Kyle Dubas discussion II

[acrobaticgoalie]

The reason the team has improved so much is that the core players, namely Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Reilly have all entered their peak years. Going from a ~65 point forward to a ~105 point forward will elevate the team, big time.

These guys were here before Dubas became GM, and were going to progress regardless of who was in charge. He gets no credit for them, or the 105 point team he inherited as a baseline. The real question is, how well did he do with the core’s contracts, and how well did he do filling out the rest of the team? Not very well, in my view.

What? Despite putting himself in cap trouble (not including the pandemic imposing a flat cap), he had added 3 top 4 d men, impactful forwards like Bunting, Kampf, Mikheyev,

The reason the team has improved so much is that the core players, namely Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Reilly have all entered their peak years. Going from a ~65 point forward to a ~105 point forward will elevate the team, big time.

These guys were here before Dubas became GM, and were going to progress regardless of who was in charge. He gets no credit for them, or the 105 point team he inherited as a baseline. The real question is, how well did he do with the core’s contracts, and how well did he do filling out the rest of the team? Not very well, in my

What? Despite putting himself in cap trouble (not including the pandemic imposing a flat cap), he has added:

-3 top 4 d men

-Impactful forwards like Bunting, Kampf, Mikheyev, Spezza Kase, Kerfoot, Blackwell on cheap contracts

-A decent bottom pair, physical d man in Lyubushkin

-A young up and coming Offensive d man in Sandin and a goalie who has played at an Allstar level for a majority of the time he's been here.


So he has added a Calder candidate power forward on pace for 67 points, one of the best 2 way 3rd lines in the NHL, decent depth on the 4th line, a very respectable top 6 defense and arguable a top 10-15 goalie. So how has he done a poor job of filling out the rest of the roster? It also seems like a really dumb statement considering we just broke the franchise record and are on pace for 115 pts.

 

[hotpaws]

f*** Godwin's Law, HFLeafs Officially has Hotpaws' Law.
Tenet 1: In any debate about Dubas, Pawsie will eventually bring up the Burke days
Tenet 2: If at any point in any debate someone resorts to (allegedly) being right about something completely irrelevant that happened MORE THAN A DECADE AGO, they are instantly deemed wrong,
Tenet 2 Bonus: the first poster to quote them and reply HOTPAWS gets an internet cookie.

you know what i find funny ? you won't see me saying a negative word about Mathews/Marner/Willie/Rielly among others but that doesn't mean shit because all that matters it seems on this board is to support and defend the GM to the death , lol . it's truly amazing

when people were ripping on Marner after the loss to the Habs i was defending him , but hey that doesn't make you a fan of the team since as i said supporting Mitch doesn't mean shit because he's just a nothing player and the GM is the sacred cow , lol

what i also find amazing is when people don't learn from there mistakes , like from blindly supporting every move Burke made to now supporting every move Dubie makes

the only thing i can think of why the GM is their favorite employee of the Leafs is because they realize they never had the talent to become a player but believe they could run a team and that's why they identify with the GM

 

[MorrisSmit89]

The team is without Auston, Muzzin, Sandin, Kase, Mrazek and STILL rolling. Dubas has done an excellent job building out the depth on this roster while dealing with a covid flat cap that no one foresaw when the big4 got their deals. Imagine if the cap has gone up as originally expected?

But then again I'm process oriented, not results. Especially in a sport where your best players don't play for more than a third of the game and a hot goalie can end your season.

 

[Leaf Fans]

you know what i find funny ? you won't see me saying a negative word about Mathews/Marner/Willie/Rielly among others but that doesn't mean shit because all that matters it seems on this board is to support and defend the GM to the death , lol . it's truly amazing

when people were ripping on Marner after the loss to the Habs i was defending him , but hey that doesn't make you a fan of them team because as i said supporting Mitch doesn't mean shit because he's just a nothing player and the GM is the sacred cow , lol

what i also find amazing is when people don't learn from there mistakes , like from blindly supporting every move Burke made to now supporting every move Dubie makes

the only thing i can think of why the GM is their favorite employee of the Leafs is because they realize they never had the talent to become a player but believe they could run a team and that's why they identify with the GM

That is utter nonsense. No one blindly supports the GM. They support the team. Even in this thread, which is about the current GM, no one has praised everything the GM has done, nor have they even hinted that the GM is above the team. Posters are saying that Dubas built this team and deserves the credit for doing so, and rightly so.

 

[hotpaws]

That is utter nonsense. No one blindly supports the GM. They support the team. Even in this thread, which is about the current GM, no one has praised everything the GM has done, nor have they even hinted that the GM is above the team. Posters are saying that Dubas built this team and deserves the credit for doing so, and rightly so.

if you say so and as i said before , who am i to pee pee on a fans right to cheer for the GM

 

[Ciao]

He didn’t draft any of them and the discussion isn’t about if I’m happy with the team .

Well, what is the discussion about?

Are you angry over what Kyle Dubas didn't do while he wasn't the GM?

 

[hotpaws]

Well, what is the discussion about?

Are you angry over what Kyle Dubas didn't do while he wasn't the GM?

it was about how some people erroneously believe Dubas acquired Mathews/Marner/Willie/Rielly

not if i'm happy about how well the teams doing which all Leafs fans should be

 

[The Podium]

Such a weird tone in this thread considering the teams current play and position in league standing.

So many here are so fire Dubas trigger happy that they are actually actively cheering for this team to fail or can’t enjoy the ride.

Sad

 

[Ciao]

it was about how some people erroneously believe Dubas acquired Mathews/Marner/Willie/Rielly

not if i'm happy about how well the teams doing which all Leafs fans should be

He did re-sign each of them, and acquired and/or signed each and every other player under contract to the Leafs.

His fingerprints are all over this team.

You sound very upset about something Dubas has done or not done, and it's not making much sense.

On the whole, he's done a pretty good job.

 

[Judas Tavares]

He's had his ups and downs, but I believe he has built something very nice. The players kind of let him down last year. Which you could say is his fault, because he is the one who gets and gets rid of the players. But honestly it was Matthews and Marner who let him down last year. And you can't really fault any GM for having those players. It could be that situation again this year.

But, when you lose that many times in the first round, something has to give as well.

 

[hotpaws]

He did re-sign each of them, and acquired and/or signed each and every other player under contract to the Leafs.

His fingerprints are all over this team.

You sound very upset about something Dubas has done or not done, and it's not making much sense.

On the whole, he's done a pretty good job.

i guess your right since had we not hired him another person would have traded all our young core , lol

and not upset , just find it hilarious how hard people are trying to give Dubas credit for pieces he inherited

have to ask though , do you and others also believe

- Brisbois built the b2b T-Bay cup teams
or
- Bowman built the core that won 3 cups in Chicago
or
-Rutherford built Pitts b2b cup wins

 

[vpasla1]

As much of a good job Dubas has done with the team overall, he did overpay on both Matthews' and Marner's contracts based on the rest of the league. They definitely received cap percentages based on 7-8 year max terms.

In the Top 25 Cap Percentages in the year of signing, the first five year term is Matthews (14.64%), at number 5, and the next five year term is Ovechkin (11.7%), at 25.
Aside from Matthews, the remainder of the Top 12 are all 7 years or more (with Marner being the first less than that).

The first six year term is Marner (13.4%) at 13, and the next six year term is Mikko Rantanen (11.3%) at 28.

Basically, in the Top 24 (greater than 11.7% of the salary cap), only Matthews and Marner are signed for less than 7 years. If they wanted five or six years, the comparable number would have been around 11.7% of the $79,500,000 salary cap (roughly $9.3 million).
Based on this, they are overpaid over $1.5 million each. That $3 million in cap space would have really helped the last couple of years, and in the years going forward.

Source: 2021-22 Active NHL Players - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Ciao]

i guess your right since had we not hired him another person would have traded all our young core , lol

and not upset , just find it hilarious how hard people are trying to give Dubas credit for pieces he inherited

have to ask though , do you and others also believe

- Brisbois built the b2b T-Bay cup teams
or
- Bowman built the core that won 3 cups in Chicago
or
-Rutherford built Pitts b2b cup wins

It's pretty sad that you should try to put words in my mouth. That just highlights the frailty of your reasoning.

Then, having failed to make a coherent point on topic, you're left with changing the subject.

I'm not interested in BriseBois, Bowman or Rutherford. They're not the topic of this conversation.

I think Kyle Dubas has done a pretty good job as GM of the Leafs, and I'm drawing a strong inference that you disagree.

 

[Leaf Fans]

if you say so and as i said before , who am i to pee pee on a fans right to cheer for the GM

Not only if I say so, but fans cheer for the team. They may support the GM as well, but not over the team.

 

[Martin Skoula]

As much of a good job Dubas has done with the team overall, he did overpay on both Matthews' and Marner's contracts based on the rest of the league. They definitely received cap percentages based on 7-8 year max terms.

In the Top 25 Cap Percentages in the year of signing, the first five year term is Matthews (14.64%), at number 5, and the next five year term is Ovechkin (11.7%), at 25.
Aside from Matthews, the remainder of the Top 12 are all 7 years or more (with Marner being the first less than that).

The first six year term is Marner (13.4%) at 13, and the next six year term is Mikko Rantanen (11.3%) at 28.

Basically, in the Top 24 (greater than 11.7% of the salary cap), only Matthews and Marner are signed for less than 7 years. If they wanted five or six years, the comparable number would have been around 11.7% of the $79,500,000 salary cap (roughly $9.3 million).
Based on this, they are overpaid over $1.5 million each. That $3 million in cap space would have really helped the last couple of years, and in the years going forward.

View attachment 533194

Source: 2021-22 Active NHL Players - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Crosby's first contract was 5 years at a higher % than his 12 year deal, most of these are 2nd contracts.

 

[justloveleafs]

Man you guys need the playoffs worse than I do.

 

[hotpaws]

It's pretty sad that you should try to put words in my mouth. That just highlights the frailty of your reasoning.

Then, having failed to make a coherent point on topic, you're left with changing the subject.

I'm not interested in BriseBois, Bowman or Rutherford. They're not the topic of this conversation.

I think Kyle Dubas has done a pretty good job as GM of the Leafs, and I'm drawing a strong inference that you disagree.

I didn't put words in your mouth , you implied that another GM may have moved on from our young core when you said ''he acquired or re-signed every piece on the team'' what else could i have taken from this statement other than you believed another GM may have moved one if not all our young core ?

why aren't you interested in commenting about the three GM's i mentioned ? there situations are similar to Dubies since they all inherited a cup wining or potential cup wining core so i don't understand your apprehension on giving an opinion on them

 

[Leaf Fans]

it was about how some people erroneously believe Dubas acquired Mathews/Marner/Willie/Rielly

not if i'm happy about how well the teams doing which all Leafs fans should be

He was part of the team that drafted them. He kept them as part of the team. He resigned them when they were pending or full free agents ( although their free agency was restricted) He could and he did.

 

[hotpaws]

Not only if I say so, but fans cheer for the team. They may support the GM as well, but not over the team.

i guess when i constantly read posters say the players better reward Dubies faith in them it doesn't mean they put the GM ahead of he team because it sure sounds like it

 

[hotpaws]

He was part of the team that drafted them. He kept them as part of the team. He resigned them when they were pending or full free agents ( although their free agency was restricted) He could and he did.

does the agm still run the Leafs or was just the case when Dubie was agm ?

 

[Leaf Fans]

i guess when i constantly read posters say the players better reward Dubies faith in them it doesn't mean they put the GM ahead of he team because it sure sounds like it

Well it doesn't mean that.

 

[Leaf Fans]

does the agm still run the Leafs or was just the case when Dubie was agm ?

The agm is a part of the team. As an assistant, the agm assists the GM as does the coaching staff. Why do you think it would different when Dubas was agm? Dubas didn't run the Leafs as agm He assisted the GM and worked closely with the other agm.

 

[hotpaws]

The agm is a part of the team. As an assistant, the agm assists the GM as does the coaching staff. Why do you think it would different when Dubas was agm? Dubas didn't run the Leafs as agm He assisted the GM and worked closely with the other agm.

you sure Dubie didn't run the Leafs as agm ? he sure got most if not all the credit for any good move on this board at that time even though he said Lou kicked kicked him to the Marlies the second he got here

Well it doesn't mean that.

what does it mean then ?

 

[Dekes For Days]

As much of a good job Dubas has done with the team overall, he did overpay on both Matthews' and Marner's contracts based on the rest of the league. They definitely received cap percentages based on 7-8 year max terms.

This is incorrect. Both of their contracts are consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts in the cap era, at their term. Matthews had earned the 5th highest value post-ELC contract in the cap era, and he received the 6th highest value post-ELC contract, term considered. Marner had earned the 6th highest value post-ELC contract in the cap era, and he received the 10th highest value post-ELC contract, term considered.

 

[rielledup]

Over the 3 years Mrazek was in Carolina, Carolina's defensive results were tied for 15th in the league. This year, Leafs are the 3rd best team defensively.

Just curious, what numbers are you looking at to come to the conclusion that the leafs are the 3rd best team defensively?