Kyle Dubas discussion

[Leaf Fans]

Why is it “tied with over the hill Bruins” and not “1 point back of back to back Stanley cup champions”?

What happened to “regular season doesn’t matter, show me playoffs”?

The regular season doesn't matter when critizing wins.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Laughing at the ‘nasty’ description. About as nasty as a s’more.

Definitely meant it as in "nasty, good, favourable, stupendous, splendid, satisfying, etc"

But in terms of the nasty you're referring to I think they've definitely gotten nastier with Boosh and Gio. Hopefully Muzzin returns and is relatively back to being himself and it's likely you'll have one of the 3 on every pairing. Holl is rangy and takes up a lot of space as well, Brodie is as defensively responsible as they come.

 

[The Podium]

Laughing at the ‘nasty’ description. About as nasty as a s’more.

I mean, Gio, Bush and Muzzy are all strong boys

 

[ACC1224]

Definitely meant it as in "nasty, good, favourable, stupendous, splendid, satisfying, etc"

But in terms of the nasty you're referring to I think they've definitely gotten nastier with Boosh and Gio. Hopefully Muzzin returns and is relatively back to being himself and it's likely you'll have one of the 3 on every pairing. Holl is rangy and takes up a lot of space as well, Brodie is as defensively responsible as they come.

Got it. I do like the Giordano and Lybushkin additions. Still can’t believe some view him as no more than the 8th best defender on this team.
Holl should have been long gone by now and is the definite weak link. Hopefully he doesn’t dress.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Got it. I do like the Giordano and Lybushkin additions. Still can’t believe some view him as no more than the 8th best defender on this team.
Holl should have been long gone by now and is the definite weak link. Hopefully he doesn’t dress.

Which one, Boosh or Gio?

I think, listening to Keefe's comments, Lyb will be used a lot and won't be leaving the line-up.

You don't think Holl has been better the last month or so? I was really worried about him at the start of the season but i've thought Holl has been better as of late which is actually more concerning cause it makes it seem like Muzzin was struggling more than it was Holl.

 

[deprw]

Similar, but not as embarrassing. It's hard not to laugh about it all. 0 series wins since the 2004-2005 lockout. 18 years. I'm 34 years old, more than half of my life I've never seen them in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

The Habs making it all the way to the Cup finals last year when they barely made the playoffs was icing on the cake. Something the Leafs haven't done in 55 years....they accomplished on a whim.

Yes, it is. Though I'd rather judge process rather than pure results, that way you might get somewhere someday. First it was embarrassment of not getting into playoffs and Burke said that history shouldn't be burden to our team. Same should be applied here.

I really don't care about Habs, they are years away from being legit contender. We have decade when our window is open. I have been following this team since 1994 and have seen pretty much no success. This has been hell of a team to follow.

Still, history is history. You can't affect it. History is unnecessary burden to us. Concentrate on here and now, it's new year and new playoffs ahead. Lingering on negativities of the past is stupid.

 

[ACC1224]

Which one, Boosh or Gio?

I think, listening to Keefe's comments, Lyb will be used a lot and won't be leaving the line-up.

You don't think Holl has been better the last month or so? I was really worried about him at the start of the season but i've thought Holl has been better as of late which is actually more concerning cause it makes it seem like Muzzin was struggling more than it was Holl.

Sorry, Lybushkin. I believe the comment is in that trade thread.
With Holl, some guys can get by on skill when they have a 10 cent brain. Holl has neither, IMO.

 

[janesy12]

Yes, it is. Though I'd rather judge process rather than pure results, that way you might get somewhere someday. First it was embarrassment of not getting into playoffs and Burke said that history shouldn't be burden to our team. Same should be applied here.

I really don't care about Habs, they are years away from being legit contender. We have decade when our window is open. I have been following this team since 1994 and have seen pretty much no success. This has been hell of a team to follow.

Still, history is history. You can't affect it. History is unnecessary burden to us. Concentrate on here and now, it's new year and new playoffs ahead. Lingering on negativities of the past is stupid.

They weren't a legit contender last year either, and look at their success.

Of course you can't affect history, but you should be able to learn from it to help change the current/future. You can judge process all you want, or progress.
The bottom line is this team has had no progress in 18 years. Disregard regular season success, it means nothing. Sure, this team is exciting and its great to have high quality players to watch, but we've seen this story before. Eventually you have to succeed.

 

[4thline]

I'm not the biggest Dubas guy out there, but I think their most obvious path to success is actually more of an organizational status quo approach, because the big picture isn't 2020, 2021 or 2022. It's more like 2016-2032 or something like that.

Once they successfully navigate the Matthews and Marner re-signings in a few years, let some of the big pre-pandemic flat cap salaries fall by the way side, continue a responsible stewardship of the prospect pool, I think that will unlock the next phase of the window of contention, to say nothing of the possibility that they win in 2022, 2023 or 2024. And the key is to just hang around long enough for those percentage to play out, for more building and evolution to happen. We have some special pieces, but it takes time to find the right combination of supporting cast.

Just look at the time horizons of other contenders. Tampa's foundations were originally laid back in 2008 and 2009. Boston's Bergeron/Marchand core was largely drafted and assembled between 2003 and 2006. Even Florida's Huberdeau, Barkov, Ekblad predates the Matthews era.

Excellent post. As I've said before, I'd rather the Leafs be the team to have the patience to bet on Yzerman's rocky start than the one that pulls the plug on Armstrong before the likes of Benn/Niskanen/Neal/Ericksson/Grossman/Daley arrived.

Another "patient" example is the Avs. Sakic came into a team with Duchene/ROR/Stastny/Johnson/Barrie and a freshly drafted Mackinnon and young Landseskog. Put his coach in place, had a 112 point season. then had the group fizzle and completely tore things down over two seasons, ended up creating a juggernaut* that is the envy of the League.

The most vocally negative impatient part of this board would have fired Yzerman and Sakic, and those franchises would have been worse for it.

*(playoff success pending)

 

[I am Canadian]

I think the lot of you would have wanted him to move Knies for a goaltender.

He easily could have made that deal with Chicago for MAF and Hagel and it 100% would have made the team better this year.

He didn't, and that shows his maturity and desire to make this a team that's good for years to come.

Let's hope management notices all the good he has done here. Leafs have a great team and its time for Matthews and Marner to lead them out of this.

 

[4thline]

I think the lot of you would have wanted him to move Knies for a goaltender.

He easily could have made that deal with Chicago for MAF and Hagel and it 100% would have made the team better this year.

He didn't, and that shows his maturity and desire to make this a team that's good for years to come.

Let's hope management notices all the good he has done here. Leafs have a great team and its time for Matthews and Marner to lead them out of this.

The same people stamping their feet to have him fired for not getting a goalie would be stamping their feet to have him fired for "making a bad move to blatantly try and save his job"

 

[29Potvin]

I think the lot of you would have wanted him to move Knies for a goaltender.

He easily could have made that deal with Chicago for MAF and Hagel and it 100% would have made the team better this year.

He didn't, and that shows his maturity and desire to make this a team that's good for years to come.

Let's hope management notices all the good he has done here. Leafs have a great team and its time for Matthews and Marner to lead them out of this.

I agree 100% many of the teams that spent at the tdl are not in the same position as us, and many of them will be entering their own cap hells in the next year. Col/Min/Pit all have players that will require big contracts after this year or have big ones about to kick in.
The only team the worries me is TBL as the have # 1g/1d/1c and elite winger. Stammer is aging but wont be an issue and they team to spend the picks the way KD talks about. Use 1st for guys with term or control and use guys that you have developed as role players to upgrade your bottom six.
They are the best run team in the NHL and you can see Stevie Y doing the same with the wings.

 

[janesy12]

I think the lot of you would have wanted him to move Knies for a goaltender.

He easily could have made that deal with Chicago for MAF and Hagel and it 100% would have made the team better this year.

He didn't, and that shows his maturity and desire to make this a team that's good for years to come.

Let's hope management notices all the good he has done here. Leafs have a great team and its time for Matthews and Marner to lead them out of this.

And another 1st round exit does what exactly? I agree you can't sell the farm for mediocre deadline pickups. That happened last year, but If they lose yet again in the 1st round, where do you go from here. Matthews has 2 more seasons before every team in the league gets a chance to throw an unbelievable amount of money at him. We'd better hope for some playoff success before then.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

The same people stamping their feet to have him fired for not getting a goalie would be stamping their feet to have him fired for "making a bad move to blatantly try and save his job"

Ya, they just wanna see Dubas gone no matter what he does.

 

[DarkKnight]

Unltimately the Avs fail to meet expectations and have their own hurdle, albeit in round 2 vs 1. But the comparison is still apt.

No it isn’t, you don’t just get to ignore we’ve never won a round. I’d add, the constant chatter this year and last for that matter, it’s a failure if we don’t get out of the first round, again the Avs a different metric for success. I’ll guarantee you if both get bounced in the second round this year the respective teams won’t see it the same way and that’s why the analogy is awful.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

And another 1st round exit does what exactly? I agree you can't sell the farm for mediocre deadline pickups. That happened last year, but If they lose yet again in the 1st round, where do you go from here. Matthews has 2 more seasons before every team in the league gets a chance to throw an unbelievable amount of money at him. We'd better hope for some playoff success before then.

Where do we go from here? Well, you make the changes you feel you need in the off-season and try again. Literally is what all 32 teams will do. Luckily were one of the few that have a few pieces that you can only get in a full re-build and another year of information on players like Willy, etc to decide if what's best is a less top heavy squad,

 

[DarkKnight]

My favorite is Freddy sinking the Leafs cause he's terrible but the Leafs are superior to Carolina defensively but Freddy is posting career best numbers there.

No clue how one would work that one out in their head.

The best will be “I told you so,” if we finally do something after years of being wrong.

 

[4thline]

No it isn’t, you don’t just get to ignore we’ve never won a round. I’d add, the constant chatter this year and last for that matter, it’s a failure if we don’t get out of the first round, again the Avs a different metric for success. I’ll guarantee you if both get bounced in the second round this year the respective teams won’t see it the same way and that’s why the analogy is awful.

The Av's didn't win a round until
Sakic's 6th year
Mackinnon's 6th year
Landeskog's 8th year

Sakic's first 4 years on the job (with Duchene/ROR/Stastny/Landeskog/MacKinnon saw 1 first round loss and three playoff misses.

 

[inthe6ix]

I think the lot of you would have wanted him to move Knies for a goaltender.

He easily could have made that deal with Chicago for MAF and Hagel and it 100% would have made the team better this year.

He didn't, and that shows his maturity and desire to make this a team that's good for years to come.

Let's hope management notices all the good he has done here. Leafs have a great team and its time for Matthews and Marner to lead them out of this.

Was it Dubas that said no to that supposed leaked trade (Hagel, Fleury for 1st, Knies and Mrazek) or was it Davidson? Dubas is pissed because Davidson leaked it publicly, but who said no or was that never confirmed?

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

The Av's didn't win a round until
Sakic's 6th year
Mackinnon's 6th year
Landeskog's 8th year

Sakic's first 4 years on the job (with Duchene/ROR/Stastny/Landeskog/MacKinnon saw 1 first round loss and three playoff misses.

It's amazing how upset people are at Dubas in the short time he's been the GM here and the squads he's assembled.

 

[Machinae]

Was it Dubas that said no to that supposed leaked trade (Hagel, Fleury for 1st, Knies and Mrazek) or was it Davidson? Dubas is pissed because Davidson leaked it publicly, but who said no or was that never confirmed?

It was Dubas, and there were multiple 1sts being asked.

If you read the article, you would have seen that Toronto was fine with giving up the 1sts, but not fine with giving up Knies.

 

[4thline]

It's amazing how upset people are at Dubas in the short time he's been the GM here and the squads he's assembled.

We all had hopes to be a Chicago/Pittsburgh, but some thought it was their inevitable right and Dubas stole it from them.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

We all had hopes to be a Chicago/Pittsburgh, but some thought it was their inevitable right and Dubas stole it from them.

Sometimes it feels like some fans would rather the Leafs fail with a GM they like than win with Dubas as GM.

I know we haven't won a round but the lack of patience and seeing the teams he's built as legit good teams is a little strange to me. It's like when you constantly hear day in and day out how Dubas hasn't brought in size or a good blueline yet he's work to acquire both but for some reason there is a narrative he doesn't.

 

[Leaf Fans]

The same people stamping their feet to have him fired for not getting a goalie would be stamping their feet to have him fired for "making a bad move to blatantly try and save his job"

Absolutely, most of the posters who want him fired, wanted him fired before the deadline; some wanted him fired after the slow start, disappeared for couple of months; some wanted him fired before the season started.

 

[ACC1224]

It's amazing how upset people are at Dubas in the short time he's been the GM here and the squads he's assembled.

I think it’s mostly because he was gifted a team with huge potential and they’ve haven’t really progressed much in the 4 years. Fans are frustrated by that.