"Chytil is not what he was when he first arrived. Puljujarvi is not what he was when he first arrived. JT Miller is not what he was when he first arrived. Lafrenier is not what he was when he first arrived. Kakko is not what he was when he first arrived. Zach Hymen is not what he was when he first arrived. Cale Makar is not what he was when he first arrived. Joel Farabee is not what he was when he first arrived. Bo Horvat is not what he was when he first arrived. The list goes on for DAYS. Because players develop and continue to develop throughout their career, whether they do so at the AHL level or NHL level. "
this is the only part i'll address. yes those players improved, most drastically. obviously 18/19/20 year olds improve...i never said otherwise and i'm not sure that could even be considered a rational thought. what i guess you've missed, and is critically important, is that those steps are physical. unless you're trying to argue the respective teams involved dictated rep for rep, meal for meal, and then lifted / took / adhered to dietary commitments on those players behalf that delivered those results, you're barking up the wrong tree. because those players could all see, think, and react to the game at the highest pace they could play at before they arrived. what then "developed" is the pace they could operate at or physical level they compete at changed as they morphed from teenagers into their early 20s...i mean if you wanna say orgs differentiate themselves in that area knock yourself out. what any of those guys were upon arrival and who they are today is agnostic of who drafted them. that can impact when they crack a lineup, the role they initially step into, inflate or deflate overall production, expedite or extend the time it takes to reach their relative peak. but not a single person listed would ultimately become any different a level of player in any other organization. some could produce more in situations ideally suited to them or just benefit from being on a stronger team or moderately overachieve in a culture/coaching relationship that was a perfect fit, some could appear worse in a situation that exposed their worst qualities or just be underappreciated playing for a poorly managed org, or marginalized by winding up in a poor cultural fit. but in a vacuum, any one of those players is not going to have any meaningful deviation from the peak they ultimately reach regardless of organization. you are who you are, you define who you are, you write your own story. these are pro athletes...i don't think you have been around or appreciate the mental edge that exists as the difference between the guys that make it and the ones that dont. there's idno how many thousand guys in the echl, ncaa d3, even some mens leagues that could skate with nhl'ers in a summer league or practics and not look out of pace at all in terms of size/skill/skating. but they're a world apart from that level when it means something. which is all a long way of saying you seem to think these players were turned into what they became by a team that gave them advice on things to work on. nice of those teams, but if you've been around guys that became elite players before they reached the nhl or after, i think you'd have a very different perspective on who's driving the bus. they're different because they're built different mentally, there's an internal drive that places them in the elite in a league made up of the elite in their profession. there's a lot more guys than you'd imagine that can skate a lap as fast as chris kreider. there's a reason he's in the nhl and they aren't, and its not the new york rangers development model.
Sorry that's nonsensical.
There is physical progress, intuitive, mental and technical progress.
"you seem to think these players were turned into what they became by a team that gave them advice on things to work on. nice of those teams, but if you've been around guys that became elite players before they reached the nhl or after, i think you'd have a very different perspective on who's driving the bus."
Once again, you're gaslighting. But also, "if you've been around guys that became elite players before they reached the nhl OR after"... I have and college players and highschool players of various sports and I have played up to college in baseball and up to highschool in football. And I have numerous friends that played hockey in both. I have two friends who are minor league baseball scouts. And one of my dearest friends managed the AHL Rockford rink for many years. I and friends have also played in men's league in Chelsea with players like Glen Anderson back in the early aughts and had some very in depth and wonderful discussions. So I’ve ive been around high levels of sports much of my life. And you are still way off the mark. They would all scratch their heads in bewilderment if they read your argument. I’d rather this not turn into a D measuring contest, but your assumptions about me are so far inaccurate and id put my experience against yours any day of the week. You say things like “mental edge” but I do not think you truly know what it means.
"Who's driving the bus" -- It's the clubs job to put players in the best situation for them specifically to succeed. And it's the clubs job to provide them with the coaching they require individually. Do some guys do it prior to entering the NHL? Sure. But usually, that also has to do with good coaching in early stages. AHL and NHL coaches still coach everything from good habits, to technical aspects to skating to mental and hockey IQ. Being around experienced players also helps young players improves, because experienced teammates are also "coaches" to a degree.
I have no idea why you would even include "if you've been around guys that became elite players before they reached the nhl or after....." ----- Well, it's pretty clear from your argument that you have NOT been around either, because if you had you would hopefully, likely, not have the opinion you continue to put forth. And on the small chance you were around a player or two, it does not at all seem like you gleamed any insight into the process regardless.
Of course ultimately, if a player doesn't want to be coached, doesn't want to take advice, then no amount of coaching can help. But that is the exact same as any other student-teacher relationship in any other field. But this has little to do with what we are actually talking about here in most cases because usually, to a large degree, most players want to develop and take to coaching. Which then falls back on to their natural ability, early training and ultimate potential. But none of this means teams don't develop their players.
"Turned into" : again, it's a partnership between the team and player. They both have roles to play. Including coaching. Why would they provide coaches, tutelage and why would they spend money and hours trying to facilitate player development if they played such a small roll as you suggest?
Again, have whatever fringe, outsider opinion you want. It's your right. But please don't attempt to imply that you have direct knowledge of the process and "this is how it is" when your argument is so clearly outside the realm of reality. If you would suggest what you are suggesting to any professional sport athlete, to any college or highschool athlete, you would be laughed out of the room. I say that genuinely. And if you do not believe me, please go talk to any coach in any team sport anywhere. Well, maybe aside from simply Dad's who coach little league, but even their noses would likely curl, eyes scrunched, wondering where in the world you got such a ridiculous theory.
Oh, and if I sound condescending, it's because I have now spent upwards of 20 minutes or so combined responding to an absolutely absurd and nonsensical theory on player development only to read responses made up of pure assumption, semantic manipulation and fallacious logic. And it's clear at this point that you do not have experience with any of this. And your insight into this subject seems limited. I tried to correct your misinformed opinion, but clearly that isn't going anywhere.
So take care and if you do watch hockey, well, I at least hope you enjoy it.
