Speculation: Kyle Dubas having trouble finding trade partners

[DragoGrizzly]

I don’t think it’s all that common where there is a situation where one team could help another team, one that isn’t in the same conference mind you, and there is no subsequent cost to the team.

Dubas essentially lost a free draft pick because he wasn’t willing to sign his name and send a fax.

It ended up costing the Oilers a few thousand dollars a year against their cap at the benefit of 1 fewer year on the deal.

He turned down a free asset just so he could burn another team who he isn’t really competing with. Hence being difficult to deal with.

Is that really how you guys see that? I guess I just disagree that a GM of another team that you’re a competitor against would just get what they want for a low cost. He wanted $4 million in cap space savings, Dubas should’ve….just given him that for whatever the Oilers wanted to give him?

 

[Spawn]

Is that really how you guys see that? I guess I just disagree that a GM of another team that you’re a competitor against would just get what they want for a low cost. He wanted $4 million in cap space savings, Dubas should’ve….just given him that for whatever the Oilers wanted to give him?

I mean cool. Your GM turned down a free asset that had literally no cost to your organization in order to burn a "competitor" from a different conference that you play twice a year.

Yes. That is Dubas being difficult lol.

And there were no cap savings. It was the same amount of money over 7 years or over 8 years. The Oilers have a higher cap hit for the 7 years but are out of the deal one year earlier.

 

[Leaf4Life79]

Another dumb and useless post.

If you actually knew how to read, you’d see how I wasn’t even criticizing the Leafs but rather the shitty way the OP tends to click bait.

It’s not the Leafs forum.

Then again, expecting an intelligent discussion here is not going to happen with you, munchkin.

Nice try editing your post genius.

Your LOLers suck! nuff said

 

[TheScandal89]

Yeah, he's got a lot of milage and it might appear he is broken down. Sad cause I do like Muzzin and he was a good addition by Dubois. One of the very few but now you might have to replace him.

Having the cap space to use is nice but how you going to use it? Trade for Chychrun and give up futures or wait till UFA and hopefully that guy is the guy the Leafs need.

When will the Leafs know if Muzzin is going on LTIR? Cause you can't use his space this season until you know for sure. Tricky

No Idea what Dubas would do with that cap space tbh, but we need D and a 3C.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No Idea what Dubas would do with that cap space tbh, but we need D and a 3C.

Edmundson from the Habs would be a nice add. Could try to get him with 50% retention and at $1.75M for two seasons, that is unreal value for what he brings to the table. He basically replaces Muzzin at a fraction of the cap hit which leaves room to get your 3C. Eddy can play both sides very well too so that provides flexibility for the coach. Eddy plays a very physical game and does the little things well which is what the Leafs need IMO.

Then I wonder if you are going after a 3C rental or someone you want with 2/3 years of term? Like the difference between getting Dvorak or ROR/Horvat who are rentals. Of course ROR and Horvat are better than Dvorak but it's a one year fix for this season.

* Getting Eddy at 50% cost futures.

* Getting ROR or Horvat cost futures but you could try to get them at 50% retention as well. Getting Dvorak with more term cost futures but possibly not as much as the other two rentals.

The issue here for Dubais is does he want to trade futures and go all in for this season. If he wants to get someone with term, cheap AAV, someone you really value, and not pay too much futures... good luck.

 

[dirtydanglez]

So would Crosby, what's your point? Man had a qualifying offer and arb rights and therefore leverage. He's supposed to take less because "person on internet" doesn't like him?

right. they never should have qualified him.

take a look at what others signed for. it's a bad contract.

 

[Leaf Fans]

So what are you implying is that Dubas could had gotten a free pick from the Oilers with the Oilers gaining nothing in the deal and he said no....

Let me guess that makes Dubas a genious....

Dubas will take a free pick from the Oilers. Send one over.

 

[Ciao]

Dubas never articulated what he was asking for that I saw.

Again, you might think his ask wasn't crazy. But the key here is Dubas' difficulty finding trade partners.

Dubas screwed Ken Holland on the sign and trade over an unrevealed difference between a middle and late round pick? That is the kind of behaviour that makes it difficult to find trade partners.

As a Leafs' fan, I'm glad Dubas didn't roll over for Holland on the Hyman signing.

I don't think Dubas screwed Holland any more than Holland screwed Dubas. They didn't reach a deal, that's all. Holland wanted a concession. Dubas wanted consideration for the concession. Neither would give what the other was asking, and from this you think that's Dubas' fault? That's quite a stretch. You should play basketball if you can reach that far.

And what's with your comment about "an unrevealed difference" between one thing and another? You aren't actually so naive as to suggest that NHL general managers should publicly and transparently reveal the substance of their trade and contract negotiations? We offered him x but he wanted y? Who does that?

What planet are you on?

 

[JKG33]

As a Leafs' fan, I'm glad Dubas didn't roll over for Holland on the Hyman signing.

I don't think Dubas screwed Holland any more than Holland screwed Dubas. They didn't reach a deal, that's all. Holland wanted a concession. Dubas wanted consideration for the concession. Neither would give what the other was asking, and from this you think that's Dubas' fault? That's quite a stretch. You should play basketball if you can reach that far.

And what's with your comment about "an unrevealed difference" between one thing and another? You aren't actually so naive as to suggest that NHL general managers should publicly and transparently reveal the substance of their trade and contract negotiations? We offered him x but he wanted y? Who does that?

What planet are you on?

Dubas wanted a pick for Hyman. Holland wanted Hyman signed to an 8th year. It was a forgone conclusion Hyman was going to Edmonton regardless. In a business built on relationships, Dubas took his ball and went home instead of taking a free draft pick. For what? To save his own fragile ego?

Dubas is a man child trying to play hardball in a world full of gentlemen's agreements. I'm shocked he's lasted this long

 

[HuGo Sham]

Edmundson from the Habs would be a nice add. Could try to get him with 50% retention and at $1.75M for two seasons, that is unreal value for what he brings to the table. He basically replaces Muzzin at a fraction of the cap hit which leaves room to get your 3C. Eddy can play both sides very well too so that provides flexibility for the coach. Eddy plays a very physical game and does the little things well which is what the Leafs need IMO.

Then I wonder if you are going after a 3C rental or someone you want with 2/3 years of term? Like the difference between getting Dvorak or ROR/Horvat who are rentals. Of course ROR and Horvat are better than Dvorak but it's a one year fix for this season.

* Getting Eddy at 50% cost futures.

* Getting ROR or Horvat cost futures but you could try to get them at 50% retention as well. Getting Dvorak with more term cost futures but possibly not as much as the other two rentals.

The issue here for Dubais is does he want to trade futures and go all in for this season. If he wants to get someone with term, cheap AAV, someone you really value, and not pay too much futures... good luck.

he's a lame duck GM who has to win a playoff round. He has 0 choice but to go all in

 

[Nothingbutglass]

he's a lame duck GM who has to win a playoff round. He has 0 choice but to go all in

Do you let a lame duck GM trade picks when the next guy will need them?

 

[Ciao]

Toronto Maple Leafs Having Problems Finding Trade Partners - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas can't seem to find a trade partner and will likely need to sweeten the pot moving forward.

thehockeywriters.com

View attachment 603820

An amateur article from a third-rate publication. The author's opinion on what the Leafs should do is even less impressive than his spelling of Shannahan [sic].

His speculation of what's happening behind the scenes with their trade negotiations is just that: speculation.

Somehow he is surprised that the Leafs, like almost every other NHL franchise, hasn't yet completed a trade less than 20 games into the season.

Dubas wanted a pick for Hyman. Holland wanted Hyman signed to an 8th year. It was a forgone conclusion Hyman was going to Edmonton regardless. In a business built on relationships, Dubas took his ball and went home instead of taking a free draft pick. For what? To save his own fragile ego?

Dubas is a man child trying to play hardball in a world full of gentlemen's agreements. I'm shocked he's lasted this long

LOL.

You don't know what what asked or offered.

Anything that might have been offered wasn't free. It would only have come at a cost that Dubas wasn't willing to pay. If he set the bar low, he should expect that the way he starts things off is the way they would continue.

Do you think Holland would have reciprocated when Dubas asks for him to sign and trade McDavid as a concession to the Leafs?

 

[HuGo Sham]

Do you let a lame duck GM trade picks when the next guy will need them?

that's a good question. Habs were in this situation last year. albeit a much worse start and Molson fired Bergevin. I think Dubas has to take some risks, because I don't think he's back unless Leafs win a round or two

 

[JKG33]

An amateur article from a third-rate publication. The author's opinion on what the Leafs should do is even less impressive than his spelling of Shannahan [sic].

His speculation of what's happening behind the scenes with their trade negotiations is just that: speculation.

Somehow he is surprised that the Leafs, like almost every other NHL franchise, hasn't yet completed a trade less than 20 games into the season.

LOL.

You don't know what what asked or offered.

Anything that might have been offered wasn't free. It would only have come at a cost that Dubas wasn't willing to pay. If he set the bar low, he should expect that the way he starts things off is the way they would continue.

Do you think Holland would have reciprocated when Dubas asks for him to sign and trade McDavid as a concession to the Leafs?

There's a time and a place to play hardball. This wasn't it. Hyman was gone either way. Dubas had 0 leverage and decided to screw both himself and Holland instead of taking the simple deal.

I'm not even going to dignify the last paragraph with a comment. Blatant trolling which is against forum rules.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Dubas wanted a pick for Hyman. Holland wanted Hyman signed to an 8th year. It was a forgone conclusion Hyman was going to Edmonton regardless. In a business built on relationships, Dubas took his ball and went home instead of taking a free draft pick. For what? To save his own fragile ego?

Dubas is a man child trying to play hardball in a world full of gentlemen's agreements. I'm shocked he's lasted this long

And then if he took a low pick, you same guys would be saying "Dubas sucks at negotiating. He should have gotten a 4th rounder instead of a 7th.".

Maybe some would change it up and be arguing right now that it would be better to not make the deal at all to show GM's he won't fold.

 

[BCNate]

Dubas wanted a pick for Hyman. Holland wanted Hyman signed to an 8th year. It was a forgone conclusion Hyman was going to Edmonton regardless. In a business built on relationships, Dubas took his ball and went home instead of taking a free draft pick. For what? To save his own fragile ego?

Dubas is a man child trying to play hardball in a world full of gentlemen's agreements. I'm shocked he's lasted this long

Very well said.

 

[Ciao]

There's a time and a place to play hardball. This wasn't it. Hyman was gone either way. Dubas had 0 leverage and decided to screw both himself and Holland instead of taking the simple deal.

I'm not even going to dignify the last paragraph with a comment. Blatant trolling which is against forum rules.

I take it your answer is no, which it should be.

The principle is the same. We're only speaking of degree.

 

[TheScandal89]

Edmundson from the Habs would be a nice add. Could try to get him with 50% retention and at $1.75M for two seasons, that is unreal value for what he brings to the table. He basically replaces Muzzin at a fraction of the cap hit which leaves room to get your 3C. Eddy can play both sides very well too so that provides flexibility for the coach. Eddy plays a very physical game and does the little things well which is what the Leafs need IMO.

Then I wonder if you are going after a 3C rental or someone you want with 2/3 years of term? Like the difference between getting Dvorak or ROR/Horvat who are rentals. Of course ROR and Horvat are better than Dvorak but it's a one year fix for this season.

* Getting Eddy at 50% cost futures.

* Getting ROR or Horvat cost futures but you could try to get them at 50% retention as well. Getting Dvorak with more term cost futures but possibly not as much as the other two rentals.

The issue here for Dubais is does he want to trade futures and go all in for this season. If he wants to get someone with term, cheap AAV, someone you really value, and not pay too much futures... good luck.

We might be interested depending on the price and his health, as he's missed a lot of games the last 2 seasons. But to be honest with you, I don't think he's the guy we trade anything of significant value for. He's going to be pedaled around the league in offers until he's dealt, so its something that could be revisited later on.

Most likely the guys with value that could potentially be traded are Sandin, Robertson or Niemela. Maybe our 1st or 2nd too. I don't see any trade between us that works with him.

Now with that said, Dubas traded a 1st for Foglino, so anything can happen realistically lol.

 

[GrumpyKoala]

The sweetener

 

[Habs Halifax]

We might be interested depending on the price and his health, as he's missed a lot of games the last 2 seasons. But to be honest with you, I don't think he's the guy we trade anything of significant value for. He's going to be pedaled around the league in offers until he's dealt, so its something that could be revisited later on.

Most likely the guys with value that could potentially be traded are Sandin, Robertson or Niemela. Maybe our 1st or 2nd too. I don't see any trade between us that works with him.

Now with that said, Dubas traded a 1st for Foglino, so anything can happen realistically lol.

I understand how it's perceived from your angle. Eddy is not a flashy top 4D who's going to provide both defensive value and offensive value like a Chychrun would so why pay the high price? Didn't work for the Panthers (Chiarot) but it did for Tampa and the Avs (Savard and Manson).

Habs will do what we can to get the best return. If the offers are meh (2nd rounder, B prospects types), we likely hold onto him for the 23/24 season. Very difficult to say how aggressive some GM's might be at this year's deadline.

If Muzzin goes on LTIR cause he is wore out, I'd personally go after Chychrun. Price will be higher but it's a good solution and he's on a value contract for a few seasons.

Teams selling what the best return possible. Teams buying want to pay as little as they can. Reality and you got to get a feel for the market. Fans can only guess on the market and GM conversations

 

[Habs Halifax]

he's a lame duck GM who has to win a playoff round. He has 0 choice but to go all in

Agreed but I think he goes all in on someone like ROR, Horvat, or Chychrun. If Muzzin goes on LTIR for good... It's possible that Dubas can try to add two pieces...

1) Eddy at 50% retention (for 2 playoffs). He basically replaces Muzzin at a fraction of the cost.

2) Horvat or ROR to be their 3C and really make their bottom 6F better.

3) Both Chychrun and one of Horvat/ROR would be ideal but not sure they have the futures to get both and also fit it in their cap.

Will cost lots of futures but if they want to go deep in the playoffs, he might have to trade futures he rather not.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Gotta love how the Leafs are being portrayed as being in such a bad situation when they are a playoff team despite their stars shooting at career low shooting%. And yet radio silence on other teams going on near 10 game losing streaks, teams like the Panthers being tied with the Leafs rn, etc.

The demand for the Leafs to be bad exceeds the supply.

 

[The Podium]

There's a time and a place to play hardball. This wasn't it. Hyman was gone either way. Dubas had 0 leverage and decided to screw both himself and Holland instead of taking the simple deal.

I'm not even going to dignify the last paragraph with a comment. Blatant trolling which is against forum rules.

So if Matthews walks do you expect a 7th in return for a sign and trade? If it’s a foregone conclusion that he’s gone

If McDavid wanted to come to Toronto, would a 7th be enough for a sign and trade?

There is value cap space, and helping a team acquire cap space has a cost. If Holland doesn’t want to meet that cost neither Dubas, nor any GM, should just raise their hands and go “oh well, I guess I’ll take anything”

Sometimes it’s better to get nothing than to be perceived as a push over in negotiations

Gotta love how the Leafs are being portrayed as being in such a bad situation when they are a playoff team despite their stars shooting at career low shooting%. And yet radio silence on other teams going on near 10 game losing streaks, teams like the Panthers being tied with the Leafs rn, etc.

The demand for the Leafs to be bad exceeds the supply.

Amazing isn’t it?

 

[JKG33]

So if Matthews walks do you expect a 7th in return for a sign and trade? If it’s a foregone conclusion that he’s gone

If McDavid wanted to come to Toronto, would a 7th be enough for a sign and trade?

There is value cap space, and helping a team acquire cap space has a cost. If Holland doesn’t want to meet that cost neither Dubas, nor any GM, should just raise their hands and go “oh well, I guess I’ll take anything”

Sometimes it’s better to get nothing than to be perceived as a push over in negotiations



Amazing isn’t it?

If you can't see the difference between a Matthews/McDavid and a player like Hyman, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

 

[shortfuze]

Dubas wanted a pick for Hyman. Holland wanted Hyman signed to an 8th year. It was a forgone conclusion Hyman was going to Edmonton regardless. In a business built on relationships, Dubas took his ball and went home instead of taking a free draft pick. For what? To save his own fragile ego?

Dubas is a man child trying to play hardball in a world full of gentlemen's agreements. I'm shocked he's lasted this long

Dubas would have taken the pick. If it was one he liked. From what was said it was a late pick. Sounds like neither GM was willing to budge.