Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[DraftSchmaft]

O'Reilly has looked past his prime i.e why the Blues were no longer a good team, when he hasn't had Nylander or Marner carrying the line.

I mean look, the moves were good but let's not embarrass ourselves by labeling it a "go for it" year.

If it's a go-for-it year, you attack the lack of scoring issues we face in the playoffs and add guys in the heart of their prime like Meier and Horvat.

(EDIT: Or add a top 4 impact D)

Meier has been mediocre since joining the Devils yet still pacing 35 goals a season (restricting his games to just his time with Devils). That's the depth we needed to make up for having a bunch of guys who are threats for only scoring 0 goals when it matters. If our additions go into mediocre mode they aren't even roster able.

We're only going to get mediocre to "good" with Dubas. We're never going to get sure fire great moves that puts us above our opponents. I mean, the only good thing he's done is keep the core together. But how hard is that when you throw so much money at them. Any GM can do that. Ironically then, he also failed the Nylander deal. Time has proven 8.5 x 8 like Nylander wanted was the best play to make. Nylander's best and essentially ALL his prime years @ 8.5 is a steal. You can then safely let him walk if he wants something ridiculous in his 30's.



I genuinely believe we have at least 1 cup since 2016 if Dubas isn't GM. The playoffs starting next week makes that hurt more, since we're heading into it not only with 0 cups with this amazing core, but not even a first round win! And we're heading into this series basically a coin flip, where a loss still gets a pat on the back because it's the Lightning.

Rant over. Best of luck.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I stand corrected but my point stands. The final results for the season has taken a step back

I'm not really sure taking a step back 4 points off the franchise record point total we had last year to still be one of the most dominant teams in the league is a major cause for concern... Especially considering that it was while experiencing significant injury impacts, including the maybe permanent loss of one of our best defensemen.

Overall, we may have had a slightly worse season, but I think after factoring in our deadline additions, this is the best team we've had in this era going into the playoffs.

 

[Menzinger]

O'Reilly has looked past his prime i.e why the Blues were no longer a good team, when he hasn't had Nylander or Marner carrying the line.

I mean look, the moves were good but let's not embarrass ourselves by labeling it a "go for it" year.

If it's a go-for-it year, you attack the lack of scoring issues we face in the playoffs and add guys in the heart of their prime like Meier and Horvat.

(EDIT: Or add a top 4 impact D)

Meier has been mediocre since joining the Devils yet still pacing 35 goals a season (restricting his games to just his time with Devils). That's the depth we needed to make up for having a bunch of guys who are threats for only scoring 0 goals when it matters. If our additions go into mediocre mode they aren't even roster able.

We're only going to get mediocre to "good" with Dubas. We're never going to get sure fire great moves that puts us above our opponents. I mean, the only good thing he's done is keep the core together. But how hard is that when you throw so much money at them. Any GM can do that. Ironically then, he also failed the Nylander deal. Time has proven 8.5 x 8 like Nylander wanted was the best play to make. Nylander's best and essentially ALL his prime years @ 8.5 is a steal. You can then safely let him walk if he wants something ridiculous in his 30's.



I genuinely believe we have at least 1 cup since 2016 if Dubas isn't GM. The playoffs starting next week makes that hurt more, since we're heading into it not only with 0 cups with this amazing core, but not even a first round win! And we're heading into this series basically a coin flip, where a loss still gets a pat on the back because it's the Lightning.

Rant over. Best of luck.

What exactly would those moves be?

 

[1specter]

I stand corrected but my point stands. The final results for the season has taken a step back

It hasn't though? Leafs finished 4th in the league last year, they are 4th in the league this year. Raw # of pts should be looked at with context - there is much more parity in the league this year and the bottom feeders of the East from last season got way better so there was less points coming from beating up on crappy teams in our division. 2nd overall in the league last year had 119 pts, 2nd overall this year had 113 pts (only 2 pts more than Toronto). Bruins went nuclear and have way more points than the Panthers who finished first last year, but that's the only real difference. Also 9 teams last year had 50+ wins, whereas 7 teams this year have 50+ wins, the Leafs being one of them.

 

[Rude Dog]

Lot of people are quick to point out what Dubas inherited yet ignore that the vast majority of Lou’s 105 point team was also inherited. Nylander, Marner, Hyman, Brown were already in the system. Matthews was a slam dunk, no brainer pick. We’ve received little nothing else from Lou’s drafts prior to this recent run of Joseph Woll.

During Lou’s tenure as GM, these are the players he added via trades, waiver claims and signings:

Mikhail Grabner
Frank Corrado (waiver claim)
Jeremy Morin
Colin Greening
Milan Michalek
Tobias Lindberg
Jared Cowen
Colin Smith
Nick Spaling
Raffi Torres
Alex Stalock
Ben Smith
Connor Carrick
Brooks Laich
Nikita Zaitsev
Frederik Andersen
Kerby Rychel
Matt Martin
Roman Polak (back after trading him)
Jhonas Enroth
Curtis McElhinney (waiver claim)
Alexei Marchenko (waiver claim)
Bryan Boyle
Eric Fehr
Steve Olesky
Calle Rosen
Andreas Borgman
Ron Hainsey
Dominic Moore
Patrick Marleau
Calvin Pickard
Tomas Plekanec
Kyle Baun

This is what you people are clamouring for? Aside from Hainsey and Andersen it’s largely a big pile of nothing

Any Leaf fan that would prefer Lou to Dubas right now is as senile as Lou.

 

[Rude Dog]

O'Reilly has looked past his prime i.e why the Blues were no longer a good team, when he hasn't had Nylander or Marner carrying the line.

I mean look, the moves were good but let's not embarrass ourselves by labeling it a "go for it" year.

If it's a go-for-it year, you attack the lack of scoring issues we face in the playoffs and add guys in the heart of their prime like Meier and Horvat.

(EDIT: Or add a top 4 impact D)

Meier has been mediocre since joining the Devils yet still pacing 35 goals a season (restricting his games to just his time with Devils). That's the depth we needed to make up for having a bunch of guys who are threats for only scoring 0 goals when it matters. If our additions go into mediocre mode they aren't even roster able.

We're only going to get mediocre to "good" with Dubas. We're never going to get sure fire great moves that puts us above our opponents. I mean, the only good thing he's done is keep the core together. But how hard is that when you throw so much money at them. Any GM can do that. Ironically then, he also failed the Nylander deal. Time has proven 8.5 x 8 like Nylander wanted was the best play to make. Nylander's best and essentially ALL his prime years @ 8.5 is a steal. You can then safely let him walk if he wants something ridiculous in his 30's.



I genuinely believe we have at least 1 cup since 2016 if Dubas isn't GM. The playoffs starting next week makes that hurt more, since we're heading into it not only with 0 cups with this amazing core, but not even a first round win! And we're heading into this series basically a coin flip, where a loss still gets a pat on the back because it's the Lightning.

Rant over. Best of luck.

It was the players that didn’t get it done. i am a huge fan of Mathews but compare his playoff stats with McDavid. If he scores just one or two more goals in a few of those series they win. Couldn’t find a way. Hard for Dubas to score from the press box.

 

[kb]

It was the players that didn’t get it done. i am a huge fan of Mathews but compare his playoff stats with McDavid. If he scores just one or two more goals in a few of those series they win. Couldn’t find a way. Hard for Dubas to score from the press box.

Blaming the only one not down on ice level is pure clown college material

 

[ToneDog]

It was the players that didn’t get it done. i am a huge fan of Mathews but compare his playoff stats with McDavid. If he scores just one or two more goals in a few of those series they win. Couldn’t find a way. Hard for Dubas to score from the press box.

Hextall said the exact same words after he was fired. Pens lost to Chicago and Columbus and missed the playoffs yet Hex is out of a job. Go figure.

 

[JKG33]

Blaming the only one not down on ice level is pure clown college material

Who picks the players that're playing?

 

[ToneDog]

Who picks the players that're playing?

By that logic, no coach or GM should ever be fired.

 

[JKG33]

By that logic, no coach or GM should ever be fired.

Um what? I'm saying it's his fault for picking players that can't get it done...

 

[ToneDog]

Um what? I'm saying it's his fault for picking players that can't get it done...

Yup I was referring to the logic you replied to. Your logic is more in tune with the real world.

 

[JKG33]

Yup I was referring to the logic you replied to. Your logic is more in tune with the real world.

Oh my bad I thought you were referring to me

 

[Gabriel426]

I blame it on Bozak scoring a first period hat trick and also scoring goals toward the end of the season with McD as the price on draft day. If it weren’t for those Bozak goals, the Leafs would had less points and finished 3rd last thus drafting McD.
Blame Dubas for not tanking that year and decide to tank the following year.

By the way, I was not serious.

 

[ToneDog]

I blame it on Bozak scoring a first period hat trick and also scoring goals toward the end of the season with McD as the price on draft day. If it weren’t for those Bozak goals, the Leafs would had less points and finished 3rd last thus drafting McD.
Blame Dubas for not tanking that year and decide to tank the following year.

By the way, I was not serious.

Hey we ended up with Marner and he is better than McDavid and cheaper.

 

[francis246]

I remember posting this way back and people pretty much laughed in my face. But I’m still of the belief that Dubas could very well end up walking away from the job for another opportunity. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility. I could see a scenario where they do get out of the first round and Pittsburgh offers him the president role and he walks. Or if the job in St. Louis opens up, he could go there.

He’s going to be highly sought after. I think if he ends up leaving it’ll be a mistake by Toronto. Simply because there really isn’t any other GM’s out there that are good lol. Maybe Doug Armstrong if he gets let go. But that’s about it.

 

[Gabriel426]

Hey we ended up with Marner and he is better than McDavid and cheaper.

Can I just agree with the cheaper part, lol.

 

[Gabriel426]

I remember posting this way back and people pretty much laughed in my face. But I’m still of the belief that Dubas could very well end up walking away from the job for another opportunity. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility. I could see a scenario where they do get out of the first round and Pittsburgh offers him the president role and he walks. Or if the job in St. Louis opens up, he could go there.

He’s going to be highly sought after. I think if he ends up leaving it’ll be a mistake by Toronto. Simply because there really isn’t any other GM’s out there that are good lol. Maybe Doug Armstrong if he gets let go. But that’s about it.

I don’t think Dubas will leave unless Leafs let him.
Even though Dubas learnt a lot and seems to be building the team the right way, any GM still needs players to build the team around. I mentioned on another thread, current Pens reminds me of the Nucks on the Sedins last legs, can’t move legends and can’t tank either. Both teams are hoping their legends still got some gas in the tank if they make the playoffs. Don’t see why Dubas wants that situation esp since the owners fired Burke and company after ONE season. What’s to say they won’t do that next year if they miss the playoffs.
Blues is interesting but unless they draft Bedard, don’t think Dubas is heading there.

 

[francis246]

I don’t think Dubas will leave unless Leafs let him.
Even though Dubas learnt a lot and seems to be building the team the right way, any GM still needs players to build the team around. I mentioned on another thread, current Pens reminds me of the Nucks on the Sedins last legs, can’t move legends and can’t tank either. Both teams are hoping their legends still got some gas in the tank if they make the playoffs. Don’t see why Dubas wants that situation esp since the owners fired Burke and company after ONE season. What’s to say they won’t do that next year if they miss the playoffs.
Blues is interesting but unless they draft Bedard, don’t think Dubas is heading there.

Why does everyone think Kyle is so attached to the leafs? This isn’t fantasy hockey. This is real life. He’s gotta do what’s best for him. Toronto and the Maple Leafs organization isn’t the only place to be employed.

If this team shits the bed after all the moves he’s made why would he go back to it? I think this season is 100% on the players now. Kyle has upgraded this team, he’s given them a new coach. He gave them big contracts, what else does he have to do? These players are good players but if they show you they can’t win, what’s the point? Does he want his legacy as a GM to forever be attached to players who can’t win when it matters? That has to be a consideration for him. Also, At some point people want a fresh start somewhere else.

I think Kyle is open to every possibility. Especially given the fact that he wanted to stay and the leafs basically said nah we’re good we’ll wait. Now they might lose a good young and up and coming GM. Instead of just locking him up.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I think Kyle is open to every possibility. Especially given the fact that he wanted to stay and the leafs basically said nah we’re good we’ll wait. Now they might lose a good young and up and coming GM. Instead of just locking him up.

I don't think Dubas would leave but I also don't get why they didn't just give him an extension. Its not like it would preclude them from firing him at any point. It's relatively rare for a coach or GM to work on an expiring deal.

 

[ToneDog]

I don't think Dubas would leave but I also don't get why they didn't just give him an extension. Its not like it would preclude them from firing him at any point. It's relatively rare for a coach or GM to work on an expiring deal.

Too late in the game to extend him. It should have been done in the offseason or before the end of 2022. They now have to let it play out IMO.

 

[Gabriel426]

Why does everyone think Kyle is so attached to the leafs? This isn’t fantasy hockey. This is real life. He’s gotta do what’s best for him. Toronto and the Maple Leafs organization isn’t the only place to be employed.

If this team shits the bed after all the moves he’s made why would he go back to it? I think this season is 100% on the players now. Kyle has upgraded this team, he’s given them a new coach. He gave them big contracts, what else does he have to do? These players are good players but if they show you they can’t win, what’s the point? Does he want his legacy as a GM to forever be attached to players who can’t win when it matters? That has to be a consideration for him. Also, At some point people want a fresh start somewhere else.

I think Kyle is open to every possibility. Especially given the fact that he wanted to stay and the leafs basically said nah we’re good we’ll wait. Now they might lose a good young and up and coming GM. Instead of just locking him up.

Didn’t I wrote, Kyle will leave if the Leafs don’t want him. Like if the options are Blues, Leafs and Pens. I am pretty sure Kyle won’t take the other two over Leafs. I don’t think any GMs would.
Ofcourse if the Leafs offer was like 50% less than the other two, it shows Leafs didn’t want Kyle as badly as them.
Also, Leafs got options too.

I don’t think Kyle and MLSE are married to each other.

 

[notbias]

Food for thought.

The previous Leafs GM that Dubas replaced has won 8 playoff rounds gone to the final 4 twice in 2020 & 2021, and been named Exec of the year twice during these past 4 seasons.

For Dubas to match that same # of playoff round success of 8, he would have to win back to back Stanley Cups and that would only tie him. (and as long as the former GM didn't win another round in the next upcoming 2 years himself).

Former Leafs coach Mike Babcock (fired for failing to get the Leafs past round #1) & who has been sitting on couch the past 4 years has as many playoff round wins as Dubas does under his new handpicked coach Keefe. Zero.

That just demonstrates how painfully little Dubas has achieved as GM .. Nothing really !!!

I like the position the Leafs board of directors appears to have put the Leafs GM & coach management staff in, and its either put up this year and get out of the way.

Its a WIN WIN for Leaf Nation !!

This is so silly... the previous GM didn't win either.

Playoff success is judged on rounds won and not cups? News to me.

"Look look, Lou did something elsewhere but couldn't do anything here"

Food for thought.

If you bold text, it sometimes gives people the impression that there is a valid argument.

I stand corrected but my point stands. The final results for the season has taken a step back

Curious to see the difference in man games lost, it feels like there were A LOT more injuries this year.

 

[francis246]

Didn’t I wrote, Kyle will leave if the Leafs don’t want him. Like if the options are Blues, Leafs and Pens. I am pretty sure Kyle won’t take the other two over Leafs. I don’t think any GMs would.
Ofcourse if the Leafs offer was like 50% less than the other two, it shows Leafs didn’t want Kyle as badly as them.
Also, Leafs got options too.

I don’t think Kyle and MLSE are married to each other.

Why does the narrative have to be if MLSE doesn’t want him? What if Kyle wants to leave because Kyle wants a new challenge? Or because he’s going to get promoted to a better position.

Maybe at the beginning of the year id agree with you. But now, if Kyle leaves it may not be because MLSE didn’t want him. It could just be Kyle is ready for a new chapter in his career. Which isn’t an absurd thought.

Honestly I think Kyle has more leverage than MLSE thinks and a lot of posters think. At the end of the day they may come to regret not just extending him.

 

[Racer88]

I'm not really sure taking a step back 4 points off the franchise record point total we had last year to still be one of the most dominant teams in the league is a major cause for concern... Especially considering that it was while experiencing significant injury impacts, including the maybe permanent loss of one of our best defensemen.

Overall, we may have had a slightly worse season, but I think after factoring in our deadline additions, this is the best team we've had in this era going into the playoffs.

Time will tell. I hope you are right but until I actually see improvement I have very little faith in what Dubas has put together

This is so silly... the previous GM didn't win either.

Playoff success is judged on rounds won and not cups? News to me.

"Look look, Lou did something elsewhere but couldn't do anything here"

Food for thought.

If you bold text, it sometimes gives people the impression that there is a valid argument.



Curious to see the difference in man games lost, it feels like there were A LOT more injuries this year.

Any team that trades for Murray is going to be near the top in man games lost