Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[Ziggdiezan]

I just think its odd that people can look at Barrie - a guy whose been a top pair to top 4 guy level his entire career and argue hes secretly been garbage the entire time lol.

One of the main things I think it showed was that Barrie needs to be used in a very particular way to get the best out of him.

He has had his best success playing on a sheltered 2nd pairing that gets a ton of offensive starts behind a good shutdown pairing (EJ for the Avs). On the leafs he was playing with the teams best shutdown defender and being asked to shutdown other teams top 6 players.

Didnt make sense at all and he has looked much better when put into a more offensive role with more freedom.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Read the whole sentence.

Oh I did, you should read my response.

I've now asked you several times to show me where I said that we should ignore our performance under Keefe, that is was "a blip" as you say. You refuse to do so (because I never said it) and yet you keep saying I did. There doesn't seem to be any point in continuing this nonsense. You and Pookie are now the only two posters who have just made up stuff that I never said and keep repeating it despite being called out on it. Enjoy the fine company I guess, I'm done here.

 

[Teeder Keon]

One of the main things I think it showed was that Barrie needs to be used in a very particular way to get the best out of him.

He has had his best success playing on a sheltered 2nd pairing that gets a ton of offensive starts behind a good shutdown pairing (EJ for the Avs). On the leafs he was playing with the teams best shutdown defender and being asked to shutdown other teams top 6 players.

Didnt make sense at all and he has looked much better when put into a more offensive role with more freedom.

A coach , a parent , a person in leadership all have to place people in positions to succeed

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Barrie was absolute trash for the first part of the season, worst D man by a country mile... some of that does lie at Babcock’s feet, but his inability to win any board battles or clear the net, that **** wasn’t coaching. Offensively, he’s always been dynamic and Keefe has given him free reign, played to his strength. Keefe is also sheltering him defensively, which was talked about extensively on Sportnet yesterday, basically what I’ve said, Keefe is putting him in a position to succeed, while recognizing his weaknesses. Some of you guys are black and white with everything, fact is Barrie has been “just okay” and apart from a nice uptick, that’s about it.

Everything Kyle does is amazing, we get it. Also beyond boring to discuss anything, already know the answer before a question. What’s the point? It’s just partisanship.

I support how Keefe is using him, particularly with Reilly, an offensive tandem...Muzzin and Ceci doing the grunt work in our end. Work with what you got.

Even hockey boards aren't safe any more from insane partisanship. It went from Lou people vs Dubas people, to Babcock vs Dubas people and now finally to what it really is, Dubas people vs Anti-Dubas people.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

A coach , a parent , a person in leadership all have to place people in positions to succeed

Some deep stuff lol

 

[zeke]

Oh I did, you should read my response.

I've now asked you several times to show me where I said that we should ignore our performance under Keefe, that is was "a blip" as you say. You refuse to do so (because I never said it) and yet you keep saying I did. There doesn't seem to be any point in continuing this nonsense. You and Pookie are now the only two posters who have just made up stuff that I never said and keep repeating it despite being called out on it. Enjoy the fine company I guess, I'm done here.

Again.

Neither of us were ignoring anything.

You accused me of ignoring. I didn't accuse you of anything.

As is clear from that sentence you keep cutting in half for some reason.

 

[Menzinger]

There are always "parts that can be moved". Wouldn't it be better though if we had our stars signed at 3 million less in total and could spend that money without being forced to move anyone?

Sure, id prefer it if a couple guys on the team had been able to sign for a bit cheaper. But i don't see it ad a major problem

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sure, id prefer it if a couple guys on the team had been able to sign for a bit cheaper. But i don't see it ad a major problem

It could be worse, no doubt about it. But then I guess you could always say that.

 

[moon111]

To me, Dubas has done nothing but easy moves right now.
Cliff Fletcher traded Clark for Sundin. He asked Pat Burns about Potvin and dealt Grant Fuhr for Dave Andreychuk.
Right now, IMHO, Dubas needs to do something hypothetically like ask Keefe if Sandin is ready, then turn around and trade
Rielly and Johnsson for Taylor Hall and a 1st round pick. Have Sandin, Hall work out, and the draft pick end up being
top-notch as well. I'm just making this up, but if there was an opportunity which involved risk, just don't see Dubas
pulling the trigger. Kyle's level of cunning is looking at a spreadsheet and safely watch young players develop.

 

[Dough72]

By getting top PP time and a healthy dose of offensive zone starts. You know, the things Babcock didn't give Barrie.

Keefe moved Barrie into those situations and he scored a goal in each of the first three games like that. Do you think that was a coincidence and situations don't matter?

yeah obviously, and I'm not disagreeing about using him more that way or giving him a do-over, I'm just disagreeing with the idea he was a poor little unfortunate and it was all the coaching staffs fault. I mean they giftwrapped him the 2nd pp unit he just sucked at it. Like he sucked whenever he freelanced. Or did anything else really. I think he was just a guy in a slump. Everyone seems to agree Babcock didn't cherrypick offensive faceoffs for his players like other coaches, yet Reilly still put up big seasons, Gardiner put up big seasons, and I think Muzzin was putting up big points, a lot more than Barrie was anyway and they weren't doing that all on the top powerplay unit. So if they weren't doing that because of cherrypicked offensie faceoffs, and they weren't doing it because of the top powerplay unit, then clearly defencemen can produce points with Babcock as long as they play well. Barrie could have produced just fine with the 2nd powerplay unit, and the 2nd pairing, but he didn't. Beause he was a guy in a slump.

 

[supsens]

To me, Dubas has done nothing but easy moves right now.
Cliff Fletcher traded Clark for Sundin. He asked Pat Burns about Potvin and dealt Grant Fuhr for Dave Andreychuk.
Right now, IMHO, Dubas needs to do something hypothetically like ask Keefe if Sandin is ready, then turn around and trade
Rielly and Johnsson for Taylor Hall and a 1st round pick. Have Sandin, Hall work out, and the draft pick end up being
top-notch as well. I'm just making this up, but if there was an opportunity which involved risk, just don't see Dubas
pulling the trigger. Kyle's level of cunning is looking at a spreadsheet and safely watch young players develop.

You want to trade your Dman for a UFA forward that has mailed it in for 90% of his career? That wouldn’t help in any way.
NJ is not trading a first round pick they suck and are going to be drafting at the top of the draft, they are looking for a first not giving one out.
No part of that is rational for anyone

 

[Martin Skoula]

To me, Dubas has done nothing but easy moves right now.
Cliff Fletcher traded Clark for Sundin. He asked Pat Burns about Potvin and dealt Grant Fuhr for Dave Andreychuk.
Right now, IMHO, Dubas needs to do something hypothetically like ask Keefe if Sandin is ready, then turn around and trade
Rielly and Johnsson for Taylor Hall and a 1st round pick. Have Sandin, Hall work out, and the draft pick end up being
top-notch as well. I'm just making this up, but if there was an opportunity which involved risk, just don't see Dubas
pulling the trigger. Kyle's level of cunning is looking at a spreadsheet and safely watch young players develop.

If you can outproduce your opponents in terms of young players on spreadsheets, you have that much more money to play with. Tampa can be the among the top bidders on the biggest rentals for years in a row without hurting their system much.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Babcock: 9-10-4 (78 point pace)
Keefe: 6-3-0 (109 point pace)
I think coaching may have been a factor here

 

[IPS]

Babcock: 9-10-4 (78 point pace)
Keefe: 6-3-0 (109 point pace)
I think coaching may have been a factor here

Every game the teams making new developments in one area or another.

Our 3rd period tonight was shaky but I really love how we slammed the door shut those last 5 minutes.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Every game the teams making new developments in one area or another.

Our 3rd period tonight was shaky but I really love how we slammed the door shut those last 5 minutes.

Definitely. I like Keefe, but clearing the toxic atmosphere and awful tactics Babcock beat into our team for years is going to take a bit of time. Winning games is a good cure though

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Babcock: 9-10-4 (78 point pace)
Keefe: 6-3-0 (109 point pace)
I think coaching may have been a factor here

No man, it's Dubas's fault. You can't win games with small, skilled babies on ice!


In all seriousness though, I absolutely love the Keefe system but the only concern I have is the amount of breakaways we're letting up. With Andersen in net, we're fine. But with any average/bad backup goalie, we'd be screwed. Maybe the team needs to adjust to fix that, but if the system does have that flaw, then we really need a good backup goalie.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

No man, it's Dubas's fault. You can't win games with small, skilled babies on ice!


In all seriousness though, I absolutely love the Keefe system but the only concern I have is the amount of breakaways we're letting up. With Andersen in net, we're fine. But with any average/bad backup goalie, we'd be screwed. Maybe the team needs to adjust to fix that, but if the system does have that flaw, then we really need a good backup goalie.

His system requires some better awareness from our D

 

[LeafingTheWay]

His system requires some better awareness from our D

I wonder if that has anything to do with Travis Green. He said he wouldn't reveal his tactics against Keefe (when they coached against each other in the AHL), but guessing that cherry-picking tactic is one of them LOL. But yeah it hasn't happened as often as this games amount, but I've noticed that in a few other games this year under Keefe as well.

 

[Dreakmur]

Babcock: 9-10-4 (78 point pace)
Keefe: 6-3-0 (109 point pace)
I think coaching may have been a factor here

Babcock played the back-up goalie 6 games, which were all losses. Keefe has played the back-up only once, which was obviously a loss. The players obviously like playing for Keefe more, but he's going to have to play back-up more than 5 or 6 times this season.

 

[Morgs]

No man, it's Dubas's fault. You can't win games with small, skilled babies on ice!


In all seriousness though, I absolutely love the Keefe system but the only concern I have is the amount of breakaways we're letting up. With Andersen in net, we're fine. But with any average/bad backup goalie, we'd be screwed. Maybe the team needs to adjust to fix that, but if the system does have that flaw, then we really need a good backup goalie.

We were so good defensivly in the 2nd, kept everything to the outside basically.

Just dumb play after dumb play and no interest in stopping breakaways from happening in the 3rd.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

We were so good defensivly in the 2nd, kept everything to the outside basically.

Just dumb play after dumb play and no interest in stopping breakaways from happening in the 3rd.

part of it is score effects and credit to Vancouver, but also they really have to learn to play with a lead again. They were good against Arizona, Detroit, and St Louis but a lot weaker against Colorado and Vancouver late

 

[Gabriel426]

Those Breakaways are awareness of D and also Nucks playing the high risk high reward due to behind. When they see the Leafs is about to loose possession, they send their winger out, if Leafs managed to keep it in, he circled back if not, it is a breakaway. The only one that didn’t happen this way was the Horvat one where Willie tried to make a pass and it bounced off a Nucks skate and Horvat took it the other way. Having said that, Leafs need to do a better job, like Dman awareness of what’s going on bc you can’t let 4 breakaways and expect your goalie to bail you out.

 

[A1LeafNation]

6-3 under his coach.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Babcock played the back-up goalie 6 games, which were all losses. Keefe has played the back-up only once, which was obviously a loss. The players obviously like playing for Keefe more, but he's going to have to play back-up more than 5 or 6 times this season.

So without back up...
Keefe: 6-2-0
Babcock: 9-5-3

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Every game the teams making new developments in one area or another.

Our 3rd period tonight was shaky but I really love how we slammed the door shut those last 5 minutes.

Silver lining is huge for Leafs under Keefe.
We beat some good teams, whove been setup in September and ironed out the kinks by October.

We have had a Preseason once Babs was fired, and JUST currently ironing out our kinks. Level playing field, Id say we should be closer to Boston then the rest of the Atl. Div