Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[WTFMAN99]

Isn't gorton basically the GM but has some dude that is his media meat shield lol

That's how I always understood it but for some people, the title matters.

It was also speculation with Gorton, he may be very happy.

 

[ACC1224]

You’ve summed it up perfectly. As you said I don’t understand the organizations need to create this much uncertainty.

Also in a way create organizational panic that was in my opinion unnecessary. I think if there was a time for change it was after the Montreal series. They should have forced change if they really wanted it then. (By forcing Dubas to fire Keefe).

There’s a lot of blame to go around but I’m not sure what more we can ask Dubas to do? He’s made the team exactly how fans want it. Players need to perform. Coach needs to help the players execute. That’s why I kinda feel for Dubas an understand if he decided to leave because he has changed his approach multiple times and it still isn’t good enough. A person can only take so much.

I don't believe the Team is uncertain of what they want to do going forward. They would have their plan in place and will execute it when they decide the time is right.
May not be the best approach, but they definitely would have an approach.

Isn't gorton basically the GM but has some dude that is his media meat shield lol

They need someone to speak the ding dong at the press conferences.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Kevin Mcgran is doing an AMA on reddit and had some interesting answers re Dubas


Highlights:

Q: Hi Kevin, thanks for doing this! Is there any truth to the rumours that Matthews willingness to re-sign in the city is tied to playoff success this year? Seems kind of wild he would want to leave a team that’s going to pay him big money and a city where he gets to be a top celebrity.

A: I think if the Leafs play their cards right, Matthews is a Leaf for Life. Part of the card-playing is keeping Dubas. If they fire Dubas, the next GM may as well trade Matthews before his NMC kicks in July 1.



Q: Does Shanahan and Dubas have a bit of a rift as Frank Seravalli alluded to?
A: Funny, but yesterday after that podcast came out, Shanahan and Dubas put on a show of some sort during practice, standing beside each other, joking, laughing. I don't doubt they have their differences. I don't think that's terribly surprising. I also don't think that's the reason Dubas doesn't have an extension. That has more to do with Tanenbaum. Though if the Leafs go on a run, Dubas will be in the cat-bird seat. Lots of teams looking for smart GMs all of a sudden.


Q: Has ownership potentially made a big error in not extending Dubas?
A: Yes. Imagine a world in which the Leafs get to the conference finals. Then MLSE decides to offer an extension. And Dubas says, wait a minute, Pittsburgh seems nice. Calgary. There are lots of opportunities for him. And these players love him. So does the management staff. I think it's crazy he's not re-signed. I believe ownership forgot the 2006-2016 era. One playoff series.

---
My opinion:
Leafs can't help themselves but make errors and screwing with the best GM we've maybe ever had might result in him walking and taking Matthews with him. And the worst part is half our fans don't realize what we have. No reason to not extend Dubas and then fire him if you didn't like the result, we have money. Instead they've left themselves in a shitty spot

 

[Twine Tickler]

Definitely nervous for Kyle's future as the Leafs GM. There is becoming a long list of GM vacancies starting to open up, and some of which have already specified wanting a more progressive minded GM. Kyle fits the bill for a lot of those teams.

It is mind numbing that he doesn't have an extension at this point IMO. At this point, he really would have the pick of the litter in terms of where he'd want to continue his career should he choose to leave TOR or we stupidly let him go. I believe that would be a massive mistake on our part to let him walk away. He has made plenty of mistakes in his tenure, but not unlike any player or any other profession for that matter, you learn from mistakes. Which is exactly what Kyle has shown time and time again. He has, and will continue to get better as time wears on. And despite all of these mistakes that I have alluded to, he has still done far more good then bad in his tenure. It's really not even close.

If you need any proof on how much respect Kyle has leaguewide, look no further then yesterday's practice. He was shown yucking it up with Rasmus Sandin at Leafs practice as he was in town collecting some of his belongings. How many former players who were shockingly traded from a team come back and give any time to the person who pulled the trigger on their departure?? I literally can't think of 1 other example of this. That is the type of culture Kyle has single handedly created in our organization. Players want to play in Toronto for the first time in a very very long time. He is responsible for a large portion of that

 

[Gary Nylund]

Definitely nervous for Kyle's future as the Leafs GM. There is becoming a long list of GM vacancies starting to open up, and some of which have already specified wanting a more progressive minded GM. Kyle fits the bill for a lot of those teams.

It is mind numbing that he doesn't have an extension at this point IMO. At this point, he really would have the pick of the litter in terms of where he'd want to continue his career should he choose to leave TOR or we stupidly let him go. I believe that would be a massive mistake on our part to let him walk away. He has made plenty of mistakes in his tenure, but not unlike any player or any other profession for that matter, you learn from mistakes. Which is exactly what Kyle has shown time and time again. He has, and will continue to get better as time wears on. And despite all of these mistakes that I have alluded to, he has still done far more good then bad in his tenure. It's really not even close.

If you need any proof on how much respect Kyle has leaguewide, look no further then yesterday's practice. He was shown yucking it up with Rasmus Sandin at Leafs practice as he was in town collecting some of his belongings. How many former players who were shockingly traded from a team come back and give any time to the person who pulled the trigger on their departure?? I literally can't think of 1 other example of this. That is the type of culture Kyle has single handedly created in our organization. Players want to play in Toronto for the first time in a very very long time. He is responsible for a large portion of that

Great post, I agree completely. I'm always amazed when I see how some posters feel Dubas will never get another GM job in the NHL, what those people are smoking I can't imagine.

 

[Dave92]

Kevin Mcgran is doing an AMA on reddit and had some interesting answers re Dubas


Highlights:

Q: Hi Kevin, thanks for doing this! Is there any truth to the rumours that Matthews willingness to re-sign in the city is tied to playoff success this year? Seems kind of wild he would want to leave a team that’s going to pay him big money and a city where he gets to be a top celebrity.

A: I think if the Leafs play their cards right, Matthews is a Leaf for Life. Part of the card-playing is keeping Dubas. If they fire Dubas, the next GM may as well trade Matthews before his NMC kicks in July 1.



Q: Does Shanahan and Dubas have a bit of a rift as Frank Seravalli alluded to?
A: Funny, but yesterday after that podcast came out, Shanahan and Dubas put on a show of some sort during practice, standing beside each other, joking, laughing. I don't doubt they have their differences. I don't think that's terribly surprising. I also don't think that's the reason Dubas doesn't have an extension. That has more to do with Tanenbaum. Though if the Leafs go on a run, Dubas will be in the cat-bird seat. Lots of teams looking for smart GMs all of a sudden.


Q: Has ownership potentially made a big error in not extending Dubas?
A: Yes. Imagine a world in which the Leafs get to the conference finals. Then MLSE decides to offer an extension. And Dubas says, wait a minute, Pittsburgh seems nice. Calgary. There are lots of opportunities for him. And these players love him. So does the management staff. I think it's crazy he's not re-signed. I believe ownership forgot the 2006-2016 era. One playoff series.

---
My opinion:
Leafs can't help themselves but make errors and screwing with the best GM we've maybe ever had might result in him walking and taking Matthews with him. And the worst part is half our fans don't realize what we have. No reason to not extend Dubas and then fire him if you didn't like the result, we have money. Instead they've left themselves in a shitty spot

The 25 year old professional athletes are not opening up to Kevin Mcgrann and telling him how they really feel about Dubas.

He does seem like he would be a good boss, but they showed him no love at contract time. the idea they would only sign with him is nonsense.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Blaming the influence of Dubas haters among media and fans for no extension is a curious take. The media were just as surprised as everyone else when Dubas said last fall that he was on an expiring contract. One would think his contractual status would have already been public knowledge if the media had that much pull with the board.

I also find it difficult to believe that a board running a team with close to a 100% subscriber renewal rate has ever been easily influenced by media or fans. Perhaps Tanenbaum's ego is a factor, but I think the driving force behind GM uncertainty is the Rogers national broadcast deal. Perennial first round exits by the Leafs limit ad revenue that Rogers now needs more than ever as payouts to the league escalate on the backend of the deal.

Follow the money.

 

[The Masters]

Shanny gave him his first shot. Dubas will always remember that. I think he's coming back if we win beat Tampa. If we don't, MLSE has to make a decision on Shanny.

 

[HockeyVirus]

The 25 year old professional athletes are not opening up to Kevin Mcgrann and telling him how they really feel about Dubas.

He does seem like he would be a good boss, but they showed him no love at contract time. the idea they would only sign with him is nonsense.

Of course not but people talk and people know information they shouldn't all the time. Literally how much BS drama do you know about random coworkers that was never told to you directly by the people involved? Like I know Ted had too many grape sodas and cheated on his wife with his secretary at the xmas party despite me not being there or being friends with either.

Open secret players love playing for Dubas. Basically everyone we traded but Kadri gushed over how Dubas handled their situation and how much they respected him. If you've ever had a boss like him, and I don't mean a good boss I mean a legit boss like him, you know the value of being under that. And you can't go back after experiencing that.

Someone who really cares for you and truly wants your success and you get along with great is so rare. These guys are pulling 200k at companies just for being good bosses. Nevermind their abilities. Dubas has massive value to our franchise in recruiting and our reputation.

 

[LeafSteel]

I think if the Poll was re-opened, there would be quite a few people changing their vote.

I know I would change mine from Concerned to Happy. I liked his TDL. He was smart and aggressive and got us the right players on some very shrewd deals.

Now it is squarely on the players to do their jobs and Keefe not to be the 2nd best coach of the series (for once).

 

[Gary Nylund]

Of course not but people talk and people know information they shouldn't all the time. Literally how much BS drama do you know about random coworkers that was never told to you directly by the people involved? Like I know Ted had too many grape sodas and cheated on his wife with his secretary at the xmas party despite me not being there or being friends with either.

Open secret players love playing for Dubas. Basically everyone we traded but Kadri gushed over how Dubas handled their situation and how much they respected him. If you've ever had a boss like him, and I don't mean a good boss I mean a legit boss like him, you know the value of being under that. And you can't go back after experiencing that.

Someone who really cares for you and truly wants your success and you get along with great is so rare. These guys are pulling 200k at companies just for being good bosses. Nevermind their abilities. Dubas has massive value to our franchise in recruiting and our reputation.

Well said! I mean, the suggestion that if Dubas leaves, Matthews goes with him is way over the top but there's no question that the way Dubas does things is highly valued by the players.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Well said! I mean, the suggestion that if Dubas leaves, Matthews goes with him is way over the top but there's no question that the way Dubas does things is highly valued by the players.

I hope that is a load of BS as well but I would rather not put it to the test haha

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I think if the Poll was re-opened, there would be quite a few people changing their vote.

I know I would change mine from Concerned to Happy. I liked his TDL. He was smart and aggressive and got us the right players on some very shrewd deals.

Now it is squarely on the players to do their jobs and Keefe not to be the 2nd best coach of the series (for once).

They did this poll on the Leafs reddit recently. I couldn't find it skimming back but it was heavily in favour of the "re-sign Dubas no matter the result" option. Very heavily.

 

[1specter]

They did this poll on the Leafs reddit recently. I couldn't find it skimming back but it was heavily in favour of the "re-sign Dubas no matter the result" option. Very heavily.

Reddit is very pro Dubas and has been for years

 

[ACC1224]

Blaming the influence of Dubas haters among media and fans for no extension is a curious take. The media were just as surprised as everyone else when Dubas said last fall that he was on an expiring contract. One would think his contractual status would have already been public knowledge if the media had that much pull with the board.

I also find it difficult to believe that a board running a team with close to a 100% subscriber renewal rate has ever been easily influenced by media or fans. Perhaps Tanenbaum's ego is a factor, but I think the driving force behind GM uncertainty is the Rogers national broadcast deal. Perennial first round exits by the Leafs limit ad revenue that Rogers now needs more than ever as payouts to the league escalate on the backend of the deal.

Follow the money.

If curious = dumb, I agree.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Reddit is very pro Dubas and has been for years

I don't hang out there but I browse sometimes. They seem very herd like in their opinions. Probably due to the dislike button

 

[Hellcat]

I’ve mentioned this before, but firing Mike Babcock with $25M remaining on his contract changed the organizational dynamic for extending people. It affected the Masai Ujiri negotiations, now Dubas’s (plus others we don’t see publicly) and strained relationships across the organization. If Dubas indeed comes available, there will be plenty of interest. We’ll see if everyone comes to their senses.

Missing out on good talent or showing respect for talent when you have it is a classic sign on a dysfunctional organization. Basing your decisions on the fact Babcock is a psycho, is stupid.

 

[keonsbitterness]

If curious = dumb, I agree.

I was trying to be nice.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Opinion | The Leafs, NHL’s almighty gods of almost, should beat the Lightning. That could be enough to save the front office

Beating Tampa Bay before losing to Boston is the odds-on scenario. That result would, at the very least, give management proof of progress beyond the process.

www.thestar.com

The Lightning are the three-time defending champions in the Eastern Conference, it’s true. But they’re also a team that’s staggering through the undeniable hangover of three straight trips to the Cup final, from which they’ve procured two championship rings. They’re a team, too, that’s seen the reality of the NHL’s unrelenting salary cap strip them of the depth that made them particularly formidable.

So, while it’s true that you never underestimate the heart of a champion, you also never overlook the heft of a franchise’s mileage. Given they’ve spent the previous three seasons playing 71 playoff games — to Toronto’s 19 — there’s simply no rolling back the Lightning’s odometer. While Tampa Bay has never been shorter of manpower, Toronto has never been deeper, all in all.

So, victory ought to be at hand, and for Shanahan and Dubas it couldn’t come at a better time.

Dubas’s lame-duck status — his contract expires at the end of June — was a clear signal from ownership that this is a wait-and-see situation. If you’re reading the tea leaves, that means a first-round ouster will come with a non-negotiable call for change — a point of no return from which even the trusted Shanahan, who’s in the ninth year of a remarkable 11-year guarantee, might need to grovel to save himself.

But if the Leafs win so much as a single playoff round … well, on one hand they’ll be a grim one for seven in opening-round series going back to 2017. And even if batting average isn’t everything, batting .143 isn’t great. On the other hand, in our society of short memories, they’ll be one for their most recent one. They’ll have slayed a considerable dragon, ended a historic and embarrassing playoff drought, set horns honking from the foot of Bay Street to Woodbridge.

Then it’ll be on to their presumptive second-round opponent, the Boston Bruins. As much as the Leafs bemoan the playoff format that sees them meet their Atlantic Division brethren so early in the post-season, that matchup might be another justification for dusting off management’s trusty silver linings playbook. Never mind that the Bruins, as holders of the Presidents’ Trophy, have essentially marked themselves for an early playoff exit; that it’s been a decade since the team with the league’s best record actually won the Cup, and that eight of the past nine winners have failed to advance past the second round.

For a franchise that last won a playoff series in 2004, the bar is low. In other words, the Leafs undoubtedly have to beat the Lightning to avoid a major front-office shakeup. But if you’ve observed the lack of urgency with which MLSE’s board of directors operates in the post-Tim Leiweke era, it’s more than fathomable that the Leafs could lose in the second round — lose to the Bruins, so long as it’s respectable — and keep the Shanaplan intact, if Shanahan so chooses.

It’s not exactly a vision of the “winning is everything” ethos that got the Clark-era Leafs within a blink of a Cup final. And the beauty of sports means Leafs fans can hope that this version of the club, buoyed by the late-season insertion of Cup pedigree and fortified by the scars of seasons past, suddenly displays the playoff-worthy resilience it’s heretofore lacked.

But if a second-round-and-out run were to play out — and right now, beating Tampa Bay and losing to Boston is the odds-on scenario for this spring — the result would, at the very least, allow Toronto management to finally speak of actual progress beyond the process. It would allow the kings of consolation to speak of a measurable step in the right direction. And it might just see the Shanaplan as we know it survive beyond this season.

 

[hullsy47]

Adequate. Nowhere near as great as he is made out to be. But he's been fine.

Until he can fire Keefe if need be he isn't proven
The 16 playoff teams got efficient points and no way Boston should be this good still
Management and culture

 

[Menzinger]

Kevin Mcgran is doing an AMA on reddit and had some interesting answers re Dubas


Highlights:

Q: Hi Kevin, thanks for doing this! Is there any truth to the rumours that Matthews willingness to re-sign in the city is tied to playoff success this year? Seems kind of wild he would want to leave a team that’s going to pay him big money and a city where he gets to be a top celebrity.

A: I think if the Leafs play their cards right, Matthews is a Leaf for Life. Part of the card-playing is keeping Dubas. If they fire Dubas, the next GM may as well trade Matthews before his NMC kicks in July 1.



Q: Does Shanahan and Dubas have a bit of a rift as Frank Seravalli alluded to?
A: Funny, but yesterday after that podcast came out, Shanahan and Dubas put on a show of some sort during practice, standing beside each other, joking, laughing. I don't doubt they have their differences. I don't think that's terribly surprising. I also don't think that's the reason Dubas doesn't have an extension. That has more to do with Tanenbaum. Though if the Leafs go on a run, Dubas will be in the cat-bird seat. Lots of teams looking for smart GMs all of a sudden.


Q: Has ownership potentially made a big error in not extending Dubas?
A: Yes. Imagine a world in which the Leafs get to the conference finals. Then MLSE decides to offer an extension. And Dubas says, wait a minute, Pittsburgh seems nice. Calgary. There are lots of opportunities for him. And these players love him. So does the management staff. I think it's crazy he's not re-signed. I believe ownership forgot the 2006-2016 era. One playoff series.

---
My opinion:
Leafs can't help themselves but make errors and screwing with the best GM we've maybe ever had might result in him walking and taking Matthews with him. And the worst part is half our fans don't realize what we have. No reason to not extend Dubas and then fire him if you didn't like the result, we have money. Instead they've left themselves in a shitty spot

Not terribly surprising - the idea of a rift between Shanny and Dubas' always seemed a bit questionable - the two have been tight and linked to one another since the Shanny era began back in '14.....

It also shouldn't surprise anyone that Matthews likely wants to work with the guy he knows and has a longer relationship with than any sort of question mark GM. I'd imagine Nylander and Marner likely are the same

 

[Sypher04]

Dubas could definitely use some of the other jobs out there as leverage for his next deal, but the reality is there’s no team out there that can or likely would outbid us, and of all the options that have shaken loose so far, it’s hard to imagine a situation that would be more appealing than what Dubas already has here. GMs don’t usually leave at all of their own accord, and especially not those who aren’t returning to their home or moving to a bigger, better opportunity. Kyle has built this team, I’d be shocked if he doesn’t want to see him work through

 

[Stephen]

I don’t think we should feel insecure but I think we should be slightly worried.

If he decides to leave. Much of the organization is built by Dubas, so things would look different. I’m sure some people will leave with him. I don’t really want a new GM coming in and handling the willy and Matthews contracts either.

I just find it weird how the leafs decided leave things open like this with so much uncertainty moving forward in terms of players contracts and front office.

I think Dubas staying would be the first guarantee of things staying status quo so this group can have a number of more regular season runs with a chance to break through in the playoffs. But I don’t think the era ends with him hypothetically walking out. It just clouds the picture.

I think mandated changes for the sake of change could cause unintended consequences. You see fireworks in the offseason but that’s guarantee of improvement on what we have.

End of the day, my position is we cheer for the laundry and no player, coach, GM transcends that. If the team we have now is a group effort, I feel we are in good hands.

 

[NinjaKick]

ride or die

 

[Leaf Fans]

Respectfully, I don't think he has figured anything out, unless he can prove that his "We can and we will" cap heavy management usage can also produce successful playoff results.

If the problem for Leafs constant failure is having toooo much cap $$ into toooo few players then he hasn't figured anything out, because those are the constants each year and a revolving door of players around of different sizes, styles or experience doesn't address it, only tries to mask it. IMO

Only a long sustained playoff run now will disprove that theory, and another early exit only solidify it more.

He has proved it. He signed the players to the extentions.