Post-Game Talk: Krak

[JHS]

The guys were two games away from the Stanley Cup Finals last season when the team quite clearly figuratively ran out of steam.

The last three games after giving up the lead in game 3 were a broken team with a broken spirit.

So it doesn’t surprise me at all that certain veterans on the Rangers aren’t pushing at 100 percent in November. Kreider, Trouba, bread want to all be healthy and energized when it matters.

There is a human element. No player gives their best effort every single game. You’d be sleeping 12 hours a night

Yes- this is the correct perspective to take!

 

[MrAlmost]

I think people need to realize that Laf, Chytil and Kakko suck.

 

[Psycho for Perreault]

I think people need to realize that Laf, Chytil and Kakko suck.

Mika Panarin and Kreider when it’s not 5v4 are worse.

 

[MrAlmost]

Mika Panarin and Kreider when it’s not 5v4 are worse.

No, they aren't. They just get paid more and are older. Youth doesn't equal "good". They are slow, except Chytil, but he is dumb. If they are lucky enough to have the puck, they just rim it around the boards until they get tired or lose possession. If any of them do shoot, it gets blocked or deflected cause they take an eternity to release the puck. Hughes and other young players get more ice cause they look like they deserve more ice. These guys look like they deserve a ticket home.

But hey, they are young. There is always a chance.

 

[tomobson]

The top six needs a player with a shooter mentality and the only player the rangers have that fits that bill is Chytil. The bottom six will be complete trash without him down there but the top six needs to start producing at even strength. Panarin/Trocheck/Chytil or Chytil/Mika/Kakko. It's a shame Laf has been completely lost this season. I'm not sure what to do with him at this point. The only hope is he starts to put it together again towards the end of the season like last season.

edit: break up Mika/Kreider please.

 

[will1066]

This situation with the kids is also a self-perpetuating cycle that they cannot get out of unfortunately unless the team completely implodes, and they are not. They're managing to hang around in the middle of the pack, aided by other supposed contending teams that are also just floating above water. Gallant is really fortunate that the other contenders are floundering early on. But being in the hunt, the desperation to win games ramps up, and Gallant is trying to save his own skin and will ride-or-die with the vets. The other thing is that these kids just do not have any chemistry with the these vets.

People complained about Quinn. It's even worse now with Gallant.

 

[Off Sides]

Panarin at even strength has been on for 12 for and 20 goals against, he is a minus -8

5on5 he is at ~40% in the goals for/goals against ratio

Him, Trouba, Miller have been awful both at even strength and 5on5.

 

[will1066]

That doesn't matter. It's not improving the franchise's long term growth and success. It's hampering it. See this is the problem. There's a notion that this team is somehow winning a Cup this or next year and at all costs. They're not.

The league has caught up if not surpassed this team's style. Pre-pandemic, the flowing high-low cycle, east-west offensive play was innovative. The defensemen didn't stay still but rotated in and out with three forwards. Opponents didn't know how to react. Teams now have experience with it and also play like that -- but with solid fundamentals in place, not like this group.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Gallant has to go. This team is massively underachieving.

The fact that barry trotz is just sitting here available is maddening.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

We are giving points away/lucky to get a point. We don’t play fast enough.

EdJo might say some wacky shit but he’s right about other teams. The game has changed and as usual we’re behind the curve. It’s not some stupid revolution we need, it’s playing fast and as a 5 man unit. Doing the fundamentals right. It’s like we’re right back to AV land of riding the vets and lackadaisical play.

PP1 played 5 mins last night. FIVE. PP2 had like 30 seconds. There’s waiting your turn, and not getting a turn. The vets were burnt out last year by game 3 of the SCF. What are they gonna be at the end of this year playing 25 mins a night and 8-10 mins more than every other forward?

I don’t even know what kind of coach this team needs. It’s a constant revolving door of falling back into the country club style. They even did it to Torts.

I even more don’t know what to do with the kids. They probably need more minutes but they suck. They don’t produce. Maybe they get it eventually but we have been very patient. They’re still too slow with not just skating but with their brains as well.

It’s becoming obvious something needs to change here. The coach is what always goes but as others have said, it’s not just the coach.

 

[will1066]

We are giving points away/lucky to get a point. We don’t play fast enough.

EdJo might say some wacky shit but he’s right about other teams. The game has changed and as usual we’re behind the curve. It’s not some stupid revolution we need, it’s playing fast and as a 5 man unit. Doing the fundamentals right. It’s like we’re right back to AV land of riding the vets and lackadaisical play.

PP1 played 5 mins last night. FIVE. PP2 had like 30 seconds. There’s waiting your turn, and not getting a turn. The vets were burnt out last year by game 3 of the SCF. What are they gonna be at the end of this year playing 25 mins a night and 8-10 mins more than every other forward?

I don’t even know what kind of coach this team needs. It’s a constant revolving door of falling back into the country club style. They even did it to Torts.

I even more don’t know what to do with the kids. They probably need more minutes but they suck. They don’t produce. Maybe they get it eventually but we have been very patient. They’re still too slow with not just skating but with their brains as well.

It’s becoming obvious something needs to change here. The coach is what always goes but as others have said, it’s not just the coach.

If the kids don't get minutes, they don't improve. If they don't produce with the limited amount of ice time they're given, they don't get more. It's a self-perpetuating cycle. Drury is not a dumb guy. He is trying to steer toward harder players but his hands are tied to the contracts his predecessors handed out. And once you've spent this amount of money, you want to get your return no matter how hard reality is telling you otherwise. Then you have to go all in on win-now with this "window" and go out and get an experienced head coach, who went to the Final with an expansion team no less, to be able to walk this tightrope of riding these expensive contracts with kid development to winning.

 

[Brief Candle]

My issue with firing Turk is this: We go through coaches like toilet paper here. At what point does it stop being the coaches fault? By all rights, if it was about who is best on paper, the Leafs would have steamrolled everyone for the last several years. A lot of personnel issues are inherited. That goes for Dreary as well (I couldn't stand him when he played for us), and even then I'm willing to give him a pass for now.

The fact is that this team looks entirely lost. What worked for us last season has been scouted and figured out, and it seems like they have no way of adjusting. However, even if they fired Turk and hired Trotz, I really wonder how much would change when it seems like we have a significant number of players who refuse to adjust their playing styles to what the coaches are asking of them.

If you ask me, it seems more like a culture problem than a coaching one, even if the coaching staff is also to blame. Not having at least some of the kids out for at least ONE shift in o.t. was disgraceful.

 

[NYRFAN218]

I've been in the they've been playing well and have blown points and/or had bad luck and that it would change camp but last night's game doesn't fit in that category. Just bad top to bottom with the exception of very few players (Igor, Fox, Gauthier the few that come to mind.)

I'll let it go as a one-off but that was objectively bad. I think they have issues for sure that need to be addressed. Jones has to get back in, still not convinced and haven't been since he got called up that Schneider is NHL ready, Goodrow and Vesey have no business being in the top 6, etc. Regardless, I'm not really concerned. For as "bad" as they've been or the results have been, they're 2 points out of 2nd in the division nearly a quarter of the way through.

Kreider - Mika - Kakko
Panarin - Trocheck - Kravtsov
Lafreniere - Chytil - Gauthier
Blais/Carpenter - Goodrow/Carpenter - Vesey

Those are my lines at this point. Wouldn't hate flipping Kakko and Kravtsov but the kids together aren't working and I think Laf at this point is best on the left.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I guess if breaking up the kid line gets Kakko going again and Vesey off the top line so be it.
I just thought they would be our best chance at getting some of the possession game going and drawing some penalties at the very least.

The reality is that no matter how good that line plays, they will never get the ice time they deserve or be used in situations where their combined skills are most effective.

 

[TominNC]

Kids had a bad game. Some others played ok, some didn't. Another wasted point. Onward we go.

 

[bl02]

I just hope we are not back to the country club Rangers of old. Maybe I'm expecting too much but seems like most nights we are the easier team to play against.

 

[will1066]

Kids had a bad game. Some others played ok, some didn't. Another wasted point. Onward we go.

I agree. Maybe they didn't deserve more ice time just in last night's case. I bailed with 9 mins left in the 3rd. Chytil had an awful game. Kakko had that 1 good chance in close. Laf was invisible. Caved in all game hogtied to the 3rd D pair.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Devils handled their top picks like top picks, developed them like top picks, and now they're blossoming and running rampage on the league.

Rangers handled their top picks like 5th-7th round picks, developed them like 5th-7th round picks, and now they're struggling.

What a complete f***ing shocker.

It's also possible that we just got unlucky with who our top picks were.

I don't care how much opportunity and ice time you give Lafreniere or Kakko, I don't see either of them being in remotely the same stratosphere as Jack Hughes.

I like both of them a lot as players, but I've never seen anything at the NHL level that indicates they're going to be anything more than high end support players at best. Gabe Landeskog level players. Good players, important players, but not the stars to lead your team. I'd love to be wrong but I'm starting to think this is just the case, I can only blame the coach and organization for so long when the guys on the ice are showing literally nothing to indicate they can be star level players.

Other young players at least show flashes. When Hughes was 18 and 115 pounds as a rookie and struggled he still showed enough to make you go "this kid is going to be a star in a few years." What have we seen from Laf or Kakko ever to indicate that aside from the fact that they're our top draft picks? I like them both and I'm nowhere near closing the book on them but I'm really struggling to remain hopeful they're going to be stars.

 

[BS45]

I know this is going to blow up this board when I say this but someone has to tell Panarin that if he doesnt start shooting on the Power Play he will sit. We need Panarin to start shooting to free everyone up. They just leave him alone because everyone including my wife knows he is not shooting the puck!! It is killing the Power Play. I would revamp it and split the minutes more evenly.
PP#1-
Kreider- Trocheck- Laffy
Mika - Fox

Chytil - Goodrow- KK
Panarin- Miller

 

[hackeyman]

Chytil was out there

Please don't confuse them with facts.

 

[turcotte8]

Looks like going to bed after the first period was the right move.

 

[will1066]

It's also possible that we just got unlucky with who our top picks were.

I don't care how much opportunity and ice time you give Lafreniere or Kakko, I don't see either of them being in remotely the same stratosphere as Jack Hughes.

I like both of them a lot as players, but I've never seen anything at the NHL level that indicates they're going to be anything more than high end support players at best. Gabe Landeskog level players. Good players, important players, but not the stars to lead your team. I'd love to be wrong but I'm starting to think this is just the case, I can only blame the coach and organization for so long when the guys on the ice are showing literally nothing to indicate they can be star level players.

Other young players at least show flashes. When Hughes was 18 and 115 pounds as a rookie and struggled he still showed enough to make you go "this kid is going to be a star in a few years." What have we seen from Laf or Kakko ever to indicate that aside from the fact that they're our top draft picks? I like them both and I'm nowhere near closing the book on them but I'm really struggling to remain hopeful they're going to be stars.

They need to stay together and they need to be given ice time. They also need to continue to man into their bodies, no matter how well Hughes is carrying on with that teenaged frame of his. They come from solid foundational hockey backgrounds and their careers have run into veterans who've decided that improvisation is going to be their mantra.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Not much room for change right now so the team is just gonna have to work through these issues. Gonna be a tough slog but the team will be better for it if they do

 

[IronBloodedLion]

The loser point is making us look better than we actually are right now.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I don't understand any of these hot takes where we're calling out a player, a young kid, or anyone. The issue is so obviously systemic. We got so many bad habits out there it's hard to watch. Igor is forced to stand on his head for most of the game. We don't take the body in front of our own net. Just waving sticks around. The middle of the ice in our own zone is just so soft. We manage the puck very poorly 5v5. We don't seem to win any battles 5v5 in front of the other teams net. Every play goes to the outside. We're getting nothing done at 5v5 at all in the o zone because we're too busy playing like the harlem globetrotters. We take mulitple o zone penalties. We look like the fat bloated Rangers before Renney and then Torts. Just everyone out here trying to coast through the regular season. Not one single line out there consistently doing the little things you need to do to win games. This team needs a major reset. Or they need to be broken up. They're sleep walking through the season right now. It's hard to find a team with this much skill that plays a more frustrating, lazy game. It's not just that teams are outright skating circles around them at 5v5 for periods at a time, it's just the level of awareness, attention to detail is constantly creeping into their game. It's clear whatever Gallant and staff are doing is not getting through.

And if Gallant comes out and starts talking about travel or injuries or whatever, it'll be real frustrating.

You are 1000% correct. And the fact that the same problems have existed through multiple coaches speaks volumes. Rangers have no discipline, no concept of fundamentals, no accountability nor any kind of structure. Perfect example is how so many players come here and suddenly develop passitis or stop using their bodies and start poke checking.