Kyle Dubas discussion

[Brown Dog]

Strange that there is this sense of impending doom hanging over what has been--on its surface--a wildly successful regular season. Seems nobody feels confident about the prospect of getting that first round monkey off our backs, myself included. And why should we with the murderers row of the Atlantic awaiting us?

The whole thing is very demoralizing coming off the soul-crushing disappointment of last year's playoff collapse--which was, of course, just the latest chapter in the Russian tragedy of Leafs futility.

Still, as frustrating as it is, I can't bring myself to support the idea of giving Dubas the axe if this year's postseason goes the way we all fear. Despite the missteps, I think there is enough promise in the body of work to stay the course with this leadership group and let them continue to try to work this puzzle.

 

[aight]

#dubasstrong

 

[riffle]

Strange that there is this sense of impending doom hanging over what has been--on its surface--a wildly successful regular season. Seems nobody feels confident about the prospect of getting that first round monkey off our backs, myself included. And why should we with the murderers row of the Atlantic awaiting us?

The whole thing is very demoralizing coming off the soul-crushing disappointment of last year's playoff collapse--which was, of course, just the latest chapter in the Russian tragedy of Leafs futility.

Still, as frustrating as it is, I can't bring myself to support the idea of giving Dubas the axe if this year's postseason goes the way we all fear. Despite the missteps, I think there is enough promise in the body of work to stay the course with this leadership group and let them continue to try to work this puzzle.

Does how we might lose in the 1st round change your stance? IE: What if we're swept and get outscored badly exposing the poor goaltending?

I can see an argument if we're in another down to the wire loss, but if we get blown off the ice, I think Kyle can't be brought back and Sheldon, either.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Does how we might lose in the 1st round change your stance? IE: What if we're swept and get outscored badly exposing the poor goaltending?

I can see an argument if we're in another down to the wire loss, but if we get blown off the ice, I think Kyle can't be brought back and Sheldon, either.

Who would replace him. We better be getting a high level GM and not the clown GMs we had previously.

 

[Brown Dog]

Does how we might lose in the 1st round change your stance? IE: What if we're swept and get outscored badly exposing the poor goaltending?

I can see an argument if we're in another down to the wire loss, but if we get blown off the ice, I think Kyle can't be brought back and Sheldon, either.

Not really. I didn't want Dubas to sell off any futures this deadline (and this is coming from someone who actually liked the Rittich trade last year). I just didn't see any available goalie moving the needle more than a healthy Campbell. Or at least not significantly more. I'd rather keep the assets and bet on Campbell finding his game again post-injury. Especially since we'll no doubt be underdogs in the first round anyway.

 

[riffle]

Who would replace him. We better be getting a high level GM and not the clown GMs we had previously.

I have no idea who would replace him. How could anyone know who would be his replacement at this juncture?

I'm more interested in knowing if getting swept and out-scored badly gives someone pause who thinks Kyle should be brought back after another playoff loss? I don't think he should be and I'm trying to think of a good counter-argument to say he should. The only one I can come up with is Tampa got rolled by Columbus after winning President's trophy. However, they went on to win back-to-backers.

In this case, it would be 4-straight with Kyle at the helm that we didn't advance. Only so many excuses can be made even for somebody you love dearly.

 

[The Iceman]

Neither goal was his fault...

HA, you really positively did not watch those 2 goals did you?
First goal he was out of position leaving the Oiler a free lane to shoot. he also took a 4 minute penalty on that play. 2nd goal was off a direct horrible turnover where Manson fumbled the puck away.

 

[Darth Menace]

Who would replace him. We better be getting a high level GM and not the clown GMs we had previously.

Why not Shanahan if he stays? He has more hockey sense. It worked out for Yzerman.

What about mark hunter who was passed over for Dibas

 

[seanlinden]

Strange that there is this sense of impending doom hanging over what has been--on its surface--a wildly successful regular season. Seems nobody feels confident about the prospect of getting that first round monkey off our backs, myself included. And why should we with the murderers row of the Atlantic awaiting us?

The whole thing is very demoralizing coming off the soul-crushing disappointment of last year's playoff collapse--which was, of course, just the latest chapter in the Russian tragedy of Leafs futility.

Still, as frustrating as it is, I can't bring myself to support the idea of giving Dubas the axe if this year's postseason goes the way we all fear. Despite the missteps, I think there is enough promise in the body of work to stay the course with this leadership group and let them continue to try to work this puzzle.

To be fair...the way Dubas came out and did that presser at like 3:10 didn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence. He appeared to be somebody defeated -- somebody who did not achieve whatever his goal was for the day, and then went and spewed off about how frustrating waivers is, or how pissed he is with Kyle Davidson in Chicago.

I'm not saying that Dubas should have made that Hagel/Fleury deal.. if I was in his position, I wouldn't have done it. I also think that when you consider the move he made (Giordano), I think he got a lot better "immediate value" than Florida did on Chiarot, and maybe even what Boston got on Lindholm (obviously that has long term upside).

The problem, as I see it, is that he obviously wanted to do something with his goaltending, and wasn't able to. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in a position where 1 guy generally plays the whole game. He may have a had other irons in the fire too... that we don't know.

 

[fahad203]

Why not Shanahan if he stays? He has more hockey sense. It worked out for Yzerman.

What about mark hunter who was passed over for Dibas

Candidates will emerge, a lot of GM's will be let go as well or resign and some new ones will appear

Out of all years, this is the year I am least optmistic about. Even last year, the idea of playing the Habs was exciting, something the Leafs haven't done in long time. I thought that was it, the series the Leafs needed. An original 6 against our biggest rival would get the hump over

Not only it didn't, we lost again in an embarrasing way. It may not be your fault but if you are the captain of the ship, it is your responsibility

There are those think it always has to be one or the other. If we get rid of Dubas we have to get some dinasour, someone old. No you don't. You can get another up and coming GM but someone who has been in the league, someone who understand the city and has feel for the game

People always compare look at Joe, it took him 6 years with the Avs. Joe Sakic is a Colorado legend, he gets a bigger leash than Kyle Dubas who quit Pee Wee hockey. Joe has already brought them their cups many times

If Kyle did that I would have given him all the time in the world. If we lose out in the first round, that will be 4th year in a row. Even vet GM's who won in this league were fired for less

Heck, I would I would call up Doug Gilmour to save this city again

I have nothing personal against Kyle but this city and team is way over his head.

 

[supermann_98]

Fire Dubas if you need to, but you better bring in Stevie Y or someone who knows how to GM at a high level.

I don't want to go back to clowns like JFJ Burke Nonis.

That's something not talked about enough, like who would replace him? I'd be okay with John Davidson who got the shaft from NYR after a respectable rebuild, but I don't wanna go with another unproven rookie GM

 

[fahad203]

That's something not talked about enough, like who would replace him? I'd be okay with John Davidson who got the shaft from NYR after a respectable rebuild, but I don't wanna go with another unproven rookie GM

Do what other teams have done

Joe Sakic in Avs
Steve Y with Detroit

Dougie Gilmour with Leafs

if they all want, they can all dress for a game if they like for an old time sake

Gilmour is the GM of Frontenac isnt' he? (correction: he isn't)

But for the kicks, do it

 

[A1LeafNation]

Candidates will emerge, a lot of GM's will be let go as well or resign and some new ones will appear

Out of all years, this is the year I am least optmistic about. Even last year, the idea of playing the Habs was exciting, something the Leafs haven't done in long time. I thought that was it, the series the Leafs needed. An original 6 against our biggest rival would get the hump over

Not only it didn't, we lost again in an embarrasing way. It may not be your fault but if you are the captain of the ship, it is your responsibility

There are those think it always has to be one or the other. If we get rid of Dubas we have to get some dinasour, someone old. No you don't. You can get another up and coming GM but someone who has been in the league, someone who understand the city and has feel for the game

People always compare look at Joe, it took him 6 years with the Avs. Joe Sakic is a Colorado legend, he gets a bigger leash than Kyle Dubas who quit Pee Wee hockey. Joe has already brought them their cups many times

If Kyle did that I would have given him all the time in the world. If we lose out in the first round, that will be 4th year in a row. Even vet GM's who won in this league were fired for less

Heck, I would I would call up Doug Gilmour to save this city again

I have nothing personal against Kyle but this city and team is way over his head.

Unless it's a high level GM like Stevie Y, it's a no.

Don't try to sell me on guys like no experience guys like Hunter and Gilmour or guys who are recycled garbage like majority of GMs in this league.

We are supposed to be contending, not going through a new GMs growing pains again.

 

[fahad203]

Unless it's a high level GM like Stevie Y, it's a no.

Don't try to sell me on guys like no experience guys like Hunter or guys who are recycled garbage majority of GMs in this league.

Well our current GM has no experience

and NO to Hunter

There will be plenty of candidates. That you don't worry
What about Loungo, Burke, Doan

So many
You know players who actually played.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Well our current GM has no experience

and NO to Hunter

There will be plenty of candidates. That you don't worry
What about Loungo, Burke, Doan

So many
You know players who actually played.

He had no experience. He has a ton of experience now; mentored under Lou for 3 years and 3 years of GMing.

We already went through it and it's done. No need to go through it again.

Being a player has nothing to do with being a good GM.

 

[fahad203]

He had no experience. He has a ton of experience now; mentored under Lou for 3 years and 3 years of GMing.

We already went through it and it's done. No need to go through it again.

Being a player has nothing to do with being a good GM.

Being a non player didn't help either

Don't worry about candidates. Let's wait to get knocked first round.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Being a non player didn't help either

Don't worry about candidates. Let's wait to get knocked first round.

You can wait on that. I'll be a fan and cheer for the team.

 

[fahad203]

You can wait on that. I'll be a fan and cheer for the team.

That's great bud. I'm happy for you. I wish I had your optimism and belief

Been a fan for 30+ years. Seen this movie before with Stelleck, JFJ and now Kyle

Great talkers. Nice polished. Some of them are good at drafting. But they all sucked at everything else

 

[Morbo]

Being a non player didn't help either

Don't worry about candidates. Let's wait to get knocked first round.

I think you might be disappointed twice in that case.

Dubas sure didn't act like a guy who was worried about his job. didn't trade the 1st rounder, for one, which nobody would have blinked at him doing.

ownership apparently loves Dubas and has no plans to fire him even if they lose in round 1 again (the impending firing has been a fan based assumption all along no matter how logical it might sound to some)

 

[Apex Predator]

Why not Shanahan if he stays? He has more hockey sense. It worked out for Yzerman.

What about mark hunter who was passed over for Dibas

Why has no other team reached out to Mark Hunter?

 

[Dreakmur]

Being a player has nothing to do with being a good GM.

Playing the sport helps you understand the importance of certain immeasurable qualities.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Why has no other team reached out to Mark Hunter?

Perhaps he would be too good and disrupt the parity that the league wants.

 

[Brown Dog]

Playing the sport helps you understand the importance of certain immeasurable qualities.

Might be something to that, but I also think the name recognition of a former player just makes fans feel more content in believing they know and can respect the man in charge.

For much of the fanbase, I think there's always been an automatic disdain for Dubas because he's not a former pro--and because he is young and wears thick glasses and cardigans and doesn't look or sound like a traditional hockey guy. Dubas strikes a figure that is in stark contrast to the gritty types Toronto has historically embraced. Dismissing him on that basis is unfair.

It's not unfair to question his track record though, and there is no doubt another first round playoff exit would add to what is already a dismal record in what was supposed to be an era of great achievement for the franchise.

I can totally understand the thirst for blood and change if we are one and done yet again. Would Dubas deserve it? Sure, I guess so. After all the failures of the team ultimately fall at his feet (as he likes to remind us every chance he gets!). But as Clint Eastwood's character in Unforgiven says: "'deserves' got nothin' to do with it" (or, in another line from the same movie: "we've all got it coming, kid"...such a good movie! But I digress).

For me the question is whether the team has lost faith in him and his vision and his ability to execute that vision into tangible success on the ice. Maybe they have. But I can't get with that. The team made a bold choice when they turfed Lou and handed Dubas the reins. I would like to see them give him the chance to see things through here and not become one of those sad-sack franchises that changes regimes every few years and ends up constantly in flux and never building any momentum to anything.

 

[paulhiggins]

I don't have the numbers to back this up but I bet the teams that have won the most cups have been built from the goalie out, not from 4 forwards in. I hope it works but I haven't actually seen a lot of teams win big that were built Kyle's way.

 

[zeke]

I don't have the numbers to back this up but I bet the teams that have won the most cups have been built from the goalie out, not from 4 forwards in. I hope it works but I haven't actually seen a lot of teams win big that were built Kyle's way.

Start with PIT (Sid), CHI, DET, PIT (mario), EDM