Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[Teeder Keon]

I’m just not feeling it at all and I’m getting cold feet with Kerfoot
Seriously though I’m perplexed and disappointed at the same time ,
I really thought we were getting a guy that was a spark plug in your face water bug type of player
It’s like getting a firecracker that is a dud

 

[Stephen]

I’m just not feeling it at all and I’m getting cold feet with Kerfoot
Seriously though I’m perplexed and disappointed at the same time ,
I really thought we were getting a guy that was a spark plug in your face water bug type of player
It’s like getting a firecracker that is a dud

We are getting that player in Kerfoot every game he plays. This is coming from someone who was ready to write him off as a cap casualty the moment he got here. He’s been solid.

 

[Teeder Keon]

We are getting that player in Kerfoot every game he plays. This is coming from someone who was ready to write him off as a cap casualty the moment he got here. He’s been solid.

Sorry , we are very far apart on this assessment of this player
I really hope your right ...
We will see

 

[Stephen]

Sorry , we are very far apart on this assessment of this player
I really hope your right ...
We will see

Just watch the games. He rags the puck, skates well and goes into danger areas for a small guy. He’s not producing much but he’s also a cheap 3C. Not sure what the expectation levels are.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Just watch the games. He rags the puck, skates well and goes into danger areas for a small guy. He’s not producing much but he’s also a cheap 3C. Not sure what the expectation levels are.

Sorry
Just don’t see it at all
But I really hope your right
We will see as the season goes
But
Just ain’t feeling that vibe at all brotha
GLG

 

[Stephen]

Getting increasingly sick of this Dubas experiment. It’s almost like they need to spend the next year and a half undoing all of his additions since the summer. What a terrible direction they’re headed in after a couple of great building years with Lamoriello.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Getting increasingly sick of this Dubas experiment. It’s almost like they need to spend the next year and a half undoing all of his additions since the summer. What a terrible direction they’re headed in after a couple of great building years with Lamoriello.

I'm not thrilled with Dubas but Lou traded 2nd round picks for 20 game 4th line C's, didn't address the D, signed PM for 3 years knowing the third would cause all kinds of problems, signed Zaitsev to a terrible long-term contract after 1 year in the NHL, and then went to the isles and promptly signed Komarov to a 4 year deal. Not sure why people view him as some kind of genius

 

[Menzinger]

I'm not thrilled with Dubas but Lou traded 2nd round picks for 20 game 4th line C's, didn't address the D, signed PM for 3 years knowing the third would cause all kinds of problems, signed Zaitsev to a terrible long-term contract after 1 year in the NHL, and then went to the isles and promptly signed Komarov to a 4 year deal. Not sure why people view him as some kind of genius

Fair post.

I think somen folks can be a bit overly critical of Lou (like i think he made some very good moves his first year), some folks do tend to look back with rose colored glasses a bit. There were skme definte persistsnt issues over his time - no season long solutuon for 4c, or not doing anything substantial to fix the D.

 

[Stephen]

I'm not thrilled with Dubas but Lou traded 2nd round picks for 20 game 4th line C's, didn't address the D, signed PM for 3 years knowing the third would cause all kinds of problems, signed Zaitsev to a terrible long-term contract after 1 year in the NHL, and then went to the isles and promptly signed Komarov to a 4 year deal. Not sure why people view him as some kind of genius

Oh I agree. I think there were some signs that Lou’s way of doing business would have potentially been difficult to mesh with the young core, his budget management, old school ways etc. His handling of some lesser assets and free agent deals were not optimal...

But just thinking about the days when we were drafting Matthews and trading a late first rounder for Freddy Andersen vs the utter garbage acquisitions Dubas has put together. It’s like watching a hockey team vs a video game.

 

[4thline]

Getting increasingly sick of this Dubas experiment. It’s almost like they need to spend the next year and a half undoing all of his additions since the summer. What a terrible direction they’re headed in after a couple of great building years with Lamoriello.

It's almost like they did what they could to slap a playoff team together without doing to much damage to long term assets

 

[glue]

I think the biggest issue with what Dubas has built with this top heavy team is that our top players are not consistent game in and game out at this stage of their careers (they better get their fast though given the market they play in). He paid them too much, too soon. The big 4 have some great games, but never all of them at the same time and in some cases like yesterdays game Marner/JT great, Matty/Nylander awful. I don't think it has anything to do with Depth or lack of toughness etc. I think our 'star' players seem to fold under pressure a bit. Like some have pointed out, they don't 'hate to lose'. Their 'will' needs to complement the 'skill', thats what differentiates other teams top players and ours. Dubas built this team expecting those guys to put this team on their back, but so far they have not really been able to do so.

 

[MyBudJT]

I'm not thrilled with Dubas but Lou traded 2nd round picks for 20 game 4th line C's, didn't address the D, signed PM for 3 years knowing the third would cause all kinds of problems, signed Zaitsev to a terrible long-term contract after 1 year in the NHL, and then went to the isles and promptly signed Komarov to a 4 year deal. Not sure why people view him as some kind of genius

2018-2020:
TOR: 61-42-12 (0.583 P%)
NYI: 69-34-9 (.656 P%)

2016-2018
TOR: 89-59-24 (0.610 P%)
NYI: 76-66-22 (0.530 P%)


Toronto's record went down 0.027% when Lamoriello left.
New York's record went up 0.126% when Lamoriello arrived.

Lamoriello is already in the HHOF. Yeah, he's an elite GM, and we're missing him.

 

[Jozay]

Last 12 months have not been kind to Dubas.

Lou was not the one though. He did exactly nothing when it came to addressing our defense. And that was when he had the benefit of the expansion draft. How he couldnt land a guy like Schmidt is beyond me. Clearly he preferred trading 2nd picks for low impact 4th line centers.

There was some good and bad with Lou (like all gm's) but him not even getting one dman here who couldve been a long term piece was a huge fail.

 

[Dekes For Days]

2018-2020:
TOR: 61-42-12 (0.583 P%)
NYI: 69-34-9 (.656 P%)

2016-2018
TOR: 89-59-24 (0.610 P%)
NYI: 76-66-22 (0.530 P%)

Toronto's record went down 0.027% when Lamoriello left.
New York's record went up 0.126% when Lamoriello arrived.

Lamoriello is already in the HHOF. Yeah, he's an elite GM, and we're missing him.

The actual difference is not Lou, it's that their team save percentage has been insanely lucky since.

Team save percentage:

2018-2020 NYI: 0.925 (1st)
2016-2018 NYI: 0.904 (27th)

And for the record, their scoring chances against since 2018 are 25th best in the league, and high danger chances against are 22nd best, so it's not like it's all the team just being so gosh darn amazing defensively.

 

[Stephen]

I think the biggest issue with what Dubas has built with this top heavy team is that our top players are not consistent game in and game out at this stage of their careers (they better get their fast though given the market they play in). He paid them too much, too soon. The big 4 have some great games, but never all of them at the same time and in some cases like yesterdays game Marner/JT great, Matty/Nylander awful. I don't think it has anything to do with Depth or lack of toughness etc. I think our 'star' players seem to fold under pressure a bit. Like some have pointed out, they don't 'hate to lose'. Their 'will' needs to complement the 'skill', thats what differentiates other teams top players and ours. Dubas built this team expecting those guys to put this team on their back, but so far they have not really been able to do so.

Dubas has willfully ignored many factors to team building and those flaws consistently plague the team. Doesn’t take a pair of tortoise shell glasses to see that.

 

[DarkKnight]

The actual difference is not Lou, it's that their team save percentage has been insanely lucky since.

Team save percentage:

2018-2020 NYI: 0.925 (1st)
2016-2018 NYI: 0.904 (27th)

And for the record, their scoring chances against since 2018 are 25th best in the league, and high danger chances against are 22nd best, so it's not like it's all the team just being so gosh darn amazing defensively.

So what it is then lol? You’re lost in spread sheets.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Getting increasingly sick of this Dubas experiment. It’s almost like they need to spend the next year and a half undoing all of his additions since the summer. What a terrible direction they’re headed in after a couple of great building years with Lamoriello.

And yet if Dubas did nothing - kept Marleau which is impossible without retaining his hit, not signing Tavares, not making the Kadri-Barrie swap, you and a whole ton of other people would be saying 'Oh! He hasn't made a big move to take us to the next level!'

Marleau was the great Lou's mistake. Sure he added some cachet but at the end of the day there was really no need for him.

The Kadri trade in particular is looking like a loss, but at least he rolled the dice, and Kadri kind of brought it on himself with the back to back suspensions.

The 2020 UFA class includes our own Muzzin and Barrie (keep Muzzin if you can get him for less than 5.5, Barrie will want 7.5+ at max available term so off you go) as well as Pietrangelo (pipe dream), Krug, Brodie, Vatanen, Gudas, Tanev, Edmundson, Shattenkirk, Hamonic, Braun and Dillon, in addition to adding internally at least one of Sandin and Liljegren (I dangle Dermott + Johnsson for either a legit top line LW or a #3 RD).

Rielly Gudas (4)
Muzzin (5.5) Vatanen (5)
Sandin Holl
Liljegren

We can even slum it for Shattenkirk on 2 years at 3 for that second pair.

Mitch, Willy and Auston are overpaid, but are they not the type of guys you overpay? If Philly or Vancouver make the playoffs you think there's anyone in their fanbase that likes those Kevin Hayes and Tyler Myers deals in just two years time?

He's done some good and some bad, but as the GM of this team, with this fanbase, he's in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Feels like a lot of people here wish we were still running Tyler Bozak as our #1C.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So what it is then lol?

I told you. Their goalies have been playing out of this world over that time frame. There's obviously something at play that has let them, to some extent, have outcomes that outperform their underlying metrics, and their offense is actually underrated, but even with that in mind, there is a ton of luck at play that will eventually run out.

 

[madmike77]

I will never understand the Barrie trade. I didn’t think he’d be this bad offensively, but he was always a defensive liability in Colorado and I didn’t think he’d be a good fit on a team that already had questionable defence.

On the plus side he’s been bad enough this year that the Leafs could now maybe afford to re-sign him if they wanted to - not that I would.

 

[4thline]

Dubas has willfully ignored many factors to team building and those flaws consistently plague the team.

I don't think he ignores them so much as isn't willing to make massive long term sacrifices to make short term fixes.

 

[DarkKnight]

I told you. Their goalies have been playing out of this world over that time frame. There's obviously something at play that has let them, to some extent, have outcomes that outperform their underlying metrics, and their offense is actually underrated, but even with that in mind, there is a ton of luck at play that will eventually run out.

Luck, over that sample size. Man.

 

[DarkKnight]

I will never understand the Barrie trade. I didn’t think he’d be this bad offensively, but he was always a defensive liability in Colorado and I didn’t think he’d be a good fit on a team that already had questionable defence.

On the plus side he’s been bad enough this year that the Leafs could now maybe afford to re-sign him if they wanted to - not that I would.

Yes, I’m not sure our defensive debates last year specified the need to be softer and more porous.

 

[Stephen]

And yet if Dubas did nothing - kept Marleau which is impossible without retaining his hit, not signing Tavares, not making the Kadri-Barrie swap, you and a whole ton of other people would be saying 'Oh! He hasn't made a big move to take us to the next level!'

Marleau was the great Lou's mistake. Sure he added some cachet but at the end of the day there was really no need for him.

The Kadri trade in particular is looking like a loss, but at least he rolled the dice, and Kadri kind of brought it on himself with the back to back suspensions.

The 2020 UFA class includes our own Muzzin and Barrie (keep Muzzin if you can get him for less than 5.5, Barrie will want 7.5+ at max available term so off you go) as well as Pietrangelo (pipe dream), Krug, Brodie, Vatanen, Gudas, Tanev, Edmundson, Shattenkirk, Hamonic, Braun and Dillon, in addition to adding internally at least one of Sandin and Liljegren (I dangle Dermott + Johnsson for either a legit top line LW or a #3 RD).

Rielly Gudas (4)
Muzzin (5.5) Vatanen (5)
Sandin Holl
Liljegren

We can even slum it for Shattenkirk on 2 years at 3 for that second pair.

Mitch, Willy and Auston are overpaid, but are they not the type of guys you overpay? If Philly or Vancouver make the playoffs you think there's anyone in their fanbase that likes those Kevin Hayes and Tyler Myers deals in just two years time?

He's done some good and some bad, but as the GM of this team, with this fanbase, he's in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Feels like a lot of people here wish we were still running Tyler Bozak as our #1C.

His job is to make the correct moves. Not stand pat or make a bunch of moves that don’t pan out but good thing he tried.

 

[PhiladelphiaKessel]

Just watch the games. He rags the puck, skates well and goes into danger areas for a small guy. He’s not producing much but he’s also a cheap 3C. Not sure what the expectation levels are.

I wouldn’t call 3.5 million / year cheap. Especially when he’s on pace for 26 points. Terrible trade, very easy player to dislike, we should have listened to Av’s fans they watched him for years

 

[All Mod Cons]

I don't think he ignores them so much as isn't willing to make massive long term sacrifices to make short term fixes.

Barrie and Muzzin trade were fairly short term fixes, especially Barrie