Kyle Dubas Appreciation Thread - Mad Man Edition

[kb]

How much money did Ari eat on in that Sens trade? How much did they take back in contracts? Bos,LA,Oil were all in on him and Ari wouldn't take/retain and those teams moved on. The Leafs have done fine with the trades they have made and can't be judged until the season is done.
One one cup! Imagine what Boston will look if these players walk and PB/DK retire and their goalie comes back to his career levels?

Sadly there is no reasoning with the unreasonable.

 

[hotpaws]

This thread is going age about as well as the classic “Kyle Dubas has passed the tests” thread.

one of my favourite all time threads , lol

 

[hotpaws]

How much money did Ari eat on in that Sens trade? How much did they take back in contracts? Bos,LA,Oil were all in on him and Ari wouldn't take/retain and those teams moved on. The Leafs have done fine with the trades they have made and can't be judged until the season is done.
One one cup! Imagine what Boston will look if these players walk and PB/DK retire and their goalie comes back to his career levels?

Imagine what we’ll look like if our 3 kids walk ?

and I don’t even want to start with state of our tending

 

[29Potvin]

Imagine what we’ll look like if our 3 kids walk ?

and I don’t even want to start with state of our tending

our kids can't "walk" after this season.
if what I stated happens in Boston after this season without a cup they are in trouble with nothing to show for it!
The Chicago deal gives us players for two/three playoff runs. We have a first the next two years and all of our top prospects oh and our core player are what 24-26. But hey the sky is falling and every team is doing it better.....

 

[Buds17]

The issue isn't another D man to play with Rielly, the issue is playing Rielly so much.

I'd very much hope that the latter isn't an issue with Dubas having signed Rielly to a bigger contract than Rielly had previously. I think the biggest issue is found in the best complements for Rielly (Brodie, possibly McCabe) being needed for any matchup pairing Keefe would like to utilize.

 

[hotpaws]

our kids can't "walk" after this season.
if what I stated happens in Boston after this season without a cup they are in trouble with nothing to show for it!
The Chicago deal gives us players for two/three playoff runs. We have a first the next two years and all of our top prospects oh and our core player are what 24-26. But hey the sky is falling and every team is doing it better.....

We have exactly 1 top prospect that’s why our pool is rated so low .

Also while Boston/T Bay may fall Buff/Ottawa may rise and if ROR walks we have 2 fouth liners and a bottom pair D to show for all the draft picks we traded .

 

[Stephen]

The issue isn't another D man to play with Rielly, the issue is playing Rielly so much.

The issue appears to be Rielly full stop. He’s regressing into a Yandle, Gostisbhere, Barrie level one dimensional offensive rover who doesn’t give you anything defensively and constantly depends on a reliable babysitter. Whatever happened to the idea that your number one can shelter others?

 

[Racer88]

It was embarrassing for you. I wasn't embarrassed.

You should be. They were awful by any standard

 

[RoadWarrior]

The issue isn't another D man to play with Rielly, the issue is playing Rielly so much.

Rielly until his recent injury this season was clearly a top pairing D man. He has never been a defensive specialist or physical and is only average at checking players. However his elite skating, endurance and passing ability is in the top 5% of the league. Not many guys can move the puck reliably for 25 minutes a game.

They need a defensive stalwart to play with Rielly. Somebody like Ron Hainsey.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Dubas has done all he can and he may still not be done.
If this team can't get out of the 1st round I'm ready to start taking a rusty machete to the core, cartel style.

 

[Budz]

I find the odd thing - is that I have no clue what they are even looking at.

 

[RoadWarrior]

The issue appears to be Rielly full stop. He’s regressing into a Yandle, Gostisbhere, Barrie level one dimensional offensive rover who doesn’t give you anything defensively and constantly depends on a reliable babysitter. Whatever happened to the idea that your number one can shelter others?

Rielly has regressed this season but it might just be temporary. We don’t know what kind of injuries he’s dealing with. He’s been the leafs most reliable playoff guy for a number of years now. Rielly has been sheltering Holl for half the season.

However in my mind Dubas should have pulled the trigger on Chychrun, Orlov or Ekholm. He paid the same price just adding depth players.

 

[kb]

Rielly has regressed this season but it might just be temporary. We don’t know what kind of injuries he’s dealing with. He’s been the leafs most reliable playoff guy for a number of years now. Rielly has been sheltering Holl for half the season.

However in my mind Dubas should have pulled the trigger on Chychrun, Orlov or Ekholm. He paid the same price just adding depth players.

The one thing people keep missing is that the Leafs would have had to pay a lot more for retention on players like Ekholm and Chychrun. So those prices are not the prices the Leafs would have paid. Especially considering where each of the 1sts are likely to end up.

It's not an apples to apples comparison saying the Leafs could have matched it. A Bruins or Leafs 1st has far less trade value than a Sens 1st.

 

[RoadWarrior]

The one thing people keep missing is that the Leafs would have had to pay a lot more for retention on players like Ekholm and Chychrun. So those prices are not the prices the Leafs would have paid. Especially considering where each of the 1sts are likely to end up.

It's not an apples to apples comparison saying the Leafs could have matched it. A Bruins or Leafs 1st has far less trade value than a Sens 1st.

The option was still there for Dubas to acquire a top pairing D man and he chose not to.

 

[kb]

The option was still there for Dubas to acquire a top pairing D man and he chose not to.

The option was not there without gutting the system and causing cap issues going forward for an incremental at best upgrade.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The option was not there without gutting the system and causing cap issues going forward for an incremental at best upgrade.

The choice was realistically 3 runs with McCabe and 2 with Lafferty vs 1 run with Orlov and Hathaway, maybe re-sign Hathaway. On the one hand, setting us up for 2 future runs in which Boston and Tampa have 0 deadline assets left makes sense, but on the other Orlov + Hathaway are a much stronger move for this year.

 

[kb]

The choice was realistically 3 runs with McCabe and 2 with Lafferty vs 1 run with Orlov and Hathaway, maybe re-sign Hathaway. On the one hand, setting us up for 2 future runs in which Boston and Tampa have 0 deadline assets left makes sense, but on the other Orlov + Hathaway are a much stronger move for this year.

While I thought the Orlov and Hathaway adds were good oones, we really don't know if it is a much stronger move for this season yet - we will need to see results.

I think getting ROR, McCabe, and reshaping the bottom of the lineup with multiple adds was a stronger move - the Leafs needed multiple adds to get closer to Boston. The Leafs in theory with ROR now present a matchup issue with their opponents once they decide to have the 3C's on their own lines.

And while I like Orlov and think he's better than McCabe, I think he's an incremental upgrade on McCabe (a tier higher), not a monumental one.

Leafs added Acciari and Lafferty along with Schenn to answer the Hathaway add.

Leafs set themselves up well for this season while being very mindful of subsequent ones. They have the cap space to keep ROR and Acciari, and even Bunting if his ask is reasonable.

 

[Martin Skoula]

While I thought the Orlov and Hathaway adds were good oones, we really don't know if it is a much stronger move for this season yet - we will need to see results.

I think getting ROR, McCabe, and reshaping the bottom of the lineup with multiple adds was a stronger move - the Leafs needed multiple adds to get closer to Boston. The Leafs in theory with ROR now present a matchup issue with their opponents once they decide to have the 3C's on their own lines.

And while I like Orlov and think he's better than McCabe, I think he's an incremental upgrade on McCabe (a tier higher), not a monumental one.

Leafs added Acciari and Lafferty along with Schenn to answer the Hathaway add.

Leafs set themselves up well for this season while being very mindful of subsequent ones. They have the cap space to keep ROR and Acciari, and even Bunting if his ask is reasonable.

Yeah this would have been post-ROR trade, I think McCabe and Orlov are the same cap hit this year with retention, the entire tradeoff is more term vs higher quality today. IMO Orlov is a good amount better than McCabe, he would be #1D without any hesitation here.

There's pros and cons to both options, I mostly just prefer Hathaway to Lafferty by a lot and would have personally enjoyed stealing Boston's guys from them in an important year to their room.

 

[kb]

Yeah this would have been post-ROR trade, I think McCabe and Orlov are the same cap hit this year with retention, the entire tradeoff is more term vs higher quality today. IMO Orlov is a good amount better than McCabe, he would be #1D without any hesitation here.

There's pros and cons to both options, I mostly just prefer Hathaway to Lafferty by a lot and would have personally enjoyed stealing Boston's guys from them in an important year to their room.

I hear you, but the Bruins just probably would have gone out and done something like getting Chychrun and Crouse instead if we took the Washington duo. There were just too many options available to buying teams.

 

[RoadWarrior]

The option was not there without gutting the system and causing cap issues going forward for an incremental at best upgrade.

They did gut the system by trading most of their first and second round picks for the next 3 years.

I wouldn’t call Ekholm or Chychrun an incremental upgrade. That’s a substantial upgrade.

 

[notbias]

We have exactly 1 top prospect that’s why our pool is rated so low .

Also while Boston/T Bay may fall Buff/Ottawa may rise and if ROR walks we have 2 fouth liners and a bottom pair D to show for all the draft picks we traded .

Can you pull up a few credible ratings? I thought we were always around 15-20, which is good for a contender.

 

[Leaf Fans]

You should be. They were awful by any standard

LoL.

 

[hotpaws]

Can you pull up a few credible ratings? I thought we were always around 15-20, which is good for a contender.

There all subjective but everything that people have posted have us 18 - 22 if I remember correctly .

regardless of where we rank the fact remains outside Knies we don’t have any highly rated prospects , now saying this doesn’t mean someone can’t surprise and the Russian kid already has and may be turn out to be a stud for us

 

[Stephen]

The one thing people keep missing is that the Leafs would have had to pay a lot more for retention on players like Ekholm and Chychrun. So those prices are not the prices the Leafs would have paid. Especially considering where each of the 1sts are likely to end up.

It's not an apples to apples comparison saying the Leafs could have matched it. A Bruins or Leafs 1st has far less trade value than a Sens 1st.

No doubt the Ottawa package gave Arizona the highest pick value out of anything Toronto could have offered and can’t be compared 1 to 1 with our trades which came with retention.

I personally like the depth moves and value of McCabe and Lafferty with retention. But it will come down to what happens on the ice, it seems like that Toronto have handed out so many picks they could definitely have given Arizona a big package if they wanted to. Don’t have success, it will open up a lot of questions.

 

[Martin Skoula]

There all subjective but everything that people have posted have us 18 - 22 if I remember correctly .

regardless of where we rank the fact remains outside Knies we don’t have any highly rated prospects , now saying this doesn’t mean someone can’t surprise and the Russian kid already has and may be turn out to be a stud for us

We have too many NHL players as is and a full line of Knies-Holmberg-McMann looking for spots. There’s nothing great in the pool but we just need guys who can do bottom-6/bottom pair jobs for ELC money or get rebuilding teams to value them at a 2nd/late 1st in the future.