Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[Rants Mulliniks]

Since when are "kids" 25/26 year old players, making 10+ million contracts?

Or just a bad joke on your part that's fallen completely flat on its face, missed the mark, etc.

Because that's what it's been thus far with the Leafs...

Hope you realize that.

Anyone under 40 is still learning to walk.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

This is so true. We keep hearing about how much better he has made them yet the results stay the same
in fact we have 10 less points then last year

I wonder where we would have been a couple years ago had we lost all the players we did early on in the season? Anyone remember the results when Toronto was leading the league in man games lost to player impact?

 

[DarkKnight]

He is just starting to his his stride as a GM.

I’d agree with that.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Re-sign him asap.

 

[crump]

The depth moves he made this year seem to be the right ones. It remains to be seen of course. Question I have is why did it take 3 years to figure it out.

 

[ToneDog]

How many GM's of supposed contenders have a whopping 0 playoff series wins to their names? Heck, how many have even 1 or fewer? I'm guessing not many.

And then how many of those guys would be brought back for a 5th season after 4 years of playoff failure?

If Pittsburgh/Fenway is dumb enough to want Dubas, go for it. I just hope it's MLSE making that decision for Dubas.

If Kyle gets the Pens job, we can trade him Murray along with a 7th for a $1.

 

[ToneDog]

The depth moves he made this year seem to be the right ones. It remains to be seen of course. Question I have is why did it take 3 years to figure it out.

I believe he was given the keys May 1, 2018 so it took more than 3 years. We also have no idea what role Shanny played.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

The reality is that while Dubas has been far from perfect....there is a very real possibility that any replacement of him is like significantly worse. He has objectively improved the team year over year. He leaves he walks into a new job when he wants one. I just hope we don't "over correct" and bring some dinosaur in that really f***s everything up. Hopefully we win and Dubas sticks around for a while yet though.

 

[Dreakmur]

The reality is that while Dubas has been far from perfect....there is a very real possibility that any replacement of him is like significantly worse. He has objectively improved the team year over year. He leaves he walks into a new job when he wants one. I just hope we don't "over correct" and bring some dinosaur in that really f***s everything up. Hopefully we win and Dubas sticks around for a while yet though.

If we lose, I’d still be ok with Dubas staying, since he has grown as a GM… but he would have to fire Keefe and shake up the core.

 

[ToneDog]

The reality is that while Dubas has been far from perfect....there is a very real possibility that any replacement of him is like significantly worse. He has objectively improved the team year over year. He leaves he walks into a new job when he wants one. I just hope we don't "over correct" and bring some dinosaur in that really f***s everything up. Hopefully we win and Dubas sticks around for a while yet though.

Does not have to be a dino. Look at what Guerin has done in Minny, Drury in NY, Fitzgerald in NJ.

If we lose, I’d still be ok with Dubas staying, since he has grown as a GM… but he would have to fire Keefe and shake up the core.

You want Kyle shaking up the core ?? Yikes.

 

[Dreakmur]

You want Kyle shaking up the core ?? Yikes.

If he was willing to do it, yes.

I don’t think he would be. I also don’t think he would fire Keefe under any circumstances.

 

[ACC1224]

The depth moves he made this year seem to be the right ones. It remains to be seen of course. Question I have is why did it take 3 years to figure it out.

All part of the plan.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

The depth moves he made this year seem to be the right ones. It remains to be seen of course. Question I have is why did it take 3 years to figure it out.

There are potential built in assumptions within. Who was available? What was the cost? People often frame this like you are at a grocery store when that isn’t the case. One thing Dubas has done well is hanging on to the pieces most would deem key to long term success. So far Sandin is probably the first piece that hasn’t seemingly fit the pattern.

 

[Rude Dog]

Does not have to be a dino. Look at what Guerin has done in Minny, Drury in NY, Fitzgerald in NJ.


You want Kyle shaking up the core ?? Yikes.

And the Leafs are ahead or just behind these star GMs. So where is the upgrade?

 

[ACC1224]

And the Leafs are ahead or just behind these star GMs. So where is the upgrade?

I don’t think you just rank them based on the standings but more on the expectations.
Did the teams overachieve or underperform?

 

[notbias]

Does not have to be a dino. Look at what Guerin has done in Minny, Drury in NY, Fitzgerald in NJ.

Guerin has won 0 rounds.

Fitzgerald has won 0 rounds.

Drury has done well.

 

[Dekes For Days]

With Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Rielly off their ELCs and currently costing a combined 29.3m more than they did in 2017-2018, these are the differences in the rest of the playoff rosters (13F + 7D + 2G) in 2017-2018 and 2022-2023:

Kadri -> Tavares
JVR -> O'Rielly
Hyman -> Bunting
Marleau -> Jarnkrok
Bozak -> Kerfoot
Brown -> Kampf
Johnsson -> Knies
Kapanen -> Acciari
Plekanec -> Lafferty
Komarov -> ZAR

Gardiner -> McCabe
Hainsey -> Brodie
Dermott -> Giordano
Zaitsev -> Holl
Polak -> Schenn
Carrick -> Liljegren

Andersen -> Samsonov
McElhinney -> Woll

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I don’t think you just rank them based on the standings but more on the expectations.
Did the teams overachieve or underperform?

Two of three have zero playoff rounds won. One has two rounds won, immediately after being hired, so you look at roster pre and post.

 

[wingman75]

If he was willing to do it, yes.

I don’t think he would be. I also don’t think he would fire Keefe under any circumstances.

I think that is exactly what will determine if he is back or not. If by chance they go out in round 1 again, the question from Shanahan to Dubas is "are you willing to make changes to the core?". If Dubas answers no, he is not coming back, if he answers yes, he gets an extension. Simple as that for me.

Assuming if they make it past round one, he gets and extension.

 

[saltming]

It would be stupid to let him go

 

[Mess]

This is so true. We keep hearing about how much better he has made them yet the results stay the same
in fact we have 10 less points then last year

The Dubas inherited 2017-18 Leafs [Backstopped by Freddy Andersen/McElhinney] finished with 49 wins and 105 points & finished 6th overall and faced Boston in round #1 of the playoffs and lost in game #7

vs.

The 2021-22 Leafs [Backstopped by Campbell/Mrazek] finished with 54 wins & 115 points & finished 4th overall and faced TB with home ice in round #1 of the playoffs and lost in game #7.
while
The 2022-23 Leafs [Backstopped by Samsonov/Murray] finished with 50 wins 111 points and finished 4th overall and will face TB with home ice in round #1 of the playoffs.

The 3 Amigo's which lead this team (Matthews, Marner & Nylander) all inherited by Dubas, were only teenagers in 2017-18 and even with their maturation into players now in their prime the team results don't change for the GM.

Unless the Leafs playoff results this year are different with a team statistically that wasn't even as strong as last years, and is only marginally better [+1 win & +6 points] then the inherited one 5 years ago that appears to be stuck in quicksand going nowhere, then why would you extend GM Dubas?

 

[rocketman588]

If we lose in round one I'd maybe consider keeping him but he'd have to be willing to fire Keef, hire someone with experience and then let him get what he would need for the roster.

It feels like the lineups are too much of a joint decision sometimes the 11/7 thing after setting up the marlies the same way for example.

I think he needs a counter voice to him instead of what seems to be a lot of yesmen like currently

 

[rocketman588]

This is so true. We keep hearing about how much better he has made them yet the results stay the same
in fact we have 10 less points then last year

There was always going to be a bit of a points correction solely because of how bad the middle and bottom were last year. We've done pretty well considering

Which is why the "points record" thing was stupid

We are kinda what we've always been in this era

4/8th in the league, this year I think we're built better for the playoffs however

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Does not have to be a dino. Look at what Guerin has done in Minny, Drury in NY, Fitzgerald in NJ.


You want Kyle shaking up the core ?? Yikes.

Right...that would be great to fire him and replace him with a great GM. I have my doubts that would happen. I guess I am just not sure the risk is worth the reward.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

If the Leafs lose in round one, all 3 are gone. It should start with Shanahan.

If the Leafs can't resign Matthews, then for sure Shanahan and Dubas are gone.