Value of: Kotkaniemi extension

[Moosetache]

Couple things from this thread I have thoughts on that most of you if not all won't care about:

1. staal will be gone after next year, freeing up 6 mil a year. If he is here it will be on a low $ year by year deal I would bet.

2. I'd be surprised if the Canes signed Trocheck for what he could get on the open market. Someone will pay him 7 mil for 5 years or longer. Drury is also an option who could fill a Center role moving forward. He will be 29 in July and they dont really subscribe to long term deals in their 30's.

3. Nino is an interesting case. He will be 30 to begin next season but I think could be had for less and shorter term than Trocheck. I think that one is a possibility.

4. Some chatter I heard about Scheiffele possibly has run his course in Winnipeg. Canes would surely be very involved in that if it was true come this summer.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

And this is why I mention that KK is an unusual case. Yes, of course his QO is $6.1 and is he wants to try and hold out for that or bank on a team signing him for close to that as a UFA then he’s more than allowed to do that… but he knows, his agent knows, and the rest of the world knows he’s not worth close to that amount.

Canes did him a solid by getting him out of MTL and into a good situation while getting him a lot of money this year. It doesn’t mean he’s now going to sign a DeAngelo deal with us or something but something in the 4x4 range seems about right.

I don't agree with this assessment at all. What makes it such an unusual case? Timo Meier has an eventual QO of 10M.

He is not going to sign for over 2M less than his QO, it's as simple as that. He's only 21, I can think of quite a few teams that would give him a shot if Carolina decides not to qualify him. Minimum he gets if staying in Carolina ~5M, otherwise he will get that elsewhere as a UFA

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I don't agree with this assessment at all. He is not going to sign for over 2M less than his QO, it's as simple as that. He's only 21, I can think of quite a few teams that would give him a shot if Carolina decides not to qualify him. Minimum he gets if staying in Carolina ~5M, otherwise he will get that elsewhere as a UFA

Well I don’t agree with your assessment so we’re even.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Well I don’t agree with your assessment so we’re even.

Why exactly? Again he's 21 (will be 22 for next year), players of his potential NEVER hit the open market, teams will be lining up around the corner to add him

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Why exactly? Again he's 21 (will be 22 for next year), players of his potential NEVER hit the open market, teams will be lining up around the corner to add him

And how much are they going to pay him? No one’s giving him $6m AAV. So maybe 4x4 is a touch low but 4x$4.5 is a reasonable middle ground considering the overpay Carolina just gave him. Him and his agent will take that into account. He would be toiling away on a garbage MTL team right now for much less money if the Canes didn’t rescue his ass.

 

[57special]

I wonder how much Nino likes it in CAR(I would imagine a lot), and what deal he could be persuaded to sign for, knowing that he wouldn't be a big priority for the Canes? 4 x 4M? 3 x 4.5? Or would he go to somewhere like Seattle for more? He's not perfect, but is a big body that can score a bit.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

And how much are they going to pay him? No one’s giving him $6m AAV. So maybe 4x4 is a touch low but 4x$4.5 is a reasonable middle ground considering the overpay Carolina just gave him. Him and his agent will take that into account. He would be toiling away on a garbage MTL team right now for much less money if the Canes didn’t rescue his ass.

Maybe not 6M but 5M seems pretty reasonable for a team desperate enough to offer. His "overpay to acquire him" has absolutely nothing to do with contract negotiations. You are really reaching here, it's pretty funny

 

[Mickey Marner]

It would be funny if Montreal offersheets him.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Maybe not 6M but 5M seems pretty reasonable for a team desperate enough to offer. His "overpay to acquire him" has absolutely nothing to do with contract negotiations. You are really reaching here, it's pretty funny

I think your posts are funny too but more in a sad funny kind of way. It’s pretty likely that the $6.1 overpay comes up as part of the negotiations.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I think your posts are funny too but more in a sad funny kind of way. It’s pretty likely that the $6.1 overpay comes up as part of the negotiations.

I don't get your logic, you are trying to justify why a player should take significantly less than what they are promised and your justification is "well they should feel privileged for Carolina saving them." That is such a bass ackwards way of thinking.

Whereas my reasoning has logic to it, the player is under no obligation to take substantially less than what was promised to them, if Carolina doesn't want to qualify him then there are loads of teams lining up for a 21 year old with 1C potential

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I don't get your logic, you are trying to justify why a player should take significantly less than what they are promised and your justification is "well they should feel privileged for Carolina saving them." That is such a bass ackwards way of thinking.

Whereas my reasoning has logic to it, the player is under no obligation to take substantially less than what was promised to them, if Carolina doesn't want to qualify him then there are loads of teams lining up for a 21 year old with 1C potential

Ok then, I guess he’s gonna get a billion dollars then.

 

[Colezuki]

Ok then, I guess he’s gonna get a billion dollars then.

I guess we should all be so fortunate to live in Carolina lol

 

[Jared Dunn]

I don't get your logic, you are trying to justify why a player should take significantly less than what they are promised and your justification is "well they should feel privileged for Carolina saving them." That is such a bass ackwards way of thinking.

Whereas my reasoning has logic to it, the player is under no obligation to take substantially less than what was promised to them, if Carolina doesn't want to qualify him then there are loads of teams lining up for a 21 year old with 1C potential

Nothing he has done in Montreal or Carolina shows he has 1C potential. If he wants to get near what he's making right now it's basically gonna be Seattle, Arizona or ironically, back to Montreal. I wouldn't be surprised if he takes a 2 year deal around 4 to see if he can up his value

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Nothing he has done in Montreal or Carolina shows he has 1C potential. If he wants to get near what he's making right now it's basically gonna be Seattle, Arizona or ironically, back to Montreal. I wouldn't be surprised if he takes a 2 year deal around 4 to see if he can up his value

Im willing to bet Detroit and Boston would both offer him 5M as a UFA without hesitation, just to name a couple. San Jose may depending on what they do with Hertl too

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Im willing to bet Detroit and Boston would both offer him 5M as a UFA without hesitation, just to name a couple. San Jose may depending on what they do with Hertl too

im not a betting person but, what is the bet? Im doing this

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

im not a betting person but, what is the bet? Im doing this

WDYM? If Carolina does not qualify him I think he gets at least 5M on the open market as a 21yo center with high upside. Pretty straightforward.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see him sign for cheap with Carolina. I just don't think a 2m+ discount is remotely realistic

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

WDYM? If Carolina does not qualify him I think he gets at least 5M on the open market as a 21yo center with high upside. Pretty straightforward.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see him sign for cheap with Carolina. I just don't think a 2m+ discount is remotely realistic

My point is what are you betting? Teams aren’t giving him 5 million. He is getting a 2-3 year 3.5 million on the open market. Teams aren’t throwing big money on him in still a flat cap scenario as a UFA

 

[HabsQC]

I was told by many posters that KK would sign a long term deal around 4M per on january 1st.

I hope he's going to play the hardball with the Canes and ask no less than his QO, because I'm still salty, not gonna lie.

Let's see what happens though, I think it's more reasonnable to think he will sign with Carolina at a slightly lower rate, but I can't wait to see the numbers.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

My point is what are you betting? Teams aren’t giving him 5 million. He is getting a 2-3 year 3.5 million on the open market. Teams aren’t throwing big money on him in still a flat cap scenario as a UFA

3.5M? Im not sure if you are serious...

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

3.5M? Im not sure if you are serious...

For 2 years in UFA? Yea. That is a fair deal based on his production so far. Canes pay more cuz overpaying 1/2 million is better than losing him for nothing.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

For 2 years in UFA? Yea. That is a fair deal based on his production so far. Canes pay more cuz overpaying 1/2 million is better than losing him for nothing.

If you are acquiring Kotki as a 22yo UFA then it is based on his potential, not his teenage or 4th line production. Not that his production is bad this year by any means, he has 19 5v5 points in a bit over 500 minutes. That ranks him top 75 in the league in 5v5 pts/60

 

[Kojo]

He's really good in his reduced role playing bottom nine so they're probably working on 4x4 deal or something because that guy is not worth 6m.

 

[AvatarAang]

I was told by many posters that KK would sign a long term deal around 4M per on january 1st.

I was told by many posters that the habs would be just as good as they were in the playoffs on January 1st.

And yet here we are. KK is still waiting for his new contract, and the habs are one of the most embarrassing teams in the NHL.

 

[JustAHabFan]

I was told by many posters that the habs would be just as good as they were in the playoffs on January 1st.

And yet here we are. KK is still waiting for his new contract, and the habs are one of the most embarrassing teams in the NHL.

All Habs key players were injured. There is logical explanation for the miserable season they had. Does the Leafs had any explaination for not able to pass the playoff 1st round for like an eternity?

 

[HabsQC]

I was told by many posters that the habs would be just as good as they were in the playoffs on January 1st.

And yet here we are. KK is still waiting for his new contract, and the habs are one of the most embarrassing teams in the NHL.

You sound pretty insecure mate. Difference between your comment and mine is that I stayed on topic, which is the KK extension, sorry you took it personnally and had to shit on my team to make yourself feel better but you do you.