Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[mikeyz]

12 years as a hockey team general manager at three different levels and he has only ever hired 1 coach, Sheldon Keefe!

Nhl general manager for 5 years, and the only goalies he's acquired are both from SOO (Campbell, Murray). His first round pick (Sandin), from SOO. Trades he's made (Muzzin SOO), (Timmins SOO), Bunting (SOO).....

His gameplan pretty much has been, keep the same core he inherited, sign the Toronto boys who want to come home (Brodie, Tavares, Gio, Spezza, Simmonds, Thornton) and thus require no work, hire SOO coach, acquire SOO players, and continually change his bottom six.

His work has been overall pretty lackluster.

This will definitely be his last days on Toronto if we lose to Tampa. The core he lavishly treated don't seem motivated to help him either.

If I could like this a million times I would.

 

[francis246]

Dubas will end up becoming the Sens GM this summer. He grew up a fan of the team and its the perfect way to stick it to leafs ownership.

My thoughts exactly. I think he will go after that sens job if it becomes available. New ownership he probably could convince them to make him president.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Why are we stopping at Dubas? Who hired Dubas? Who hired him? Take it to the top!

 

[francis246]

Not sure how to respond to that.....how is a gm who inheritated a 105 pt team with the high end talent that came with it and who has never made it past the first round great? Seems like a pretty low bar you got there.

I’m not even a Dubas fan but this argument is so god damn stupid. Can Dubas play for the players?

The only blame to be put on Dubas is the fact that he doubled down on the coach and a part of the core.

Other than that, he built the team that set the franchise record in points. Every year he’s given them upgrades at the deadline. The players can’t execute. Keefe gets overwhelmed in every series. The reality is, it doesn’t matter who the f*** the GM is if the players are this fragile and can’t win. At what point are fans gonna accept this is 100% on the players.

 

[francis246]

Dubas inherited an NHL team rich in cap space, high level players on ELC, and picks galore. He basically through all that away except the high level young players he needed to say “we can and we will” and overpay on 5/6 yr deals (at the time). His obsession with SOO players is concerning and he should see someone about this addiction. Try smoking patches, try AA meetings, Do a Jenny craig program for all I care, but this addiction seems like it’ll cost him his job as GM of the Maple leafs. Good riddance!

Rich in cap space? Leafs have spent to the cap every year in the cap era. It’s literally their philosophy to maximize and use as much of the cap as the can

 

[myleafs]

I’m not even a Dubas fan but this argument is so god damn stupid. Can Dubas play for the players?

The only blame to be put on Dubas is the fact that he doubled down on the coach and a part of the core.

Other than that, he built the team that set the franchise record in points. Every year he’s given them upgrades at the deadline. The players can’t execute. Keefe gets overwhelmed in every series. The reality is, it doesn’t matter who the f*** the GM is if the players are this fragile and can’t win. At what point are fans gonna accept this is 100% on the players.

Interesting take...The only blame is he doubled down on the core and coach?...seems pretty significant to me. Gm ing seems like more than just putting a bunch of guys together doesnt it? Maybe just maybe his recipe for success in not a good one. Or his idea of team building isnt the right mix....0 playoff series wins and he triples down on his we can and we will. Maybe he doesnt recognize what is actually needed ( dman, goalie insteaD of Tavaraes as an example..) After how many yrs he finally decided to add some sandpaper. Bruins made the playoffs got knocked out early and fired their coach....new coach created different atmosphere and philosophy and bingo bango look what happened. Gm has huge influence...massive even. imo even if it is in your words god damn stupid.

 

[authentic]

Interesting take...The only blame is he doubled down on the core and coach?...seems pretty significant to me. Gm ing seems like more than just putting a bunch of guys together doesnt it? Maybe just maybe his recipe for success in not a good one. Or his idea of team building isnt the right mix....0 playoff series wins and he triples down on his we can and we will. Maybe he doesnt recognize what is actually needed ( dman, goalie insteaD of Tavaraes as an example..) After how many yrs he finally decided to add some sandpaper. Bruins made the playoffs got knocked out early and fired their coach....new coach created different atmosphere and philosophy and bingo bango look what happened. Gm has huge influence...massive even. imo even if it is in your words god damn stupid.

You don't think it would be a little crazier to give up on a core in their early 20s?

 

[francis246]

You don't think it would be a little crazier to give up on a core in their early 20s?

a core that includes 2 former 1st overall picks, 2 former 4th overall picks and 1 8th overall pick. It would be stupid to give up on that core. My only feedback would be, if there was a time for a change, he should have made a significant change after the MTL series. I personally would have fired Keefe. Someone should have been held accountable for the 3-1 collapse.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If we win the cup this year, is Dubas still a moron? Asking for a friend.

 

[egd27]

You don't think it would be a little crazier to give up on a core in their early 20s?

Tavares is 32 and Rielly is 29

 

[ToneDog]

If we win the cup this year, is Dubas still a moron? Asking for a friend.

Once a moron, always a moron. As Ron White says, you can't fix stupid.

 

[egd27]

If we win the cup this year, is Dubas still a moron? Asking for a friend.

No, then he is a success and the critics can eat crow. Until then he is a failure.

Fair?

 

[ToneDog]

I watch the L.A. Kings and see 3 ex-Leafs from the Muzzin/Campbell deals playing and nothing left to show for the Leafs. No players, and no playoff success.

Muzzin

• 2019-Jan-28 Traded from Los Angeles Kings to Toronto Maple Leafs for rights to Sean Durzi, Carl Grundstrom and round 1 pick in the 2019 draft (Tobias Bjornfot)

Campbell

• 2020-Feb-05 Traded from Los Angeles Kings with Kyle Clifford to Toronto Maple Leafs for Trevor Moore, round 3 pick in the 2020 draft (Alex Laferriere) and conditional round 3 pick in the 2021 draft (Cameron Whynot)

 

[Gary Nylund]

Once a moron, always a moron. As Ron White says, you can't fix stupid.

I thought that was Forrest.

No, then he is a success and the critics can eat crow. Until then he is a failure.

Fair?

Maybe. To me things are rarely so black and white, but maybe that's just me. I still say I like most of what Dubas has done, especially this season and if the way the team plays falls off the minute the playoffs start, not sure how he's supposed to be able to see that coming. Unless maybe it's all on Keefe, I could see that being the case. I have to admit I'm liking Keefe less and less as the days go by.

 

[Gabriel426]

If we win the cup this year, is Dubas still a moron? Asking for a friend.

Yes bc it will be bc of player X having a historic playoffs performance or goalie X playing lights out. Lol

 

[egd27]

I thought that was Forrest.

Maybe. To me things are rarely so black and white, but maybe that's just me. I still say I like most of what Dubas has done, especially this season and if the way the team plays falls off the minute the playoffs start, not sure how he's supposed to be able to see that coming. Unless maybe it's all on Keefe, I could see that being the case. I have to admit I'm liking Keefe less and less as the days go by.

I agree, it's not black and white. However, the expectation of this GM was to build on what was left to him and make a team that was a serious Stanley Cup contender. For all of the good things he seems to have done, whatever the reasons, he has failed to meet those expectations for 4 seasons in a row.

 

[All Mod Cons]

You don't think it would be a little crazier to give up on a core in their early 20s?

Or sign an 11mil 2nd line centre?

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I agree, it's not black and white. However, the expectation of this GM was to build on what was left to him and make a team that was a serious Stanley Cup contender. For all of the good things he seems to have done, whatever the reasons, he has failed to meet those expectations for 4 seasons in a row.

I dont know why some people are talking as if this series is over. I said before the playoffs began that if the Leafs don't beat Tampa the one who should go is Keefe. I think he bears a huge responsibility for how the team is prepared for playoffs. He can still redeem himself and the team by winning a few rounds, but I'm not counting on it.

As for Dubas, I thought with some of the TDL acquisitions that he gave us a great opportunity to succeed. It's not his fault the players who play well during the season haven't been able to find the heart and passion in the playoffs to play the way they're supposed to. The learning curve is over as far as being prepared, it's no longer on Dubas but on Keefe and the players.

 

[egd27]

I dont know why some people are talking as if this series is over. I said before the playoffs began that if the Leafs don't beat Tampa the one who should go is Keefe. I think he bears a huge responsibility for how the team is prepared for playoffs. He can still redeem himself and the team by winning a few rounds, but I'm not counting on it.

As for Dubas, I thought with some of the TDL acquisitions that he gave us a great opportunity to succeed. It's not his fault the players who play well during the season haven't been able to find the heart and passion in the playoffs to play the way they're supposed to. The learning curve is over as far as being prepared, it's no longer on Dubas but on Keefe and the players.

I don't think I am talking like the series is over and he can certainly redeem himself with playoff success this year. I am simply saying as of today, the current GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs has not met the expectations of his job.

He has chosen the players to acquire
He has chosen the players to retain
He has chosen the coach
He has chosen the support staff to surround himself with.
He has set the direction for the style of play

I'm not sure why some continue to vehemently defend him when he has not had a lick of playoff success.

 

[authentic]

Tavares is 32 and Rielly is 29

Clearly I wasn't talking about them seeing as how Tavares wasn't even in his early 20s when we signed him, I'm sure you can figure it out lol

 

[egd27]

Clearly I wasn't talking about them seeing as how Tavares wasn't even in his early 20s when we signed him, I'm sure you can figure it out lol

You said "You don't think it would be a little crazier to give up on a core in their early 20s" Don't you feel JT and Rielly are part of the core?

 

[authentic]

You said "You don't think it would be a little crazier to give up on a core in their early 20s" Don't you feel JT and Rielly are part of the core?

The Tavares signing is (somewhat) bad in hindsight, though there are certainly far worse contracts in the NHL. I was clearly talking about Matthews, Marner and Nylander. Tavares is still a very good player, and if used properly our team would be even better (not playing him with Nylander, give him all the PP time but have him center the 3rd line).

 

[Antropovsky]

The Tavares signing is (somewhat) bad in hindsight, though there are certainly far worse contracts in the NHL. I was clearly talking about Matthews, Marner and Nylander. Tavares is still a very good player, and if used properly our team would be even better (not playing him with Nylander, give him all the PP time but have him center the 3rd line).

Tavares contract was fine but leadership choices are terrible. Shy Tavares. Kid Marner, and quiet Rielly. Who would follow these guys leads? Marner looks and acts 14 (dancing, singing, complaining about mean kids on social media, racing Bunting and making kids noices, top hats). Tavares seems to have a social anxiety disorder. Keefe as a coach is ridiculous too... Anyone watch his practice interview? He was rambling on and on.., I'm surprised he didn't tell us what color of underwear he's wearing.

It would be shocking if this bunch had a sniff at the Stanley Cup. Their history of failures, soft play and weak personalities are not what traditional sports championship teams look like.

 

[MK78]

Well they gave Tavares the captain, but then every year they tried to undermine his leadership by acquiring Marleau & Spezza to supplement the leadership roles?

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I don't think I am talking like the series is over and he can certainly redeem himself with playoff success this year. I am simply saying as of today, the current GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs has not met the expectations of his job.

He has chosen the players to acquire
He has chosen the players to retain
He has chosen the coach
He has chosen the support staff to surround himself with.
He has set the direction for the style of play

I'm not sure why some continue to vehemently defend him when he has not had a lick of playoff success.

I agree with all those points, he has done those things, and they're all good things, including the hiring of the coach. He's learned on the job and this year has finally given Keefe the tools he needs to succeed. His job was complete after the TDL and it was generally agreed that he had done a very good job. Since then, it's been up to Keefe to put it all together and put the right lines together, the right players on the ice, prepare the team by making sure all the little details that lead to winning are practiced.

Dubas has created a first class organization on and off the ice that is admired by the players, former players, executives, media, etc. This is no longer the gong show that Ballard took delight putting on display. The results on the ice have been there during the season. I don't know what else he can do. I'm sure he would love a top 5 goalie, an effective 2LW, another top 4 defender. But in a cap world they aren't easy to acquire. Sure, he tied his wagon to the core 4, but it's not his fault the wheels fall off every April. A combination of their play, covid, bad luck, bizarre ref decisions at inopportune times, have conspired to ruin what could have been a very good run by this GM.