Confirmed with Link: Kravtsov requests trade

[EdJovanovski]

Probably not.

Every "generation" thinks the next one is a bunch of entitled whiny shits who want everything handed to them. People thought the same about the baby boomers too. Gen X, etc. Go back to like ancient greece and find philosophers bitching about "those damn kids".

and even if it's true about millenials and younger generations, well then maybe their boomer parents should have raised them better




That clause was only for the first year of his ELC

The fact that every preceding generation criticizes the next one doesn’t make said critiques untrue

 

[mas0764]

Krav is not even in game shape dude. He didn't play all summer. He's not well conditioned.

As of camp, he wasn't a valuable asset. This isn't a proven player. He got demoted in Russia when he went back there. He had an okay preseason and scored a one-timer in one preseason game. That's it. That's the thing you're saying they should reconfigure the bottom 6 of the team for.

It makes no sense. He's got a few stick handling moments and a nice shot. That's not a complete player. Not even close.

Someone compared him to Kreider, but Kreider at least has a unique element to his game. What does Krav bring to the table that isn't better served with other options the Rangers have? Not really anything.

Blais is a better and more complete player right now. He brings diversity to the team with his play style - something they were sorely lacking last year with all of the East/West style finesse plays.

Krav is just another finesse guy and an unproven one at that. You don't win games in the current NHL with a roster full players like Krav, as we learned last year.

I like the kid's game but I also didn't think there was room for him yet and I wanted to see him play more minutes in the AHL rather than be limited on a 4th line role. The fact that he can't handle that isn't the team's fault. Their job isn't to coddle.

Their only mistake was not dealing him sooner rather than not giving him a spot.

It is the actual definition of Drury and Gallant’s jobs, among many tasks, to develop their talent for the future.

Sometimes in modern sports that involves coddling, as much as old fogies don’t like it. It’s very much their job.

No one denies Blais is better situated today for a third line checking role than Kravtsov. It’s also not entirely relevant.

Reconfigure their team, please.

Kreider should have been third line LW, Blais fourth line, give Kravtsov the opportunity to show something first. If it doesn’t work out then we can talk changes after. Oh no, what will we do if Blais is upset? Heaven forfend we upset a career high 30 point scorer who is a RFA at year’s end with zero upside in favor of a potential first liner.

Gosh, what would Dryden Hunt think if Kravtsov made the team over him? Could we dare risk it?

 

[Hanji]

Probably not.

Every "generation" thinks the next one is a bunch of entitled whiny shits who want everything handed to them. People thought the same about the baby boomers too. Gen X, etc. Go back to like ancient greece and find philosophers bitching about "those damn kids".

and even if it's true about millenials and younger generations, well then maybe their boomer parents should have raised them better

Frankly, I'd say the millennials and younger generations are much more responsible and less entitled than we were (Gen X).
During my teen years it was the height of fashion to slack off, have no direction, nor any ambition; all the while falling back on mom and dad for support.

Oh well, whatever, nevermind.....

 

[mas0764]

If a player (any player) is not willing to work to earn their spot I do wonder if that player is willing to work hard enough to become a top player. It takes a lot of work to become a top NHL player. Talent alone will not get it done usually. Over the years we have seen some very talented guys go from team to team and then out of the NHL. We have also seen talented guys drafted but never consistently producing due to lack of consistent effort. I hope Krav shows that he is a great talent and a hard working player.

Certainly worth wondering.

But Kravtsov should get all the chances first to rehabilitate himself, even if it means preferential treatment over - gasp - Dryden Hunt’s roster spot or the irreplaceable Sammy Blais’s third line minutes.

 

[smoneil]

3) He scored a goal, more than you can say for the scrub Gauthier who made it over him. He’s a one dimensional goal scorer who doesn’t score goals lol.

Not that it matters, because Krav wasn't in consideration for the "13th forward who will sit most nights" role, but want to guess who drew the penalty your boy scored on? Pretty sure we scored on another penalty drawn by Gaut in the same game.

 

[smoneil]

I could care less about what Blais feels he’s earned, by your own silly rules if the coach tells him to play on the fourth line he damn well better play on the fourth line or else.

Right? Shut up and follow orders? Blais has earned what the coach has told him he’s earned and all that? Or are the rules just for Kravtsov to follow?

The fact that you concede that players “accept,” a double standard for a second overall pick pretty much ends the entire conversation. Yes, they should do it for a 9th overall pick too. Same order of magnitude more important that Kravtsov pan out than we appease Blais’s feelings.

Just got back from a late-night Walmart run, and the midnight Walmart creatures weren't even as ridiculous as your desperate attempt to justify an unproven prospect deserving a spot just because.

 

[smoneil]

It is the actual definition of Drury and Gallant’s jobs, among many tasks, to develop their talent for the future.

Sometimes in modern sports that involves coddling, as much as old fogies don’t like it. It’s very much their job.

No one denies Blais is better situated today for a third line checking role than Kravtsov. It’s also not entirely relevant.

Reconfigure their team, please.

Kreider should have been third line LW, Blais fourth line, give Kravtsov the opportunity to show something first. If it doesn’t work out then we can talk changes after. Oh no, what will we do if Blais is upset? Heaven forfend we upset a career high 30 point scorer who is a RFA at year’s end with zero upside in favor of a potential first liner.

Gosh, what would Dryden Hunt think if Kravtsov made the team over him? Could we dare risk it?

You know that Blais is only 3 and a half years older than Krav, right? If his career is just about over for "only" scoring 15 points in 36 games, what would you say about a guy just a couple of years younger who has only put up...checks math, carries the one, divides by pi...well that can't be right....a future first liner?....a whopping four points?

No player is bigger than the team, and this kid hasn't even established himself as a real player yet.

 

[smoneil]

Certainly worth wondering.

But Kravtsov should get all the chances first to rehabilitate himself, even if it means preferential treatment over - gasp - Dryden Hunt’s roster spot or the irreplaceable Sammy Blais’s third line minutes.

That's exactly what they offered him with first line minutes in Hartford. Kravtsov was too proud to take it. This isn't a case where he's dominated Hartford and had nothing left to prove at that level, either. He struggled hard in the AHL and finished under .5ppg. You want to be treated like a future first liner? Put up a ppg in the AHL. Chytil did. Barron did. Stop acting like they threw him off the team and kicked his puppy. He, according even to you, needs more development. So they sent him to the league that literally exists to develop players. Kravtsov is not a victim here.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Not that it matters, because Krav wasn't in consideration for the "13th forward who will sit most nights" role, but want to guess who drew the penalty your boy scored on? Pretty sure we scored on another penalty drawn by Gaut in the same game.

On the makeup call for the missed tackle on Kravtsov there was also a missed slash on Kravtsovs hand that he seemed to be in pain from. Everyone complained about how horribly reffed that game was, so I think we should put more value in who actually scored than who those refs awarded calls to

 

[smoneil]

On the makeup call for the missed tackle on Kravtsov there was also a missed slash on Kravtsovs hand that he seemed to be in pain from. Everyone complained about how horribly reffed that game was, so I think we should put more value in who actually scored than who those refs awarded calls to

I can't even with you guys, haha. It's surreal. So not only is Kravtsov the best player in the world without having to play better than any of the top nine, but now he gets credit for drawing a penalty for an infraction to someone else? I bet he invented sliced bread and really wrote Shakespeare's plays, too, right?

You know what the real world calls someone who "would have been amazing" if not for the "insert a litany of excuses here"? A failure. The main problem with Kravtsov is that he clearly sees himself the way you see him, and he's never going to achieve a damn thing until he starts thinking otherwise.

I've got to get to bed, though--have to be at work early tomorrow to take care of some things. Thought about calling my boss and saying "hey, btw, f*** you and I'm going home unless I get promoted to a Deanship," but formal work emails can be so tedious so I didn't bother.

If the KraviStanners want to continue the debate, feel free to just copy and paste Person B's comments from my earlier post in response to your arguments.

 

[n8]

View attachment 471552

"Krav, real players wear blood, not Bart"

"I won't report to Hartford!!!!"
"Don't have a cow, man"

 

[LyNX27]

Just got back from a late-night Walmart run, and the midnight Walmart creatures weren't even as ridiculous as your desperate attempt to justify an unproven prospect deserving a spot just because.

Yourself included?

 

[gravey9]

I'm sorry but Vitali is a border line NHL player at this moment in his career. Yes, he has lots of tools and tons of potential. I love his raw skill set. But he's on the bubble. The idea that a 21 year old player who never been an NHL regular would refuse a stint in the minors is absurd. Just absurd. I don't care what the org has told you in the past. The coach gets to choose his team and who he thinks is the best lineup and if he thinks you've got some conditioning or work to do to put you in an ideal spot to succeed whey is that an issue? Hasn't Gallant had success with other young budding talent like Barkov and Huberdeau and countless others? Doesn't he know a thing or two? Why is this remotely an issue? It should not be. Vitali needs to gain the new guy's trust and he's a 21 year old kid with very little track record in the NHL. And Gallant had no desire to stow Kravtsov on a 4th line getting only 8-10 min a game. I really think all the people yelling at the Rangers org has to do with this idea that Kravtsov needs to be coddled because he threw tantrums in the past. I dunno. I think Kravtsov actually needs a coach that treats him like an adult. No BS just here's wat you're doing well, here's what we need you to work on. Simple, straight forward approach. Gallant is exactly the perfect coach for Kravy to break in with. would have been ideal. But it's not going to be. It's a huge missed opportunity for him in his life. And it's a shame.

 

[LOFIN]

3) He scored a goal, more than you can say for the scrub Gauthier who made it over him. He’s a one dimensional goal scorer who doesn’t score goals lol.

So you think it would've been better if Kravtsov took Gauthiers place? Being scratched on most nights, and play as the 12th/13th forward in the 4th line?

I think the team absolutely did the thing that made the most sense: get him to play big minutes in the AHL and wait for a top-9 spot in the line up, instead of sitting in the press box.

 

[Idlerlee]

So then why is it such a foreign concept for them to make an exception if it’s forward-thinking?

Certainly worth wondering.

But Kravtsov should get all the chances first to rehabilitate himself, even if it means preferential treatment over - gasp - Dryden Hunt’s roster spot or the irreplaceable Sammy Blais’s third line minutes.

Kravstov has made himself a relatively insufferable person to deal with following the attitude he's been displaying.

Allegedly its claimed that he himself feels like he deserves to play in the NHL, and in the top6 no less. He didn't even make the roster, with TWO AHL players ahead of him in the pecking order.

He was given a message: Go down to the AHL, work hard on your conditioning and you will be back quickly". Instead of doing that, he requests to be traded away from the NYR, refuses to show up with Wolfpack and leaves for Russia. He pulled this same stunt in 2019 when he used his European out option and went to play in the KHL instead of the AHL.

The common theme here is that Kravstov sees himself as a deserving NHL player and will outright refuse to humble himself and put the work in to actually prove himself. Instead believing that he is ready now and everyone out of the way please and thankyou.

Kravstov is running away from his problems instead of opting to admit that he's got things to work on, and should just do what the organization tell him, go to the AHL and work on his conditioning and other lingering issues that prevent him from securing a roster spot and earn his way into the team.

Being traded is probably for the best. Having players with such fragile egos is not good in a player group that will see a lot of deep valleys, saving them from having to pamper to a tantrum king at the same time as well.

As for being given a chance now.. well.. No. If you're saying that you don't want to be part of the team, you don't get to take that back because a window opens. That disrespect he can take with him to his next AHL adventure.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Remember when Jonathan Drouin was doing something similar back in 2016? Tampa didn't trade him for peanuts. They reconciled, let him play for a year where he put up 53 points in 73 games and then traded him for Mikhail Sergachev, a top-4 defenseman. A defenseman who was an integral part of their 2 Cup wins, by the way.

I know people don't want to hear this, and this doesn't change the fact that Kravtsov has himself to blame for the situation he's in, but it's in Rangers best interest if they reconcile, up his value and then trade him for something useful next year instead of letting him sit out in Russia, and settling for a 2nd rounder.

That said: f*** Kravtsov for not reporting.

 

[LOFIN]

I know people don't want to hear this, and this doesn't change the fact that Kravtsov has himself to blame for the situation he's in, but it's in Rangers best interest if they reconcile, up his value and then trade him for something useful next year instead of letting him sit out in Russia, and settling for a 2nd rounder.

I don't think anyone disagrees this is what should happen. But it should not happen by a way of offering Kravtsov a spot in the first team roster now after he has failed to report to the AHL. I would rather take that 2nd rounder in that case, instead of setting a horrible example to the rest of the prospects in the system.

The real failure was not trading Kravtsov before the camp.

 

[Peltz]

I don't think anyone disagrees this is what should happen. But it should not happen by a way of offering Kravtsov a spot in the first team roster now after he has failed to report to the AHL. I would rather take that 2nd rounder in that case, instead of setting a horrible example to the rest of the prospects in the system.

The real failure was not trading Kravtsov before the camp.

Agreed on all counts

 

[duhmetreE]

Remember when Jonathan Drouin was doing something similar back in 2016? Tampa didn't trade him for peanuts. They reconciled, let him play for a year where he put up 53 points in 73 games and then traded him for Mikhail Sergachev, a top-4 defenseman. A defenseman who was an integral part of their 2 Cup wins, by the way.

I know people don't want to hear this, and this doesn't change the fact that Kravtsov has himself to blame for the situation he's in, but it's in Rangers best interest if they reconcile, up his value and then trade him for something useful next year instead of letting him sit out in Russia, and settling for a 2nd rounder.

That said: f*** Kravtsov for not reporting.

I get what you're saying but the problem in this scenario is, a forward was traded for a defenseman... We don't really need to add to our defensemen. Would a team be willing to give up a 1st in this upcoming draft? maybe? A problem child swap? meh.

IMO we have to add to him to get the young center we need. Let him build up his value again and trade him in the offseason with one of our defensemen.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I get what you're saying but the problem in this scenario is, a forward was traded for a defenseman... We don't really need to add to our defensemen. Would a team be willing to give up a 1st in this upcoming draft? maybe? A problem child swap? meh.

IMO we have to add to him to get the young center we need. Let him build up his value again and trade him in the offseason with one of our defensemen.

Sorry, but if this was your takeaway, you missed the point.

Drouin wasn't traded the moment he was walking away from the team. If they had done so, they would have gotten a significantly worse return. Instead, they reconciled, had him put up a 50 point season and THEN traded him for value. Whatever the return is in terms of position is meaningless.

The Rangers are better off having Kravtsov play a full season, put up 40-50 points (ideally) and then trade him for a guy we can actually use, rather than another magic bean on day 2 of the draft.

I don't expect that to happen because as always this org will f*** it up and we will never get anything useful in these scenarios, despite other teams being able to do so. I give Drury 2 years before judging his tenure as a GM, but this is his first big test early on. It's up to him to maximize the return here.

 

[duhmetreE]

Sorry, but if this was your takeaway, you missed the point.

Drouin wasn't traded the moment he was walking away from the team. If they had done so, they would have gotten a significantly worse return. Instead, they reconciled, had him put up a 50 point season and THEN traded him for value. Whatever the return is in terms of position is meaningless.

The Rangers are better off having Kravtsov play a full season, put up 40-50 points (ideally) and then trade him for a guy we can actually use, rather than another magic bean on day 2 of the draft.

I don't expect that to happen because as always this org will f*** it up and we will never get anything useful in these scenarios, despite other teams being able to do so. I give Drury 2 years before judging his tenure as a GM, but this is his first big test early on. It's up to him to maximize the return here.

yeah, my point was he's a forward. our need is forward. a problem child swap is the only thing I can see happening for a forward -or we can add to get the guy we like.

I'm not disputing what you're saying.. I'm adding to it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

yeah, my point was he's a forward. our need is forward. a problem child swap is the only thing I can see happening for a forward -or we can add to get the guy we like.

I'm not disputing what you're saying.. I'm adding to it.

Gotcha. Sorry, I've been dealing with a lot of morons on social media lately so I was worried you misread my post

But yeah, trade him for something we need. Of value. If the Rangers think Kravtsov has top-6 upside (and it's not really that crazy to think that), try to get his value up to a point where you get a similar return. Either a top-6 center, or a top-6 winger.

 

[LOFIN]

Sorry, but if this was your takeaway, you missed the point.

Drouin wasn't traded the moment he was walking away from the team. If they had done so, they would have gotten a significantly worse return. Instead, they reconciled, had him put up a 50 point season and THEN traded him for value. Whatever the return is in terms of position is meaningless.

The Rangers are better off having Kravtsov play a full season, put up 40-50 points (ideally) and then trade him for a guy we can actually use, rather than another magic bean on day 2 of the draft.

I don't expect that to happen because as always this org will f*** it up and we will never get anything useful in these scenarios, despite other teams being able to do so. I give Drury 2 years before judging his tenure as a GM, but this is his first big test early on. It's up to him to maximize the return here.

Drouin was in a heck of lot better position than Kravtsov is now. They both joined their NHL team D+1. Drouin put up 32 points in 70 games for Tampa, Kravtsov put up 15 points in 39 games for Hartford before leaving for Russia. In their 2nd years, Drouin was demoted to the AHL, put up a trade request. Kravtsov played a full year in Russia, came over here and score 4 points in 20 games. And now he refuses to report to the AHL. It's one thing making a trade request, and doing so after actually having some decree of success in the NHL vs what Kravtsov is pulling off right now.

Like I said, on principle you are correct. We should focus on getting as much for Kravtsov as we can. The problem is, the optics of just giving him a roster spot now after his stunt would look TERRIBLE to other prospects in the system, and for the organization as a whole. If the price of holding our integrity here is getting a lesser price for Kravtsov, so be it. The mistake was done during the summer, only so much you can do to fix it now.

 

[MrAlmost]

I was halfway between the 2 sides here when it first happened. Now, with the players out and knowing he would have been called up before the end of the week, like I originally thought, he is just kinda an ass. All he had to do was play like 2 or 3 games in Hartford and now he would probably be in the lineup. Like I said before, premature. Just trade him. Add Georgiev and Hajek with him and make a nice package for a real player. Haha

 

[CLW]

Based on that article, Kravtsov misunderstood the signals. They were clearing a path for him and he failed to make it stick. Unless you consistently prove you are a top player, you don't get the benefit of the doubt and have to prove you are worthy of the spot. Definitely a failure on both sides to clearly communicate their understanding of the situation.

I thought Kravtsov completely failed to understand the situation the first time as well. Call it paranoia or whatever, but going through the AHL for a stint does not mean management have their knives out and are plotting against you.