Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[TheTotalPackage]

I wouldn’t call 3.5 million / year cheap. Especially when he’s on pace for 26 points. Terrible trade, very easy player to dislike, we should have listened to Av’s fans they watched him for years

Don't really read much anymore of those thinking that Kerfoot is on a similar level as Kadri all the while making a million less. Thank goodness that's been put to bed.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Luck, over that sample size. Man.

Yes, it exists. It being sustained over this type of sample suggests that something else not represented in the stats is at play to some extent, but there is no denying that this is in large part luck, plain and simple. They almost certainly won't continue this pace as we move forward, unless you think the NYI just suddenly found a way to predict when previously average goalies are ready to become superstar vezina candidates.

 

[ACC1224]

I wouldn’t call 3.5 million / year cheap. Especially when he’s on pace for 26 points. Terrible trade, very easy player to dislike, we should have listened to Av’s fans they watched him for years

What would listening to Avalanche fans have changed?

 

[DarkKnight]

Yes, it exists. It being sustained over this type of sample suggests that something else not represented in the stats is at play to some extent, but there is no denying that this is in large part luck, plain and simple. They almost certainly won't continue this pace as we move forward.

So to clarify, Matthews was “dominate” last night and the Isles aren’t really good defensively. These are our two debates.

 

[4thline]

Barrie and Muzzin trade were fairly short term fixes, especially Barrie

But without major long term roster implications.

Barrie was a target of opportunity, a 2.75m dollar top 4 rhd that came attached to a mid/long term 3C replacement.

To really "fix" this team in the defense and supporting forwards for this season would have required making major moves with major lasting repercussions. Is that worth it for one season, our most cap constrained season out of the next 5?

Dubas main fault this offseason was drawing a line on needing to keep KK and AJ. It hurt us this year. But that being said we're set up very well moving forward. The 2020 offseason is pretty much a blank slate of open money and valuable assets to make the team better, where the 2019 offseason was a maze to navigate to clear bad cap and ice a team.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So to clarify, Matthews was “dominate” last night and the Isles aren’t really good defensively. These are our two debates.

I said Matthews was good. I'm not really sure what there is to complain about with Matthews last night, so I'm not sure why you feel this is such an outrageous comment.

And no, the Islanders aren't that great defensively. I mean, they used to be arguably the worst in the league, so they have improved over the last couple years, but they've improved to still be pretty bad. Goaltending changes perception.

 

[Jozay]

I think his biggest mistake was not prioritizing the backup. If the backup is .500, we're having a much different conversation.

Should've found a way to upgrade that position. Especially with all the talk of Freddy playing less.

 

[Menzinger]

I think his biggest mistake was not prioritizing the backup. If the backup is .500, we're having a much different conversation.

Should've found a way to upgrade that position. Especially with all the talk of Freddy playing less.

Imo thats the biggest legit criticsm for Dubas this past offseason.

I get that the Marner negotiations may have tied up the team from making some moves because if cap uncertainty, however, there was room after to make a deal.

Still time to fix that mistake though

 

[ACC1224]

Is lack of secondary scoring going to become a bigger issue than the lack of a competent backup?

 

[Menzinger]

Is lack of secondary scoring going to become a bigger issue than the lack of a competent backup?

At the moment perhaps - though that solution is that the teams 2nd tier guys need to start playing better rather than any type of trade/external move. They should be scoring more

 

[Mess]

I'm not thrilled with Dubas but Lou traded 2nd round picks for 20 game 4th line C's

Something that is said a lot, but there are a couple of things to add here..

1) When your playoff bound and a buyer then draft picks are the currency to build up your team depth in hopes of advancing further. Lou Lam trading for vets Cs in Boyle and Plekanec to fill that 4th line C role and help with the PK. Last year Dubas inactivity to address this exact position was a reason Leafs lost in the 1st round because missing a PK/4th line C..

2) Also Lou Lam generated those 2nd round picks via being a seller and dealing away vets, and also still drafted in the 2nd round all 3 years 2016-2018

Transactions: Acquired 2nd rounders

- Traded • Daniel Winnik • 2016 fifth round pick (#145-Beck Malenstyn) to Capitals for • Brooks Laich • Connor Carrick • 2016 second round pick (#57-Carl Grundstrom) on 2016-02-28

- Traded • Roman Polak • Nick Spaling to Sharks for • Raffi Torres • 2017 second round pick (#50-Alexandre Comtois) • 2018 second round pick (#52-Sean Durzi) on 2016-02-22

- Traded • Dion Phaneuf • Matt Frattin • Casey Bailey • Ryan Rupert • Cody Donaghey to Senators for • Jared Cowen • Colin Greening • Milan Michalek • Tobias Lindberg • 2017 second round pick (#59-Eemeli Rasanen) on 2016-02-09

***** Trading vets Winnik, Polak, Spaling and Phaneuf created 4 X 2nd round picks in addition to Leafs own 2nd rounders. The Leafs still had a 2nd round pick in each round and used the others on Boyle, Plekanec and starting goalie Freddy Andersen *******

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leafs Entry Draft results

2016 Entry Draft
#31 - Yegor Korshkov
#57 - Carl Grundstrom

2017 Entry Draft
#48 - Traded to TB for Brian Boyle
#50 - Traded to Anaheim for Freddy Andersen
#59 - Eemeli Rasanen

2018 Entry Draft
#52 - Sean Durzi
#56 - Traded to Montreal for Tomas Plekanec
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Traded 2nd rounders
Tampa Bay:
Traded • Brian Boyle to Maple Leafs for • Byron Froese • 2017 second round pick (most favorable of Maple Leafs, Senators, Sharks) (#48-Alexander Volkov) on 2017-02-27

Canadiens:
Traded • Tomas Plekanec • Kyle Baun to Maple Leafs for • Rinat Valiev • Kerby Rychel • 2018 second round pick (#56-Jacob Olofsson) on 2018-02-25

Anaheim:
Traded • 2016 first round pick (#30-Sam Steel) • 2017 second round pick (middle pick of Maple Leafs, Senators, Sharks) (#50-Alexandre Comtois) to Ducks for Frederik Andersen • on 2016-06-20

** Leaf fans should really view this as trading Polak & Spaling to SJ for 2 X 2nd rounders (2017+2018) and then dealing those picks for Boyle and Plekanec. So its essentially Polak+Spaling for Boyle+Plekanec. No harm no foul. !!!!

Note: Dubas traded Leafs 1st in 2019 + 2016 2nd (#57 - Carl Grundstrom) + 2018 2nd (#52 - Sean Durzi) for Jake Muzzin (pending UFA).

What happens if Muzz walks and Leafs lose 1 X 1st and 2 X 2nd rounders for a 1 year rental? That is mortgaging the future for the present and not replenishing your draft picks.

 

[Stephen]

That’s why they need to move on from all their UFAs as we continue to stink and get closer to the trade deadline.

 

[ACC1224]

At the moment perhaps - though that solution is that the teams 2nd tier guys need to start playing better rather than any type of trade/external move. They should be scoring more

and the Backup should be saving the puck more, yet here we are.

 

[Menzinger]

and the Backup should be saving the puck more, yet here we are.

Except there is a difference - Hutch has a history of being medicore (thpugh admittedly not this bad), while a lotnof thr Leafs 2nd tier guys have proven they can perform better than this as per their play in the recent past

 

[Mess]

Is lack of secondary scoring going to become a bigger issue than the lack of a competent backup?

Both

The lack of a competent backup goalie is going to be a huge problem as last season playoff teams all got 20 or more points from their backups, our Leafs were ranked last of all playoff teams when their backups Sparks/Hutch earned 21 points... Leafs current backups have 1 point 0-7-1 record.

However the depth secondary scoring issue is the direct impact of paying Matthews, Marner and Tavares $11 mil each AAV & Nylander = 1/2 your Cap.

When hockey insiders claim it will be hard to be Cup competitive having 3 of the highest Cap players on 1 team, this is exactly the point their making, and that Leafs secondary scoring when you fill your roster with a bunch of $1 mil or less players to be cap compliant will struggle for wins when the big $$ players don't impact the game.

The ability to surround your stars with enough depth/secondary offense and defense is directly tied to your cap management and NO team is in a situation like the Leafs due to spending habits by Dubas.

 

[4thline]

** Leaf fans should really view this as trading Polak & Spaling to SJ for 2 X 2nd rounders (2017+2018) and then dealing those picks for Boyle and Plekanec. So its essentially Polak+Spaling for Boyle+Plekanec. No harm no foul. !!!!

Lol this is worst kind of logical mindf***ery.

"He got the benefit of accumulating assets during a rebuild, so it doesn't matter that they were squandered!"

 

[flying v 604]

Just watch the games. He rags the puck, skates well and goes into danger areas for a small guy. He’s not producing much but he’s also a cheap 3C. Not sure what the expectation levels are.

3.5 mill isn't all that cheap. Kari makes what 4 something and is gritty and puts up points while be good on D. The trade was is turning into a disaster and only the biggest Dubas supporters will disagree. Kadri Rosen and a 3rd for Kerfoot is horrendous. Many Avs fans and fans of teams in the Pacific warned leaf nation about him but you guys called us trolls and haters. Dubas should be held responsible for the fact that he traded for Barrie knowing full well that he thrived in an Avs system that was built for his style. He only needed to look at previous seasons where Barrie was a total trainwreck that Sakic literally tried to trade him 3 years ago for Ben Fricken Hutton after that epic gomg show of a season he and Duchene had. Bednar is a hell of a coach who was able to get the Best out of Barrie but everyone in the West knew Barrie was a one dimensional pp specialist that often left you frustrated. Sakic schooled Dubas and it along with so many terrible decisions should cost him his job.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

We're getting to the point where Dubas needs to pick a direction to take the team this year, and it's very possible that selling off UFAs and drafting high is our best bet. Playoffs are still a realistic possibility, but pretty far from a guarantee. The worst case scenario would be losing our pick and missing the playoffs, and trading futures to ensure a playoff berth may be unpalatable to some. So we'll see where Dubas goes from here

 

[FreeBird]

So that it seems possible we miss the playoffs what can we get for our UFA's, Muzzin 1st rounder, Barrie 1st rounder, CECI a 2d rounder, who else can we Barter away.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Don't really read much anymore of those thinking that Kerfoot is on a similar level as Kadri all the while making a million less. Thank goodness that's been put to bed.

Kerfoot is a real 3c and has the legs for this System. He has enough handles and enough of a scoring touch to NOT cause us to facepalm constantly like we do with Reilly, Ceci and Barrie.

Kadri is a 2c. We knew that. But...

We also knew that last Season, for whatever reason, Kadri absolutely sucked. Missed passes, misread plays, hit most posts in the NHL last season ( Probably), 2 steps behind on every play. A complete disaster leaving us with 2 top lines and not 3.

Recency Bias combined with Playoff temper made this trade fair.

His performance in Colorado is 3 things.
1. A legit top western team with Solid D, Solid skilled offense, and a return to 2C duties.

2. Being traded invigorated his focus. It blindsided him. His honeymoon drunken haze vanished.

3. His coach isnt an idiot like Babcock.

 

[Mess]

Lol this is worst kind of logical mind****ery.

"He got the benefit of accumulating assets during a rebuild, so it doesn't matter that they were squandered!"

Are we better off when Dubas lets JVR, Bozak, Komarov, Gardiner etc etc all walk for nothing, and then turns around and trade 1st 2019 + 2 X former 2nds (Grundstrom + Durzi) for Muzz who might be a 1 year rental as pending UFA? If Dubas had acquired excess picks for JVR and Gardiner and then dealt those picks for Muzz the damage is offset of picks in vs picks out.

I personally can see the benefit of dealing vets for picks and then using those excess picks acquired to buy rental players to build up your Cup chances and not hurting your future, because its like playing with house or found money.

 

[Duffman955]

Poor cap management

Poorly constructed team

Inability to support young players with glue peices

Absolute 0 understanding of how to build a defense

Poor communication with coaching

Steadily declining results.



What exactly has Dubas done well?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Poor cap management

Poorly constructed team

Inability to support young players with glue peices

Absolute 0 understanding of how to build a defense

Poor communication with coaching

Steadily declining results.



What exactly has Dubas done well?

He said we can and we will and he accomplished that. He's basically the best GM of all time!

 

[4thline]

Are we better off when Dubas lets JVR, Bozak, Komarov, Gardiner etc etc all walk for nothing, and then turns around and trade 1st 2019 + 2 X former 2nds (Grundstrom + Durzi) for Muzz who might be a 1 year rental as pending UFA? If Dubas had acquired excess picks for JVR and Gardiner and then dealt those picks for Muzz the damage is offset of picks in vs picks out.

I personally can see the benefit of dealing vets for picks and then using those excess picks acquired to buy rental players to build up your Cup chances and not hurting your future, because its like playing with house or found money.

Absolute f***ing nonsense.

Fact based nonsense
JVR Bozak and Komarov were all held through their last deadline with the team by Lou, not Dubas.
The picks Lou squandered came from previous years.

Principle based nonsense
The bolded makes literally zero sense. So you want us to sell off our expiring vets to get picks to spend picks to get someone elses expiring veteran players? That's treading water. It's also not what happened with Lou. See "Fact based nonsense"

Some years you're in a position to be a buyer. Some you're in a position to be a seller. Lou sold when we were a seller, held + bought (not well in retrospect) when we were in a position to be a buyer.

 

[Bomber0104]

Poor cap management

Poorly constructed team

Inability to support young players with glue peices

Absolute 0 understanding of how to build a defense

Poor communication with coaching

Steadily declining results.



What exactly has Dubas done well?

Good question.

But since we can't really answer that, we better talk about how that jerk Lou traded 2nd round picks for deadline acquisitions.

I guess that's supposed to make us feel better about Dubas?