his leadership position with the team.

That's a perfectly reasonable criticism as any objective person can see that his track record to date does not warrant such excitement.

You missed main part of his message that was about seeing things balanced. Not all-good or all-bad depending whose making decisions like we are mostly doing now. That was great post and I fully agree with @6ix about these message boards at the moment.

This is best place to discuss about Leafs and this is terrible and full of hate. Like said. Toxic.

If you follow league closely you see that other GMs make mistakes too, even Lou. Dubas isn't perfect GM, far from it. It's just stupid to looks things from certain perspective and ignore facts like some people here does. Eventually all contributors to this board will leave and whiners will pump up one-liners. Moderation here is a joke.

I'm on the verge of leaving this board or following other than games. Not because of the team, because of the fans. If I'd be a player I don't know if I'd like to play for Toronto fans. All say that Toronto will be great city to win, but until that it seems like pretty low, small minded and petty place, if this board mirrors it at all. Been following this team since early 90s and haven't been this frustrated since that and it's mostly because this is so f***ing manic that you cannot really follow this team without bumping to these obnoxious and stupid discussions.

 

[Stonehands1990]

This is really a simple transaction. Dubas gives up nothing, does an administrative favour for Edmonton that saves them 400K on their cap. For the favour, he is rewarded with a draft pick.

So the pertinent question is what is helping a team gain 400K worth of cap space worth?

The very minimum is a 4th or 5th

 

[deprw]

Or someone like Yzerman, Sakic, Brisebois, Sweeney or Lamiorello

Sakic started pretty slow. Sweeney screwed up that one draft so badly, that we would have screamed for blood after that. Lamoriello has made pretty bad moves as Islanders GM and haven't won cup neither. Only Brisebois is cup winner.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

What makes you assume we weren’t an approved trade destination? Hall owns a house IN Toronto

I think Buffalo tried to soak us for Hall and we didn't bite. I really think Hall told them Boston or Toronto and that's it for destinations. Buffalo tried to get us to over pay for him and when we went in another direction they had to take Boston's offer or get nothing. We would not have gotten him for a 2nd...that much I am pretty sure of.

 

[PromisedLand]

Rest of the league has something called a Salary CAP

Dubas' Leafs has something called a Salary CRAP

 

[deprw]

What makes you assume we weren’t an approved trade destination? Hall owns a house IN Toronto

Hall stated after trade that he wanted to go to Boston and it was only destination Buffalo GM could negotiate with, so I think it's pretty clear it was Halls choice.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

The very minimum is a 4th or 5th

If that’s what you think is fair value, then fair enough.

We’ll see what happens.

 

[deprw]

I think they mean Andrew Ladd.

How Ladd compares to Marleau? He can and wants to play and will do so in Arizona. Coyotes don't have to buy him out for real dollars and they'll use him as I don't know as what. Since I don't know what the heck they're doing, but trading Marleau to Coyotes for buyout wasn't option for us. It was bit odd that even Carolina did that, since Marleau was calculated against their cap and buyout was big.

 

[socko]

Rest of the league has something called a Salary CAP

Dubas' Leafs has something called a Salary CRAP

I don't think the league had in mind limiting incompetence when they instituted the salary cap. But here we are... Dubas uncovering new purposes for old changes.

 

[showtime8]

Not really

Using double retention like we did with Foligno it’s 2 million prorated for the remainder of the season

Right, but what was the cost to get another team to retain for the Leafs? A 5th rounder? I can't remember, but it was a late round pick. If they trade a 1st round pick for Sundvist/Blais at the deadline, they get another year of cost certainty from either of them, they get guys who grinded out a Stanley Cup victory 2 years previous, you get the equivalent to better point production from them & you're not asking another team to retain salary.

I don't mind that they traded for Foligno knowing that he was healthy. Given the circumstances at the time, it was a good pick-up. Proven vet that could play centre or wing and can add some grit. He ends up getting injured and he's not the same.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

You missed main part of his message that was about seeing things balanced. Not all-good or all-bad depending whose making decisions like we are mostly doing now. That was great post and I fully agree with @6ix about these message boards at the moment.

This is best place to discuss about Leafs and this is terrible and full of hate. Like said. Toxic.

If you follow league closely you see that other GMs make mistakes too, even Lou. Dubas isn't perfect GM, far from it. It's just stupid to looks things from certain perspective and ignore facts like some people here does. Eventually all contributors to this board will leave and whiners will pump up one-liners. Moderation here is a joke.

I'm on the verge of leaving this board or following other than games. Not because of the team, because of the fans. If I'd be a player I don't know if I'd like to play for Toronto fans. All say that Toronto will be great city to win, but until that it seems like pretty low, small minded and petty place, if this board mirrors it at all. Been following this team since early 90s and haven't been this frustrated since that and it's mostly because this is so f***ing manic that you cannot really follow this team without bumping to these obnoxious and stupid discussions.

It’s a message board. It’s here for discussion and debate. Sports talk radio callers are really no different either, nor is the media.

It’s just sports, it’s an escape.

I’ve been a fan since ‘67 when I was born and never seen them win anything of substance.

How do you think I feel?

But I’m still here.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Sakic started pretty slow. Sweeney screwed up that one draft so badly, that we would have screamed for blood after that. Lamoriello has made pretty bad moves as Islanders GM and haven't won cup neither. Only Brisebois is cup winner.

Honestly I'm at the point now where the Cup is an absolute pipe dream. Any GM that can get us to the 2nd or 3rd round is A-OK in my books

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

I think we need someone who is philosophically somewhere between Burke’s all truculence team building approach and Dubas’s all skill, possession all the time approach.

Neither has been successful.

In the playoffs you need a team that can adapt and effectively play different styles. That means you need more balance and also more depth.

 

[Mess]

Dubas gave up a draft pick with Hallander to save Kerfoot and now has a chance to get a draft pick pick back for losing Hyman. That would seem like good asset management.

NYR gave up a 7th to TB for the rights to Barclay Goodrow and then signed him. What are the Leafs getting for letting Oilers sign Hyman?

 

[zeke]