Kyle Dubas Discussion (continued) the 2021 edition

[The Podium]

That is not even close to their best lineup... Beagle is a beast with Ferland and Rousel ... a big tough hard hitting hurt you line that will inflict damage every night to every other team in division ... Sutter cleans up on 4th line .. there is a little too much risk taking going on with their D core which will hurt them against us and Oilers ... but Demko Horvat and Pettersson i believe will shock NHL with breakout years Horvat especially

Considering that is more or less the consensus amongst Canuck fans, that is their best lineup unless you think you know more than them?

You are also overvaluing low skill role players a tad too much. Yes that is what our team is missing, but having them as 7/12 forwards is going to hurt more than itll help.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Considering that is more or less the consensus amongst Canuck fans, that is their best lineup unless you think you know more than them?

You are also overvaluing low skill role players a tad too much. Yes that is what our team is missing, but having them as 7/12 forwards is going to hurt more than itll help.

Men always beat boys ... Travis won't play them .. watch da Canucks they will play BIG and FAST and they have enough skill now to compete ... and enough toughness to earn victories

 

[The Podium]

Men always beat boys ... Travis won't play them .. watch da Canucks they will play BIG and FAST and they have enough skill now to compete ... and enough toughness to earn victories

Thats an oversimplification and 100% not true.

The team that wins are the ones that are most balanced. Having a top heavy team that has nothing but role players in their bottom 6 and terrible D beyond the top pair isnt enough to earn victories.

 

[zeke]

Canucks just got dismantled by FA....

They are going to take a hit this season, although they do have the most untapped potential. They are certainly not deeper than everyone else, especially on the back end.

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser
Pearson - Horvat - Hoglander
Roussel - Gaudette - Virtanen
Hawryluk - Sutter - Macewen

Hughes - Schmidt
Edler - Myers
Juolevi - Hamonic

Demko
Holtby

That bottom 6 looks worse than ours with a much weaker 2nd line and that bottom 4 D looks awful awful.​

I actually like their blueline better this year, because Schmidt is a very nice upgrade over Tanev, even if Hamonic is bad and likely a downgrade from Stecher on the bottom pair. Still, the addition of Schmidt should allow them to dial back the horrible Myers' icetime quite a bit, which should be a big help.

But the goaltending is a problem. IMO Markstrom would have come back down to earth after his career year anyways so not signing him was fine - but then going out and signing Holtby for real money when Holtby has been legit terrible for a couple years now seems like a big mistake. Demko could surprise like he did in the playoffs but I doubt it. Overall his track record is pretty poor.

I don;t think losing toffoli is a big deal as he was barely there and wasn't great in the playoffs, but at the same time the shooting luck for the forwards will likely dry up a bit this year, especially on the PP.

Overall they have a nice but not elite top-4 forwards, and same with their top-3 dmen. But the depth after that is horrific and the goaltending likely bad too.

 

[zeke]

As a thought exercise, consider that Andersen simply had an off year. Should we panic?

as one of the biggest Andersen critics/realists since he got here, I am pretty sure that he was rounding back into form when the covid break came, and if we had completed the season I'm pretty sure he would have improved his save percentage to up near his usual level.

 

[zeke]

Gonna be a tight division. Even Sens will take points here and there. Not much between 1st and 6th.

Canucks
Leafs
Habs
Jets
Flames
Oilers

Sens

Canucks a little deeper then everyone else.
Leafs top 2 lines too much for everyone but Canucks.
Habs and Jets have best goalers so they grab last 2 spots.
Flames not enough offense. Oilers no defense. Sens too young.

Canucks literally have arguably the worst depth in all hockey.

Outside of 4 good forwards and 3 good dmen they have noone that I would even want on our leafs for league minimum.

 

[meefer]

At this point, there isn't any value in what's happened in the past... it's the present that matters.... win now, and all will be forgotten. Failure to at least get to the Cup Semi-Finals, and this will be a major rethink. Get to Cup Semi--Finals, or more... and most should be satisfied.

We should win our division, hands down. If we don't, I'll be on side with dramatic changes. From the semi's on, luck enters into the conversation, but I still think we've a team capable of making the finals. From there...who, how, injuries, luck...unless a team (Colorado?) goes on a heater, I've a bit of confidence and hope.

Tbh, aside from winning the cup, I care more about how they play than whether or not they win a series.

Beating Winnipeg or Vancouver or Montreal in a series won't necessarily be a better performance than our last two losses to Columbus and Boston.

I agree with most of your posts. Not this time. Winning is the goal, not how they play.

 

[ToneDog]

Thats an oversimplification and 100% not true.

The team that wins are the ones that are most balanced. Having a top heavy team that has nothing but role players in their bottom 6 and terrible D beyond the top pair isnt enough to earn victories.

Ironically Canuck fans might say the same thing about the Leafs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Andersen has performed to expectations in the playoffs for the most part in his 4 years here. He just hasn't stolen anything, like that's what a middle of the pack NHL goalie is supposed to do.

Yet that's exactly what a middle-of-the-pack goalie did last year for Columbus. That's what middle-of-the-pack goalies do more than you think in the playoffs. While he shouldn't necessarily be expected to "steal" a series, it's also not really true that he's lived up to expectations in the playoffs in each of his 4 years.

Sounds like Columbus is a ‘great team’ as well just not against the cap.

For the record, Columbus was under the cap by about the difference between Dubois being on ELC and signed.

Ironically Canuck fans might say the same thing about the Leafs.

They would be wrong.

 

[meefer]

as one of the biggest Andersen critics/realists since he got here, I am pretty sure that he was rounding back into form when the covid break came, and if we had completed the season I'm pretty sure he would have improved his save percentage to up near his usual level.

Perhaps so, regardless, he's not won. I'll keep saying it until the cows come home, this is a well constructed team with some exceptional talent. If they fail, it's on the players. Andersen needs to do what all Cup winning teams have had the benefit of having, a goalie who wins them a series or two.

He won't do it alone, but he needs to be better.

 

[The Podium]

Ironically Canuck fans might say the same thing about the Leafs.

Were a bit deeper up front, our 4 line is really the glaring weakness.

On D I like our depth better after their top pair. Our D isn’t terrible by any means.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Canucks literally have arguably the worst depth in all hockey.

Outside of 4 good forwards and 3 good dmen they have noone that I would even want on our leafs for league minimum.

We will see ... it will shock everyone this year ... there are very good reasons Canucks went farther than any other canadian team when it mattered ... and they will progress even more this season as their stars turn into superstars

 

[hotpaws]

Ironically Canuck fans might say the same thing about the Leafs.

yup

hopefully our top end outperforms there's

 

[Dekes For Days]

there are very good reasons Canucks went farther than any other canadian team when it mattered

Unfortunately for them, they lost the main reason to UFA.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Unfortunately for them, they lost the main reason to UFA.

Some may see it that way ... but when a guy wants to get overpaid then sometimes it is best to let him go especially when guy you have coming up is a better goaler anywho ... Canucks have excellent tending ... not as good as Habs or Jets but a bit better than Flames

 

[Dekes For Days]

especially when guy you have coming up is a better goaler anywho

There's no reason to think Demko is currently better.

 

[NinjaKick]

I don't think Dubas has done a great job by any means... more of an obviously adequate job...

that said. Dubas has my support going into the new season... however he is on thin ice. imho the reason we lost to Columbus in the prelims was because we lacked experience and our depth completely dried up...
did Dubas address the issue of experience? absolutely
did Dubas address the issue of our depth? ... that's a big question from me and we shall see... because I have serious concerns about our speed outside of the core. both at offense and defense.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

There's no reason to think Demko is currently better.

Da guys who shoot on them both say Demko is better ... we will all see this year as canucks are going to be NHL biggest surprise team

 

[4thline]

I agree with most of your posts. Not this time. Winning is the goal, not how they play.

Winning is a cup, like he said. Anything else is losing

 

[The Podium]

Da guys who shoot on them both say Demko is better ... we will all see this year as canucks are going to be NHL biggest surprise team

There is no reason to speak in absolutes, and no matter how Canucks perform it will not be a surprise. They have the potential to be dangerous, they also have the risk of being terrible. They are the epitome of high ceiling low floor and their entire season rides on the performance and development of their star players.

They also had a ton of players overachieve last season that still have something to prove.

Is JT Miller a 70+ point player or will he regress to his career mid 50s average? Same question with Tanner Pearson.

Is Demko going to be bubble Demko or low .900 Save% Demko?

How are Edler and Myers going to perform now that they are a year older? Especially when there were signs of aging last offseason?

Does Schmidt have the same chemistry as Tanev with Hughes? Or does Hughes regress with Tanev gone?

 

[Zybalto]

Fewest expected goals against/60 league ranking for all the Canadian teams since Keefe was hired:

8. Montreal
10. Toronto
16. Calgary
19. Edmontaon
25. Ottawa
28. Winnipeg
31. Vancouver

With the D turnover and #1 goalie gone, things could go south quick in Vancouver........

 

[Twine Tickler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I was assured that the Islanders didn&#39;t need John Tavares because they had Mat Barzal and then Barzal&#39;s numbers immediately dipped after Tavares left and then Lamoriello blew all the Islanders cap space on JG Pageau. <br><br>You truly, truly, TRULY...... <br><br>hate to see it.</p>&mdash; death metal dad (@briancrd) <a href="">January 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


for those who think Lou is the answer.... he also just signed matt martin to a 4 year contract 1.5aav contract.

 

[The CyNick]

Canucks literally have arguably the worst depth in all hockey.

Outside of 4 good forwards and 3 good dmen they have noone that I would even want on our leafs for league minimum.

And yet they were a game away from the conference finals while the Leafs didn't qualify for round of 16.

I get one year doesn't tell the whole story, but it's hard to credibly say their depth is awful when they've already had success with a young core. Leafs are still waiting for any success with their young core.

Food for thought.

 

[The CyNick]

I don't think Dubas has done a great job by any means... more of an obviously adequate job...

that said. Dubas has my support going into the new season... however he is on thin ice. imho the reason we lost to Columbus in the prelims was because we lacked experience and our depth completely dried up...
did Dubas address the issue of experience? absolutely
did Dubas address the issue of our depth? ... that's a big question from me and we shall see... because I have serious concerns about our speed outside of the core. both at offense and defense.

The experience added is almost all at the bottom of the lineup. I would argue it's the wrong kind of experience. Spezza was on the team last year. He knows what it takes to be a good pro. But hes fighting for 4th line minutes, so its hard to speak up and say anything.

I guess the plan is to shoehorn Thornton on the top line, but that will mean the top line will get sheltered minutes, because you certainly dont want those three guys against another teams top line.

 

[AvroArrow]

I don't think Dubas has done a great job by any means... more of an obviously adequate job...

that said. Dubas has my support going into the new season... however he is on thin ice. imho the reason we lost to Columbus in the prelims was because we lacked experience and our depth completely dried up...
did Dubas address the issue of experience? absolutely
did Dubas address the issue of our depth? ... that's a big question from me and we shall see... because I have serious concerns about our speed outside of the core. both at offense and defense.

Honestly I just think we lost because Korpisalo stole the series. Muzzin injury after a missed call + Korpisalo playing like a vezina level goalie. We dominated them pretty bad, just couldn't finish. Trap hockey + a goalie playing lights out, it was just an unfortunate matchup/outcome. They don't really forecheck, sit back and trap, if they have the lead they don't advance the puck, if you do gain the zone through the trap the goaltender shuts you down.

We got a lot bigger, more depth and quality on D and experience, which should help against another scenario like that.