Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,654
- 19,359
I just hope they have a plan to clear some cap space otherwise we are keeping Kreider and losing Strome and DeAngelo.
Confirmed with Link: Kreider extended 7 years, AAV approximately $6.5MM
- Thread starter Brooklyn Rangers Fan
- Start date
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I think he almost has to be captain now. That’s the only way he seems to be truly worth this contract is if he was that important in the room, which we don’t really have access to that info but I do believe that role has importance.
For the record I was pro-trade CK. I can’t judge this fully until I see the rest of the cap fallout. If this costs us ADA, I’ll be upset. I’m hoping JG has other moves coming to relieve the cap pressure.
For the record I was pro-trade CK. I can’t judge this fully until I see the rest of the cap fallout. If this costs us ADA, I’ll be upset. I’m hoping JG has other moves coming to relieve the cap pressure.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Thats some serious twisting of words there. If you cant see why O'Reilly is better than Zibanejad I dont know what to tell you, other than you need to watch more hockey because you clearly didnt watch a single second of last years playoffs.
It's nothing against Zibanejad by the way, he is a top 10-15 center, ROR is top 5-7. History dictates you need one in the 5-7 range.
PuckLuck3043
Stairway To Heaven
They are both RFA's and we have 20 million coming off the books after next year. I'm sure they will work something out with ADA, Im not sure about Strome.
The Crypto Guy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2017
- 29,192
- 38,861
Yea, it's not like we have some future players who we will have to pay like DeAngelo, Igor, Fox, Kakko and Mika.
Can you win the Cup with an elite, top line center? Is Zibanejad an elite top line center?
Where were they getting this center in the 5-7 range from? Some team just gonna give him to the Rangers? Was Bettman gonna rig the draft?
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
No, you need a FRANCHISE center. The top of the top of the top. Zibanejad is an elite center yes but not on the level of previous Cup winners
Zibanejbread
Rebuilding.
Where were they getting this center in the 5-7 range from? Some team just gonna give him to the Rangers? Was Bettman gonna rig the draft?
Chalfdiggity3
Registered User
Not a big fan of this signing for mr inconsistency. But I hope that I am wrong. 6.5aav not that big of a deal but the 7 year? Come on gorts!
Which is probably why there are no big UFAs coming. And can players like Fox, Kakko & Igor please come off their ECLs before we start to have this discussion?
Chalfdiggity3
Registered User
Not a big fan of this signing for mr inconsistency. But I hope that I am wrong. 6.5aav not that big of a deal but the 7 year? Come on gorts!
An elite top line center is not a FRANCHISE center? Then what players are, pray tell? And what is the differentiation between being an elite, top line center and a FRANCHISE center?
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Well we are certainly not getting one now that "the rebuild is over".
Gorton is making the same mistake Sather did, sending us into battle lacking at center in 2012-15.
It all stems back from missing out on a center in 2003. If we had a prime Mike Richards in 2012, or an 87 point Getzlaf in 2014, or a Selke Bergeron in 2015, we come away with a Cup then.
History will always repeat itself. See my points?
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
I'm still in shock this actually happened. The fact that Gorton caved is so disheartening, not going to lie
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
If you cant make the differention between MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid, Draisaitl, Barkov, Crosby, ROR, Bergeron and Zibanejad, that sounds like a you problem.
First I think this is not about trying to "win it" this year or something, but I think that this is the Rangers acknowledging that they want be seriously competing and contending in 2-3 years, not in an endless rebuild. And that makes sense...if you sell Kreider now, then you sell Zibanejad in 2 years, then you sell Buch, then you sell DeAngelo, so on and so forth, it's too much roster churn to hope that the guys you're acquiring/drafting are going to be ready all at the same time and ready to put a legitimate quality and competing team on the ice. The Rangers appear to try to be putting together a team led by their "middle age" players like Panarin, Zibanejad, Trouba, etc, while filling the rest of the roster with up and comers.
in the 21'22 season? Kakko has had a chance to settle in and start becoming a real threat, Chytil is hopefully improved to be a good 2C, Kravtsov is in the lineup and contributing top six, who knows who else is in there in the mix because I'm probably forgetting guys and there will be other acquisitions, but you still have Panarin, Zibanejad, even Kreider, Buch, etc in productive years.
The trick is to be able to keep bringing in enough young talent to keep the ball rolling as the older guys age out, the younger guys hit their primes, and you have more young talent behind them.
So, part of all that is I'm guessing the Rangers wanted a legitimate upside NHLplayer/prospect as part of a return for Kreider...someone who would step into the lineup and maybe not replace him immediately but be a player who could be that legtimate top six player down the road and be part of keeping everything going. I'm guessing they were mostly offered picks and B prospects without much legitimate hope of being real top six NHLers.
On top of that, Kreider certainly is a leader for the Rangers at this point. When they sold off their old core leadership group, he seems to have stepped to be a leader on the team and even off the ice with helping players train etc. If you want a legitimate contender you need some kind of leadership in your locker room which you don't get if you're constantly selling off players.
It's obviously not without some large risks. He's 29, obviously the problem is whether he declines sooner or later and what the cap complications may be. I mean, it's likely he declines some next year. I still suspect there are many aspects of his play that won't fall off a cliff though. I don't think his speed is going to desert him. Plenty of fast players have kept their speed well into their mid and late 30's and despite his reputation his game isn't exactly about being an amazing skater. He's good in front of the net and along the boards. I suspect he declines into a solid 20-20 ish guy over the next few years and hovers around there for awhile before back diving at the end of his contract. Maybe he ends like a Cullen type who can provide you something on the bottom six but isn't going to score much.
but perhaps I'm also optimistic. I think it comes down to that I don't believe the Rangers were going to get a real good return for a rental on him. I think they wanted a return with a potential impact player in it and no one wanted to give that. On top of that, they see him as valuable to the team beyond his on ice play and as part of an important group to keep together with the plan to compete sooner rather than later. Could be massive folly, I don't know. I'm just spitting out my take on what the Rangers thought process may be.
I jsut think the Rangers are not interested in the "rebuild churn" for several more years and then crossing their fingers and hoping that all the random picks and prospects they got can be assembled into at eam that MIGht be competitive in 5 years
As for cap complications...making broad statements about who the Rangers will have to "lose" for this to work is pre-mature. We don't know what the Rangers might still have in mind, what the cap may end up doing, etc etc. I suspect they value Kreider much more than they value someone like Strome and would be more inclined to move Strome for a pick in the offseason, move Chytil up in the lineup, and buyout Lundqvist, trade Skjei, etc, before they lose a player like DeAngelo.
in the 21'22 season? Kakko has had a chance to settle in and start becoming a real threat, Chytil is hopefully improved to be a good 2C, Kravtsov is in the lineup and contributing top six, who knows who else is in there in the mix because I'm probably forgetting guys and there will be other acquisitions, but you still have Panarin, Zibanejad, even Kreider, Buch, etc in productive years.
The trick is to be able to keep bringing in enough young talent to keep the ball rolling as the older guys age out, the younger guys hit their primes, and you have more young talent behind them.
So, part of all that is I'm guessing the Rangers wanted a legitimate upside NHLplayer/prospect as part of a return for Kreider...someone who would step into the lineup and maybe not replace him immediately but be a player who could be that legtimate top six player down the road and be part of keeping everything going. I'm guessing they were mostly offered picks and B prospects without much legitimate hope of being real top six NHLers.
On top of that, Kreider certainly is a leader for the Rangers at this point. When they sold off their old core leadership group, he seems to have stepped to be a leader on the team and even off the ice with helping players train etc. If you want a legitimate contender you need some kind of leadership in your locker room which you don't get if you're constantly selling off players.
It's obviously not without some large risks. He's 29, obviously the problem is whether he declines sooner or later and what the cap complications may be. I mean, it's likely he declines some next year. I still suspect there are many aspects of his play that won't fall off a cliff though. I don't think his speed is going to desert him. Plenty of fast players have kept their speed well into their mid and late 30's and despite his reputation his game isn't exactly about being an amazing skater. He's good in front of the net and along the boards. I suspect he declines into a solid 20-20 ish guy over the next few years and hovers around there for awhile before back diving at the end of his contract. Maybe he ends like a Cullen type who can provide you something on the bottom six but isn't going to score much.
but perhaps I'm also optimistic. I think it comes down to that I don't believe the Rangers were going to get a real good return for a rental on him. I think they wanted a return with a potential impact player in it and no one wanted to give that. On top of that, they see him as valuable to the team beyond his on ice play and as part of an important group to keep together with the plan to compete sooner rather than later. Could be massive folly, I don't know. I'm just spitting out my take on what the Rangers thought process may be.
I jsut think the Rangers are not interested in the "rebuild churn" for several more years and then crossing their fingers and hoping that all the random picks and prospects they got can be assembled into at eam that MIGht be competitive in 5 years
As for cap complications...making broad statements about who the Rangers will have to "lose" for this to work is pre-mature. We don't know what the Rangers might still have in mind, what the cap may end up doing, etc etc. I suspect they value Kreider much more than they value someone like Strome and would be more inclined to move Strome for a pick in the offseason, move Chytil up in the lineup, and buyout Lundqvist, trade Skjei, etc, before they lose a player like DeAngelo.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
If you cant make the differention between MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid, Draisaitl, Barkov, Crosby, ROR, Bergeron and Zibanejad, that sounds like a you problem.
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,857
- 13,012
One of the big disconnects between the "sign Kreider" crowd and the "trade Kreider" crowd seems to be the belief that the Rangers are rebuilt enough to compete for multiple Cups, versus not.
As I had said many times, if it were possible, signing Kreider to this deal after trading him for assets for the rest of the year FIRST would have been way more palatable.
In any case, I'm very interested to see if they decided they can't live without Kreider but are still in asset accumulation mode, or if they are thinking they are gonna line up and compete for a title next year. Because if it's the latter, I couldn't possibly disagree more strongly and I would be terrified they are killing off their true title chances down the line.
As I had said many times, if it were possible, signing Kreider to this deal after trading him for assets for the rest of the year FIRST would have been way more palatable.
In any case, I'm very interested to see if they decided they can't live without Kreider but are still in asset accumulation mode, or if they are thinking they are gonna line up and compete for a title next year. Because if it's the latter, I couldn't possibly disagree more strongly and I would be terrified they are killing off their true title chances down the line.
PuckLuck3043
Stairway To Heaven
Yup, and we will have an extra 20 million and cap will go up, not to mention other roster movement that is going to happen. Gorton is not stupid. He knows better than you or I what he is looking at down the road. He has moved Stepan, Nash, McDonagh, Grabner, Zucc, Hayes, JT Miller in last 3 years so he is not afraid to move players he feels he can't pay. He doesn't have to move everybody over 28 when they are looking to get paid.
The Crypto Guy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2017
- 29,192
- 38,861
I mean, that's what having good foresight is about right? Shouldn't Gorton see what he has and try and factor these things in his head before committing to insane 7 year contracts for players who will be on the decline? Top players like Igor might be, could certainly be when his ECL is up could EASILY command over 6M. Kakko? Fox? Same thing if they blow the roof off their during the final years of their ECLs. Not saying they all will but you need to at least prepare for it. Or we don't and he is stuck trading top young players away.
First I think this is not about trying to "win it" this year or something, but I think that this is the Rangers acknowledging that they want be seriously competing and contending in 2-3 years, not in an endless rebuild. And that makes sense...if you sell Kreider now, then you sell Zibanejad in 2 years, then you sell Buch, then you sell DeAngelo, so on and so forth, it's too much roster churn to hope that the guys you're acquiring/drafting are going to be ready all at the same time and ready to put a legitimate quality and competing team on the ice. The Rangers appear to try to be putting together a team led by their "middle age" players like Panarin, Zibanejad, Trouba, etc, while filling the rest of the roster with up and comers.
in the 21'22 season? Kakko has had a chance to settle in and start becoming a real threat, Chytil is hopefully improved to be a good 2C, Kravtsov is in the lineup and contributing top six, who knows who else is in there in the mix because I'm probably forgetting guys and there will be other acquisitions, but you still have Panarin, Zibanejad, even Kreider, Buch, etc in productive years.
The trick is to be able to keep bringing in enough young talent to keep the ball rolling as the older guys age out, the younger guys hit their primes, and you have more young talent behind them.
So, part of all that is I'm guessing the Rangers wanted a legitimate upside NHLplayer/prospect as part of a return for Kreider...someone who would step into the lineup and maybe not replace him immediately but be a player who could be that legtimate top six player down the road and be part of keeping everything going. I'm guessing they were mostly offered picks and B prospects without much legitimate hope of being real top six NHLers.
On top of that, Kreider certainly is a leader for the Rangers at this point. When they sold off their old core leadership group, he seems to have stepped to be a leader on the team and even off the ice with helping players train etc. If you want a legitimate contender you need some kind of leadership in your locker room which you don't get if you're constantly selling off players.
It's obviously not without some large risks. He's 29, obviously the problem is whether he declines sooner or later and what the cap complications may be. I mean, it's likely he declines some next year. I still suspect there are many aspects of his play that won't fall off a cliff though. I don't think his speed is going to desert him. Plenty of fast players have kept their speed well into their mid and late 30's and despite his reputation his game isn't exactly about being an amazing skater. He's good in front of the net and along the boards. I suspect he declines into a solid 20-20 ish guy over the next few years and hovers around there for awhile before back diving at the end of his contract. Maybe he ends like a Cullen type who can provide you something on the bottom six but isn't going to score much.
but perhaps I'm also optimistic. I think it comes down to that I don't believe the Rangers were going to get a real good return for a rental on him. I think they wanted a return with a potential impact player in it and no one wanted to give that. On top of that, they see him as valuable to the team beyond his on ice play and as part of an important group to keep together with the plan to compete sooner rather than later. Could be massive folly, I don't know. I'm just spitting out my take on what the Rangers thought process may be.
I jsut think the Rangers are not interested in the "rebuild churn" for several more years and then crossing their fingers and hoping that all the random picks and prospects they got can be assembled into at eam that MIGht be competitive in 5 years
As for cap complications...making broad statements about who the Rangers will have to "lose" for this to work is pre-mature. We don't know what the Rangers might still have in mind, what the cap may end up doing, etc etc. I suspect they value Kreider much more than they value someone like Strome and would be more inclined to move Strome for a pick in the offseason, move Chytil up in the lineup, and buyout Lundqvist, trade Skjei, etc, before they lose a player like DeAngelo.
in the 21'22 season? Kakko has had a chance to settle in and start becoming a real threat, Chytil is hopefully improved to be a good 2C, Kravtsov is in the lineup and contributing top six, who knows who else is in there in the mix because I'm probably forgetting guys and there will be other acquisitions, but you still have Panarin, Zibanejad, even Kreider, Buch, etc in productive years.
The trick is to be able to keep bringing in enough young talent to keep the ball rolling as the older guys age out, the younger guys hit their primes, and you have more young talent behind them.
So, part of all that is I'm guessing the Rangers wanted a legitimate upside NHLplayer/prospect as part of a return for Kreider...someone who would step into the lineup and maybe not replace him immediately but be a player who could be that legtimate top six player down the road and be part of keeping everything going. I'm guessing they were mostly offered picks and B prospects without much legitimate hope of being real top six NHLers.
On top of that, Kreider certainly is a leader for the Rangers at this point. When they sold off their old core leadership group, he seems to have stepped to be a leader on the team and even off the ice with helping players train etc. If you want a legitimate contender you need some kind of leadership in your locker room which you don't get if you're constantly selling off players.
It's obviously not without some large risks. He's 29, obviously the problem is whether he declines sooner or later and what the cap complications may be. I mean, it's likely he declines some next year. I still suspect there are many aspects of his play that won't fall off a cliff though. I don't think his speed is going to desert him. Plenty of fast players have kept their speed well into their mid and late 30's and despite his reputation his game isn't exactly about being an amazing skater. He's good in front of the net and along the boards. I suspect he declines into a solid 20-20 ish guy over the next few years and hovers around there for awhile before back diving at the end of his contract. Maybe he ends like a Cullen type who can provide you something on the bottom six but isn't going to score much.
but perhaps I'm also optimistic. I think it comes down to that I don't believe the Rangers were going to get a real good return for a rental on him. I think they wanted a return with a potential impact player in it and no one wanted to give that. On top of that, they see him as valuable to the team beyond his on ice play and as part of an important group to keep together with the plan to compete sooner rather than later. Could be massive folly, I don't know. I'm just spitting out my take on what the Rangers thought process may be.
I jsut think the Rangers are not interested in the "rebuild churn" for several more years and then crossing their fingers and hoping that all the random picks and prospects they got can be assembled into at eam that MIGht be competitive in 5 years
As for cap complications...making broad statements about who the Rangers will have to "lose" for this to work is pre-mature. We don't know what the Rangers might still have in mind, what the cap may end up doing, etc etc. I suspect they value Kreider much more than they value someone like Strome and would be more inclined to move Strome for a pick in the offseason, move Chytil up in the lineup, and buyout Lundqvist, trade Skjei, etc, before they lose a player like DeAngelo.
- Jul 16, 2005
- 14,857
- 13,012
One of the big disconnects between the "sign Kreider" crowd and the "trade Kreider" crowd seems to be the belief that the Rangers are rebuilt enough to compete for multiple Cups, versus not.
As I had said many times, if it were possible, signing Kreider to this deal after trading him for assets for the rest of the year FIRST would have been way more palatable.
In any case, I'm very interested to see if they decided they can't live without Kreider but are still in asset accumulation mode, or if they are thinking they are gonna line up and compete for a title next year. Because if it's the latter, I couldn't possibly disagree more strongly and I would be terrified they are killing off their true title chances down the line.
As I had said many times, if it were possible, signing Kreider to this deal after trading him for assets for the rest of the year FIRST would have been way more palatable.
In any case, I'm very interested to see if they decided they can't live without Kreider but are still in asset accumulation mode, or if they are thinking they are gonna line up and compete for a title next year. Because if it's the latter, I couldn't possibly disagree more strongly and I would be terrified they are killing off their true title chances down the line.
Zibanejad is a big 2 way center that has 134 points in his last 130 games over the past 2 seasons and is trending upwards. Hes a franchise center at this point.
