kb
Registered User
- Aug 28, 2009
- 15,355
- 22,015
Exactly.
This seems to be so obvious that it shouldn't need to be said......but here we are.
Kyle Dubas Appreciation Thread - Mad Man Edition
- Thread starter Isaac Nootin
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
This seems to be so obvious that it shouldn't need to be said......but here we are.
Felix the Cat Potvin
Registered User
- Jun 18, 2022
- 126
- 280
While Washington was making unsuccessful playoff runs (granted their version of failure was a much higher standard than ours), they routinely kept their first rounders and drafted Carlson, Kuznetsov, Wilson, Vrana, Burakovsky and Johansson to ultimately supplement the Ovechkin and Backstrom core as they were entering their 30s. That's how they won. We won't have that second push coming.
We draft undersized analytic darlings, just what the online scouting community loves. I think many of our prospects are overrated. The only potential impact player we have coming is Knies, and I see him more as a tweener than top-6. Lots of players dominate college hockey, and can't make it in the NHL. See Adam Gaudette. Don't even get me started on the Finnish league which is basically ECHL hockey. The closer our prospects get to the NHL, the more the hype seems to die down.
Last edited:
Agreed. I don't think I'll ever get over Pronman's article about the Leafs having one of the bast drafts ever known, when selecting Marner, Dermott, Bracco, Nielsen, Dzierkals, Lindgren, Timashov, Desrocher and Korostelev.
Very true, for example, we drafted a bunch of small players last draft coming in at 5'8, 5'10, 6'1, 6'2, and 6'5.
The year before that we drafted 5'10, 6'2, 6'2.
The year before that we drafted 5'8, 5'9, 5'9, 5'9, 5'9, 5'10, 5'11, 5'11, 5'11, 6'0, 6'1, 6'1
not seeing all the small analytics darlings you are.
I see most players around average size being drafted (also, usually still 18).
I'd be curious how this stacks up against other teams.
Felix the Cat Potvin
Registered User
- Jun 18, 2022
- 126
- 280
From a recent list:
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Matthew Knies[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]W[/TD]
[TD]Minnesota[/TD]
[TD]NCAA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Nick Robertson[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]W[/TD]
[TD]Toronto[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Topi Niemelä[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]Kärpät[/TD]
[TD]Liiga[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Fraser Minten[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]Kamloops[/TD]
[TD]WHL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Pontus Holmberg[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]Toronto[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Roni Hirvonen[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]C/W[/TD]
[TD]HIFK[/TD]
[TD]Liiga[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Nick Moldenhauer[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]C/W[/TD]
[TD]Chicago[/TD]
[TD]USHL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Ty Voit[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]W[/TD]
[TD]Sarnia[/TD]
[TD]OHL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Semyon Der-Arguchintsev[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]C/W[/TD]
[TD]Toronto[/TD]
[TD]AHL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Nick Abruzzese[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]C/W[/TD]
[TD]Toronto[/TD]
[TD]AHL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]Alex Steeves[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]W[/TD]
[TD]Toronto[/TD]
[TD]AHL[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Ryan Tverberg[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Outside of Knies and Minten, you don't see a pattern here? Come on. Also, this list is depressing, if you look at other teams' lists.
Alright, carry on, I already know I won't agree with your player evaluation, Minten is not a "legitimate prospect", weird considering he is having a good season.
kb
Registered User
- Aug 28, 2009
- 15,355
- 22,015
I see a pattern - it's in your posts. All bashing the Leafs. Nothing else.
So every single thing this franchise does is wrong? If what they are doing is wrong, I would hate to see your right way.
You'd Burke or Nonis everything. All big, none higher than beer leagues or the ECHL
The Toronto media are largely shills for whoever's the GM at the time. Cox and Simmons provide more realistic viewpoints generally but this place absolutely despises them because they don't wave the pom poms blindly. In general, people would be far better off using their own critical thinking then listening to the media covering this team.
kb
Registered User
- Aug 28, 2009
- 15,355
- 22,015
Huh? What? Try again. ROR was arguably the most impactful forward. Selke, Cup, and Conn Smythe winner who is younger than JT.
Felix the Cat Potvin
Registered User
- Jun 18, 2022
- 126
- 280
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
I mean, the list seems fairly in line with what you'd expect from a team that'l over the last 5-7 years drafting at the back half of every round?
Most teams who frequently draft in that range have mostly long term projects (like the Leafs) rather than nothing but blue chips.
hamzarocks
Registered User
The first 6 of that list are legit prospects with NHL probabilities
The next 2 are potential but a long shot still
The last 4 are Jeremy Bracco wannabes
Honestly, I think if the Leafs get Orlov and Hathaway while Bruins got McCabe and Lafferty. The narrative will probably be the same. Bruins system is more suited for all four players.
Not saying Orlov is not better than McCabe bc he is but it is not like Orlov is a true No. 1 Dman while McCabe is just a normal 2nd pairing. While Hathaway is the best 4th liner in the game and Lafferty is lucky to be the 12th forward.
Leafs system or at the very least the mentality of the players need to change to adopt the new players and the new style while Bruins is still the same.
Actually beside Rangers, all the other adds to the other teams just strengthen what they are doing while our adds not only strengthen our team but also causing the existing team to change their style and mentality.
TMLBlueandWhite
Go Leafs Go
- Feb 2, 2023
- 2,281
- 2,382
Take out the four goalies who are all over six foot and that leaves you with four players six foot or taller.
Most of these guys are also under 200lbs.
The average size of an NHL player is 6'1" and 205lbs.
Take a look at Ottawa's drafting the over the same time span.
The difference in the size of their draft selections over the Leafs is startling.
I am not sure Ottawa is who we should be aiming to replicate.
I'd be curious how the good teams draft. I may just check Carolina because they are the best drafters as far as I am concerned (and I think most other people).
Also, teams with higher picks will likely be drafting bigger players, since the combination of skill and size is not easy to find later in the draft (no clue how Knies fell to us).
Do you know what else is startling? How bad our draft was when we drafted giants.
The NHL average is not relevant, what is the drafting average? I'll try to take a look for this.
I am not advocating for small players, I am advocating for good players. Especially in later rounds, I'd rather go for boom-bust players in most situations as they are much more valuable if they hit, and I don't like the chances of a player of any size working out in round 4+.
We've shown this deadline it is pretty easy to fill out the bottom six if we need to with some size and energy guys, our bottom 6 is almost exclusively throw-ins from other trades.
TMLBlueandWhite
Go Leafs Go
- Feb 2, 2023
- 2,281
- 2,382
I knew you were gonna say that about Ottawa.
I was responding to the part in your original response that said "not seeing all the small analytics darlings you are.".
I was just pointing out that most of those guys drafted were under six feet and 200 lbs.
They're over 18. They are adults. You might squeeze another inch out of them, but they are about as tall as they get.
Most drafted players, especially in our ranges, are under 6 feet and under 200 lbs.
Atomos2
Registered User
Really wish Dubas could give us more confidence in goaltending. In a series against Vasilevsky, that's a massive question mark. Massive.
Sucks we're facing him again, but it's not like you can just go out and pick up a Vasilevsky equivalent.
weems
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2008
- 18,840
- 13,484
I'm not even sold on Ullmark
He got litup bad in the first two games against CAR last playoffs.
I am actually concerned around Vasi and Shas. Shas like Vasi, Korpisalo, can get hot and win you a series
Streaky in a very good way. Streaky goalies always scare me
Andersen I am not worried about. Good goalie but he really doens't have that streaky ' you can't get a single goal by me' moments
