Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[TMLegend]

That’s where I’m landing on this years playoff theme.

Just playing devil's advocate, and since I know you're a good and level headed poster and mod, If the Leafs go out in round one again are you still gonna feel the same way?

I mean yeah sure, you can do the right things on paper and lose. But doesn't the GM bear some brunt of the responsibility if the roster he puts together loses?

 

[francis246]

I would think he would want to stay to finish what he started, that would be his motivation.

Maybe, but as we’ve seen with others. I don’t think that’s as big of a thing to GM’s as it is to fans. I don’t think GM’s really care about “finishing what they start”. I think they all want to win and if something isn’t working out and there’s another job out there in the NHL as a GM or high level executive they are all more than willing to move.

 

[ACC1224]

Maybe, but as we’ve seen with others. I don’t think that’s as big of a thing to GM’s as it is to fans. I don’t think GM’s really care about “finishing what they start”. I think they all want to win and if something isn’t working out and there’s another job out there in the NHL as a GM or high level executive they are all more than willing to move.

Unique situation being semi local and being brought up through the ranks to the top job.
How many walk away? I don't think there have been very many.

 

[Stephen]

Just playing devil's advocate, and since I know you're a good and level headed poster and mod, If the Leafs go out in round one again are you still gonna feel the same way?

I mean yeah sure, you can do the right things on paper and lose. But doesn't the GM bear some brunt of the responsibility if the roster he puts together loses?

Yeah, I liked everything they did from the Boston game onwards down the stretch and put themselves at the starting line to start the playoffs in the best shape possible. There are obviously historic things you can’t go back and resolve that end up handcuffing you somewhat but some of that is hindsight. (Some not).

If they lose, it’s because it’s a special team they’re playing. I assume they’ll give us a mature effort. I would probably even say I wouldn’t want to break the band up just for the sake of mandated change. We’ll see.

 

[francis246]

Unique situation being semi local and being brought up through the ranks to the top job.
How many walk away? I don't think there have been very many.

He didn’t even grow up a leafs fan lol or in the Toronto area. He grew up in Sault Ste. Marie. 7 hours away. That narrative is so overrated. I think Dubas loves his job working for the leafs but it’s all fan created nonsense that he is super attached to the team and would never consider leaving. Of course he would. He’s been courted multiple times he has a ton of leverage right now.

And I’ve told you Brian Burke walked away, Steve Yzerman walked away, Brad Treliving just walked away.

In other major sports it happens like clock work. Even Masai left Denver to come to Toronto. When Denver was consistently in the Western conference finals.

Coaches have also walked away. With research I could probably list a lot more. I think it’s happened more than we think.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

If we don't make it to a series against Boston the players have failed. Dubas has put together a very good team here.

 

[ACC1224]

He didn’t even grow up a leafs fan lol or in the Toronto area. He grew up in Sault Ste. Marie. 7 hours away. That narrative is so overrated. I think Dubas loves his job working for the leafs but it’s all Dan created nonsense that he is super attached to the team.

And I’ve told you Brian Burke walked away, Steve Yzerman walked away, Brad Treliving just walked away.

In other major sports it happens like clock work. Even Masai left Denver to come to Toronto. When Denver was consistently in the Western conference finals.

Coaches have also walked away. With research I could probably list a lot more. I think it’s happened more than we think.

Burke walked to come here, Yzerman to go home and Treliving, did he really walk?

Who was Dubas a fan of? We know Granny is a fan.

No idea who Dan is?

 

[fahad203]

Having a good GM is essential to winning, what part of that are we as a fan base not understanding? We’ve had good players and haven’t won Jack all. You need a person that can assemble a good team and make changes year to year to keep you competitive. If having good players is the only thing to success why haven’t the Oilers won? Why haven’t the leafs won anything?

Having a good front office and coaching staff is pivotal.

Oilers won multiple rounds bud
They also didn't get caved against the Habs being up 3-1

We didn't even win anything. Let alone cups

Our management is just overrated. Dubas hired his boy, stuck to his guns and now this is on him

Team does well, he gets to stay.

 

[Stephen]

He didn’t even grow up a leafs fan lol or in the Toronto area. He grew up in Sault Ste. Marie. 7 hours away. That narrative is so overrated. I think Dubas loves his job working for the leafs but it’s all fan created nonsense that he is super attached to the team and would never consider leaving. Of course he would. He’s been courted multiple times he has a ton of leverage right now.

And I’ve told you Brian Burke walked away, Steve Yzerman walked away, Brad Treliving just walked away.

In other major sports it happens like clock work. Even Masai left Denver to come to Toronto. When Denver was consistently in the Western conference finals.

Coaches have also walked away. With research I could probably list a lot more. I think it’s happened more than we think.

At the end of the day. If he leaves. He leaves.

 

[francis246]

Burke walked to come here, Yzerman to go home and Treliving, did he really walk?

Who was Dubas a fan of? We know Granny is a fan.

No idea who Dan is?

Chris Johnson just confirmed on TSN Morning Radio Brad Treliving rejected multiple extension offers from the flames and the flames tried to get him to stay. He wanted a fresh start somewhere else.

Dubas grew up an Ottawa Senators fan.

Meant to say fan, I think my photo auto corrected to Dan lol

 

[ToneDog]

He didn’t even grow up a leafs fan lol or in the Toronto area. He grew up in Sault Ste. Marie. 7 hours away. That narrative is so overrated. I think Dubas loves his job working for the leafs but it’s all fan created nonsense that he is super attached to the team and would never consider leaving. Of course he would. He’s been courted multiple times he has a ton of leverage right now.

And I’ve told you Brian Burke walked away, Steve Yzerman walked away, Brad Treliving just walked away.

In other major sports it happens like clock work. Even Masai left Denver to come to Toronto. When Denver was consistently in the Western conference finals.

Coaches have also walked away. With research I could probably list a lot more. I think it’s happened more than we think.

He is free to pursue better opportunities like anybody else. Unless there is a power struggle between Dubas and Shanny, odds are he is extended unless they are swept by the Bruins. If that happens, Keefe will join him.

If he decides to walk, all the best.

 

[francis246]

At the end of the day. If he leaves. He leaves.

Agreed, I just think the leafs have put themselves in a tough situation. It’s not ideal if he does, the new GM would be walking into a lot.

All I’m saying is, I feel it’s a growing possibility with all the openings around the league.

 

[Stephen]

Chris Johnson just confirmed on TSN Morning Radio Brad Treliving rejected multiple extension offers from the flames and the flames tried to get him to stay. He wanted a fresh start somewhere else.

Dubas grew up an Ottawa Senators fan.

Meant to say fan, I think my photo auto corrected to Dan lol

Are we supposed to feel insecure with all this anecdotal information? The man isn’t Kawhi Leonard fresh off a championship run and playoff MVP. He’s a GM.

 

[ACC1224]

Agreed, I just think the leafs have put themselves in a tough situation. It’s not ideal if he does, the new GM would be walking into a lot.

All I’m saying is, I feel it’s a growing possibility with all the openings around the league.

The Team will survive if he leaves. The table is pretty much set for the next GM, just as it was for Dubas.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Are we supposed to feel insecure with all this anecdotal information? The man isn’t Kawhi Leonard fresh off a championship run and playoff MVP. He’s a GM.

Yea...

I still think he's getting a 2-3 year deal

That being said because there is time to kill, Treliving is out there...I always felt he acquired whatever that team needed but the players failed miserably.

I think it was out there that Gorton may in fact want to be a GM still, not his current role in Montreal.

I'd be psyched to have Gorton. I'd be fine with Dubas returning too.

How would I feel about Treliving? Unsure.

 

[francis246]

Are we supposed to feel insecure with all this anecdotal information? The man isn’t Kawhi Leonard fresh off a championship run and playoff MVP. He’s a GM.

I don’t think we should feel insecure but I think we should be slightly worried.

If he decides to leave. Much of the organization is built by Dubas, so things would look different. I’m sure some people will leave with him. I don’t really want a new GM coming in and handling the willy and Matthews contracts either.

I just find it weird how the leafs decided leave things open like this with so much uncertainty moving forward in terms of players contracts and front office.

 

[ToneDog]

Yea...

I still think he's getting a 2-3 year deal

That being said because there is time to kill, Treliving is out there...I always felt he acquired whatever that team needed but the players failed miserably.

I think it was out there that Gorton may in fact want to be a GM still, not his current role in Montreal.

I'd be psyched to have Gorton. I'd be fine with Dubas returning too.

How would I feel about Treliving? Unsure.

Whoever is GM, a good start is resigning Matty, Willie and ROR to team friendly deals.

I don’t think we should feel insecure but I think we should be slightly worried.

If he decides to leave. Much of the organization is built by Dubas, so things would look different. I’m sure some people will leave with him. I don’t really want a new GM coming in and handling the willy and Matthews contracts either.

I just find it weird how the leafs decided leave things open like this with so much uncertainty moving forward in terms of players contracts and front office.

50+ years of incompetence. Are you really surprised ??

 

[WTFMAN99]

Whoever is GM, a good start is resigning Matty, Willie and ROR to team friendly deals.


50+ years of incompetence. Are you really surprised ??

8 years 13-13.75M for Matthews (more than both McDavid and MacKinnon)
8 years 8.75M for Nylander
2 years 4M for ROR
1-2 years 800-850k for Schenn
2 years 1.275M for Acciari
1-2 years 3.25-3.75M for Samsonov

Let's go!

 

[francis246]

Whoever is GM, a good start is resigning Matty, Willie and ROR to team friendly deals.


50+ years of incompetence. Are you really surprised ??

Can’t be surprised at all. But as other mentioned there will be some decent options available. I think on the other side of the coin, the leafs could hypothetically choose to still go in a new direction even if they win a round as well.

Lots of possibilities, I’d love Gorton if Dubas isn’t extended/walks.

 

[rocketman588]

Hearing that Treliving was offered an extension multiple times throughout the year and still decided to walk furthers my fear that Dubas could potentially leave even if Toronto wants him back or even if they have success.

We should have just extended him last year and not put ourselves in this position to give him the opportunity to look elsewhere. But I understand the hesitation by ownership/Shanny.

The difference was that he isn't allowed to fire the coach who is obviously ruining the team he built

Dubas has carte blanche for everything basically

 

[Dekes For Days]

I don’t think we should feel insecure but I think we should be slightly worried.

If he decides to leave. Much of the organization is built by Dubas, so things would look different. I’m sure some people will leave with him. I don’t really want a new GM coming in and handling the willy and Matthews contracts either.

I just find it weird how the leafs decided leave things open like this with so much uncertainty moving forward in terms of players contracts and front office.

It's pretty obvious that MLSE made a big mistake not signing Dubas to an extension last offseason, but that's kind of what you get when you have hockey media looking to spread negativity and chaos, and a portion of the fanbase that eats it up and throws hate at the wrong targets based on incorrect narratives and a refusal to consider anything other than the number in the playoff series win column. It puts pressure on the board to make bad decisions.

I still think it's overwhelmingly likely that Dubas re-signs, and there's some comfort in the fact that Dubas has set the team up really well moving forward (way better than the previous GM), but we definitely left too much uncertainty in a massively important position.

 

[ToneDog]

8 years 13-13.75M for Matthews (more than both McDavid and MacKinnon)
8 years 8.75M for Nylander
2 years 4M for ROR
1-2 years 800-850k for Schenn
2 years 1.275M for Acciari
1-2 years 3.25-3.75M for Samsonov

Let's go!

I don't think Matty deserves to be paid that much more than Mac or McDavid. Pasta just had an MVP reason and signed for $11.25m. If I were Matty, I'd take $1 more than Mac. As much money as that is, it would show the fans that winning is more important than $$$ to him.

 

[francis246]

It's pretty obvious that MLSE made a big mistake not signing Dubas to an extension last offseason, but that's kind of what you get when you have hockey media looking to spread negativity and chaos, and a portion of the fanbase that eats it up and throws hate at the wrong targets based on incorrect narratives and a refusal to consider anything other than the number in the playoff series win column. It puts pressure on the board to make bad decisions.

I still think it's overwhelmingly likely that Dubas re-signs, and there's some comfort in the fact that Dubas has set the team up really well moving forward (way better than the previous GM), but we definitely left too much uncertainty in a massively important position.

You’ve summed it up perfectly. As you said I don’t understand the organizations need to create this much uncertainty.

Also in a way create organizational panic that was in my opinion unnecessary. I think if there was a time for change it was after the Montreal series. They should have forced change if they really wanted it then. (By forcing Dubas to fire Keefe).

There’s a lot of blame to go around but I’m not sure what more we can ask Dubas to do? He’s made the team exactly how fans want it. Players need to perform. Coach needs to help the players execute. That’s why I kinda feel for Dubas an understand if he decided to leave because he has changed his approach multiple times and it still isn’t good enough. A person can only take so much.

 

[fahad203]

You’ve summed it up perfectly. As you said I don’t understand the organizations need to create this much uncertainty.

Also in a way create organizational panic that was in my opinion unnecessary. I think if there was a time for change it was after the Montreal series. They should have forced change if they really wanted it then. (By forcing Dubas to fire Keefe).

There’s a lot of blame to go around but I’m not sure what more we can ask Dubas to do? He’s made the team exactly how fans want it. Players need to perform. Coach needs to help the players execute.

No doubt. I actually like the team he has finally built
I am more comfortable with this team than any other team he has put together

We will see. At the end of the day MLSE may have a different plan all together

'll worry about Dubas and Keefe after the playoffs

 

[rocketman588]

Yea...

I still think he's getting a 2-3 year deal

That being said because there is time to kill, Treliving is out there...I always felt he acquired whatever that team needed but the players failed miserably.

I think it was out there that Gorton may in fact want to be a GM still, not his current role in Montreal.

I'd be psyched to have Gorton. I'd be fine with Dubas returning too.

How would I feel about Treliving? Unsure.

Isn't gorton basically the GM but has some dude that is his media meat shield lol