Kyle Dubas discussion II

[Damisoph]

i don't remember 1 poster knocking our shootout points or 105 pt season at that time . i guess for some reason the positive posters feel the need to shit on their own teams previous accomplishments to make the current GM's light shine brighter for some reason , strange

I think it's just human nature. We all want the Leafs to succeed and to paint the current team (management and players) in the best light possible gives us confidence and helps us cope with the anxiety we've had all season what we're going to be feeling in under two weeks.

 

[hotpaws]

That's not true, of course, but it's up to you if you want to rely on shootout win bonus points as a measure of the quality of a team.

enough with your non sense and it's time for you to do something productive

your a numbers guy so take a look at the Keeneland pp's and send me your selections

 

[Leaf Fans]

i don't remember 1 poster knocking our shootout points or 105 pt season at that time . i guess for some reason the positive posters feel the need to shit on their own teams previous accomplishments to make the current GM's light shine brighter for some reason , strange

The 105 point season was good. Until this year it was the franchise best. Lou and his team including Babcock deserve to he recognized for that achievement. As for Dubas. He and his team have eclipsed that mark and have set a new hight. This team that Dubas built is the best one yet. Hopefully, it will have the post season success that they deserve.

 

[Dekes For Days]

it also doesn't describe the way the team was positioned for success going forward. It's not like any GM could have just kept things together and continued to build, since the three best players all went from ELCs to huge real contracts and the salary cap froze due to a pandemic

We were also already the highest spending team in the league in 2017-2018, and multiple depth pieces of that team like Bozak and JVR were walking immediately to free agency. We had multiple cap anchors. We had a barren prospect pool. Our defensive results were among the worst in the league. Our point total had been inflated not only by a crazy shootout record but also by a mid-30s journeyman backup waiver claim playing at a Vezina level he could never hope to come close to again. And as you said, our 3 best players were all going from ELC to big money contracts either immediately or within a year - after which a pandemic unexpectedly turned a rapidly rising cap into a flat cap.

And despite this, we've blown by our franchise record point and wins, and are on pace for a point total that's only been hit 16 times this century, with top underlying metrics, a top offense, a top defense, great special teams, and a prospect pool that's looking really nice.

And somehow there's still people who have this deep anger towards him and want him gone. It's amazing.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

We were also already the highest spending team in the league in 2017-2018, and multiple depth pieces of that team like Bozak and JVR were walking immediately to free agency. We had multiple cap anchors. We had a barren prospect pool. Our defensive results were among the worst in the league. Our point total had been inflated not only by a crazy shootout record but also by a mid-30s journeyman backup waiver claim playing at a Vezina level he could never hope to come close to again. And as you said, our 3 best players were all going from ELC to big money contracts either immediately or within a year - after which a pandemic unexpectedly turned a rapidly rising cap into a flat cap.

And despite this, we've blown by our franchise record point and wins, and are on pace for a point total that's only been hit 16 times this century, with top underlying metrics, a top offense, a top defense, great special teams, and a prospect pool that's looking really nice.

And somehow there's still people who have this deep anger towards him and want him gone. It's amazing.

It is kind of funny watching individual and team records drop left, right and centre yet watching tantrums. I would like to think playoff success would solve that but I doubt it.

 

[Ciao]

It is kind of funny watching individual and team records drop left, right and centre yet watching tantrums. I would like to think playoff success would solve that but I doubt it.

I would bet it was something like this for Frank Mahovlich when Punch Imlach had a personal hate on for him and the Leafs' fans booed him, despite being the highest scoring player in Leafs' history.

A bit before my time, though. Maybe not for others.

Good thing there was no social media then.

Or should it be "anti-social media?"

 

[Northernguy10]

No harm in giving Lawrence Gilman and Brandon Pridham the credit they deserve for being part of a successful management team as well. They have both been Assistant General Managers since May 2018, the same month that Kyle Dubas was appointed as the Leafs' General Manager.

You will recall that in addition to having been an Assistant General Manager, Dubas and Mark Hunter were also the Leafs' co-Interim General Managers from April to July 2015, after Dave Nonis was relieved of his duties and until Lou Lamoriello was hired. Together, Dubas and Hunter were jointly responsible for the Leafs' selections in the 2015 amateur entry draft, and that was a higher degree of responsibility.

Otherwise, Dubas certainly deserves the same degree of credit for his role as an Assistant General Manager as his current assistants deserve now.

I think they're all on the same team!

I'd love to be privy to the whole draft scenario for the 2015 draft, what Dubas and Hunter agreed on, what they disagreed on and how they came up with solutions/compromises but of course it's highly unlikely we'll ever know (unless someone writes a book down the line when they're out of hockey) .

 

[Dekes For Days]

It is kind of funny watching individual and team records drop left, right and centre yet watching tantrums. I would like to think playoff success would solve that but I doubt it.

I'm not sure anything less than a cup would satisfy some people, which is such a ridiculous way to judge a position that's all about the process. A post by 4thline last month may have put it the best I've seen: "We all had hopes to be a Chicago/Pittsburgh, but some thought it was their inevitable right and Dubas stole it from them."

 

[hotpaws]

I'd love to be privy to the whole draft scenario for the 2015 draft, what Dubas and Hunter agreed on, what they disagreed on and how they came up with solutions/compromises but of course it's highly unlikely we'll ever know (unless someone writes a book down the line when they're out of hockey) .

whether people like his picks or not it was Hunter running the draft , unless of course Shanny got involved

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I'm not sure anything less than a cup would satisfy some people, which is such a ridiculous way to judge a position that's all about the process. A post by 4thline last month may have put it the best I've seen: "We all had hopes to be a Chicago/Pittsburgh, but some thought it was their inevitable right and Dubas stole it from them."

They may still yet be. The problem with folks looking at those two models is they don't understand that the young stars were virtually the final pieces while ours came at the start of the rebuild, hence you have to wait a bit for the other pieces to arrive and the young to mature.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

i don't remember 1 poster knocking our shootout points or 105 pt season at that time . i guess for some reason the positive posters feel the need to shit on their own teams previous accomplishments to make the current GM's light shine brighter for some reason , strange

People definitely did at the time, me included.

Only because the shootout exists. If games that ended in OT stated tied like it did for our previous seasons before the 04/05 lockout, these Leafs would’ve only earned 98 points, which would’ve made them tied for fourth overall in team history.

Sure technically it’s our best regular season, but this team had more opportunities to earn points than our previous teams.

———

This season was fun, before we got knocked out in the first round, and glaring weaknesses were exposed and exploited. Morgan Rielly took large steps to becoming a #1D, Marner set a new career high, Kadri got 30+ again, and generally the team did improve.

The ride came to an end too soon, due to a garbage playoff format. But, we’d have faced the Penguins under the old system in any case, so maybe the end result would’ve been the same.

 

[AllDay28]

These threads are pointless..The same people who bag on Dubas also love Lou who legitimately stinks.

People expect perfection which is laughable. But all things considered Dubas has been great. I’m sure if the Leafs won the cup the same naysayers would come up with an excuse for it

 

[zeke]

enough with your non sense and it's time for you to do something productive

your a numbers guy so take a look at the Keeneland pp's and send me your selections

Yes pretending that shootout lottery points are significant is nonsense.

 

[ACC1224]

What’s the difference between the shootout/3on3 points this year vs the prior record season ?
I don’t recall but it doesn’t seem like there has been as many OT games this year.

 

[hotpaws]

Yes pretending that shootout lottery points are significant is nonsense.

never said anything about where the points came from or if they hold all hold the same value simply mentioned how many we had and if it were up to me i'd get rid of the shoot out , loser point and the 3 on 3 o/t .

but don't let that stop you from making up something to argue against or to shit on the team pre Dubas even though you've been predicting success every season for over a decade

 

[Gary Nylund]

These threads are pointless..The same people who bag on Dubas also love Lou who legitimately stinks.

People expect perfection which is laughable. But all things considered Dubas has been great. I’m sure if the Leafs won the cup the same naysayers would come up with an excuse for it

I've been saying for a long time now that I mostly like what Dubas has done and I also acknowledge that he hasn't been perfect.

Al usual, the most cringeworthy posters are the extremists, both those who say he sucks and the team will never succeed until we get "a real GM", and those who absolutely refuse to admit that he's even done anything less than perfect. Saying Dubas is the worst GM in Leaf history etc. is obviously absurd, I'll just leave it at that. But just as dumb is that 2nd group who that keep carpet bombing us with various "expected" stats. I think they do it because instead of pointing to actual goals against (just as an example), pointing to expected goals against makes us look so much better then we really are because it takes goaltending out of the equation. And of course ignoring goaltending when evaluating a team makes zero sense and suggests that those people either don't understand what they're doing, or they are cherry picking stats to suit their agenda.

Goaltending is crucial and the fact that our goaltending is such a big question mark is why we're not considered to be as good as some people think. Advanced stats may make some people feel better about the team but they don't prove anything and they don't help win games, simple as that. This is a good team, no need to twist things around and I look forward to the day when we have some playoff success to feel good about and perhaps the "expected this and that" crowd won't need to lie so much. Maybe Campbell can hold the for us in the playoffs, if he is up to the challenge then as I'm fond of saying (and as I've been saying for years now), this could be the year.

 

[ACC1224]

These threads are pointless..The same people who bag on Dubas also love Lou who legitimately stinks.

People expect perfection which is laughable. But all things considered Dubas has been great. I’m sure if the Leafs won the cup the same naysayers would come up with an excuse for it

People ‘love Lou’ ?

 

[hotpaws]

People ‘love Lou’ ?

not constantly shitting on Lou and his entire tenure with the Leafs means you love him it seems

 

[zeke]

never said anything about where the points came from or if they hold all hold the same value simply mentioned how many we had and if it were up to me i'd get rid of the shoot out , loser point and the 3 on 3 o/t .

but don't let that stop you from making up something to argue against or to shit on the team pre Dubas even though you've been predicting success every season for over a decade

Like I said - it's your choice to believe shootout points say something about the team.

 

[ACC1224]

not constantly shitting on Lou and his entire tenure with the Leafs means you love him it seems

Yeah this can be a weird place at times.

The dramatic swings and over exaggerating reminds me of dinners with my teenage daughters

 

[hotpaws]

Like I said - it's your choice to believe shootout points say something about the team.

they say as much as 3 on 3 points

 

[TMLegend]

Of course it’s his team. It’s why he’ll be accountable if they fail again.

Not for some. They'll blame the players and/or Keefe for not being good enough, not showing up, etc, if they get bounced early. While that is partly true, the GM also bears responsibility for the players and team that goes out on the ice.

 

[Ciao]

There's no need to take shots at Lou or Kyle. Both have played a role in the Leafs' success to date. Both made some good decisions, and some bad ones too. I don't get the Lou vs. Kyle vibe that still resonates with what now seems like a very vocal minority of posters. I think most people have a much more balanced and realistic view of how things have rolled out for the Leafs.

I like three-on-three and the shootout. I like that every game will have a winner and a loser, and within a fixed period of time. I know I can still watch the news after the hockey game. It's a spectator sport, right? The shootout is every bit as much a part of the game as the opening face-off because it's provided for in the rules, and you know that if you don't win it in regulation or overtime that this is where it's going. Prepare and plan for that.

That said, overtime and the shootout make some comparisons to pre-OT pre-shootout seasonal records difficult if not completely meaningless.

Furthermore, it's not just the outcomes of the OT and shootouts, but the way the game is played certainly from the last ten minutes of the third period on. I absolutely hated those tied games late in the third when you know both teams were just playing for the tie -- sometimes from the fifth minute of the third period -- and that there would never be another goal scored or anything the least bit interesting or exciting happen for the rest of the game other than an obligatory fight in the last five minutes of play. It was very boring. I think the new rules are a great improvement, even if they utterly destroy comparisons from one era to another.

However, I think it is easily apparent that Auston Matthews is the best player ever to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs; and this year's version of the Leafs is the best Leafs team in a very long time, if not the one of the best teams ever. They will need playoff success -- and eventually a Stanley Cup -- to find their place in history.

 

[Martin Skoula]

People ‘love Lou’ ?

I'd say it's more "worship" than "love".

 

[zeke]

Love these guys now trying to pretend that they haven't been bringing up Lou to insult Kyle all these years now.

Do you think they convince themselves?