Kopitar; For or Against a trade if it comes to it?

[HYORI 1963]

Was cleaning out some old boxes and stumbled on a Kopitar rookie card. Pay him anything he wants.

He wants the ****in Kopitar rookie card.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kopitar and Doughty have another 6-7 years of high level hockey left in them in my opinion, give or take a year or two. I say give Carter and Quick another 5 years.

I'd say there is time for the Kings to replenish and add to what they have within that time frame. In addition to Toffoli and Pearson, there are some potential in young guys like Kempe, Shore, Weal, Mersch, etc., to become regulars in the NHL. Certainly not at the level of a Kopitar, but I think there's that potential for the Kings to develop their own talent from within.

Detroit has done so repeatedly with guys like Nyquist (2008 4th rounder), Tatar (2009 late 2nd rounder), Sheahan (2010 late 1st rounder), Jurco (2011 2nd rounder), Pulkkinen (2010 4th rounder).

 

[tsanuri]

That would be paying him in the neighborhood of $90M over 11 years post-ELC. I wouldn't call that an insult.

I don't care that it starts 3 years after their deals. Everyone is 3 years older as well and are that much further away from their prime production years. The cap is not going up. He doesn't need an 8-year deal. If you listened to the agent in the audio link I posted in the other thread, he said the term was the big issue in Giordano negotiation and that EVERY GM is cracking down on term for older players.

Giordano got six years, you don't think he wanted eight? I would love to negotiate a deal with some of you guys.

And Gio is 32 when it starts and will be 33 by the start of the season that year. So the 6 years is up to 39 8 with him would have been 41. Kopi will be 29 when it starts so even 8 will go to 37.
So you don't care that those contracts are that much older. Lets go at it another way. The cap was 56.8M when he started the deal he is on. So the cap has gone up by 25% and you are suggesting a 14% pay raise really when you look at his salary.

I don't have to like it but he will get 8 years and likely an amount in the 9-9.5M range. Because if we don't pay it someone will.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He wants the ****in Kopitar rookie card.

 

[kingsfan28]

Give me a break.

Drafting quality players will keep LA going for a long time at a playoff caliber level and thus far LA's scouting team has shown they can do that.

Detroit drafted Zetterberg in 1999. Since then the best player they have drafted is arguably one of Niklas Kronwall/Jimmy Howard/Jiri Hudler. Good players but nothing even close to hall of famers.

Very true. Detroit has been in the playoffs for like 20 years in a row, but realistically the last time they had a serious cup run was the 08'-9' season.

 

[TopT]

That would be paying him in the neighborhood of $90M over 11 years post-ELC. I wouldn't call that an insult.

I don't care that it starts 3 years after their deals. Everyone is 3 years older as well and are that much further away from their prime production years. The cap is not going up. He doesn't need an 8-year deal. If you listened to the agent in the audio link I posted in the other thread, he said the term was the big issue in Giordano negotiation and that EVERY GM is cracking down on term for older players.

Giordano got six years, you don't think he wanted eight? I would love to negotiate a deal with some of you guys.

And how old is Giordano....

 

[KINGS17]

And how old is Giordano....

...and what position does he play? Good defensemen generally play in the NHL and are more effective than forwards as they get older.

Anyway, you missed the entire point of the post. If you listened to the audio link posted in the other thread Giordano's agent said that around the league that all GMs were concerned about not just the AAV, but the term of the contract. I am sure his agent would have liked to get him 7 or 8 years even at a slightly reduced cap hit.

 

[Trolfoli]

I say trade him because I want to see Lewis as the 2C!!!!


(included just in case the humor didn't carry through the interwebs)

 

[TopT]

...and what position does he play?

The

and that matters how...

 

[KINGS17]

And Gio is 32 when it starts and will be 33 by the start of the season that year. So the 6 years is up to 39 8 with him would have been 41. Kopi will be 29 when it starts so even 8 will go to 37.
So you don't care that those contracts are that much older. Lets go at it another way. The cap was 56.8M when he started the deal he is on. So the cap has gone up by 25% and you are suggesting a 14% pay raise really when you look at his salary.

I don't have to like it but he will get 8 years and likely an amount in the 9-9.5M range. Because if we don't pay it someone will.

No doubt someone probably would give Kopitar the 8 years and $80M. That would be a stupid thing for the Kings to do, because that AAV, to go along with what will be declining offensive production will not allow the Kings to surround Kopitar with the players needed for them to continue to contend.

Yes, I think a 14% pay raise is plenty for a very good 1C that is past his prime offensively.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

and that matters how...

It matters a lot. Top defensemen often play effectively into their late 30s as their position isn't predicated as much on offensive production as a 1C would be. In other words, the contracts aren't as risky.

 

[KINGS17]

It matters a lot. Top defensemen often play effectively into their late 30s as their position isn't predicated as much on offensive production as a 1C would be. In other words, the contracts aren't as risky.

You can't tell this guy jack. He thinks Kopitar is more important to the Kings long term success than Doughty.

 

[Rusty Batch]

No doubt someone probably would give Kopitar the 8 years and $80M. That would be a stupid thing for the Kings to do, because that AAV, to go along with what will be declining offensive production will not allow the Kings to surround Kopitar with the players needed for them to continue to contend.

Yes, I think a 14% pay raise is plenty for a very good 1C that is past his prime offensively.

I feel like I've read a post similar to this one from you before...
Actually maybe hundreds almost exactly the same in just the past week or so.

 

[KINGS17]

I feel like I've read a post similar to this one from you before...
Actually maybe hundreds almost exactly the same in just the past week or so.

There's a button you can use, and you don't have to read any of them. Give it try.

 

[Trolfoli]

No doubt someone probably would give Kopitar the 8 years and $80M. That would be a stupid thing for the Kings to do, because that AAV, to go along with what will be declining offensive production will not allow the Kings to surround Kopitar with the players needed for them to continue to contend.

Yes, I think a 14% pay raise is plenty for a very good 1C that is past his prime offensively.

I'm fine with that... 2M more then an 8M salary... Places to cut fat. Lewis, Brown, Greene. Naw it would be much better to trade Kopitar then trim 2M off of some other contracts.

I'd love to hear Lombardi telling Kopitar he's not getting 8 years.
Kopitar: Brown got an 8 year deal.
Lombardi: I know, that's why I'm never giving out another 8 year deal.

 

[kingsfan]

Very true. Detroit has been in the playoffs for like 20 years in a row, but realistically the last time they had a serious cup run was the 08'-9' season.

My point was LA could easily stay competitive five years down the line with decent drafting, not talking about cup run. Besides, that was only six years ago, it's unrealistic to expect a team to be a cup threat year in year out or to not have a period where they are only average or slightly above average.

 

[KINGS17]

I'm fine with that... 2M more then an 8M salary... Places to cut fat. Lewis, Brown, Greene. Naw it would be much better to trade Kopitar then trim 2M off of some other contracts.

I'd love to hear Lombardi telling Kopitar he's not getting 8 years.
Kopitar: Brown got an 8 year deal.
Lombardi: I know, that's why I'm never giving out another 8 year deal.

You keep posting this baloney, but you forget that the Kings may not be able to move Brown, and they do have RFAs that will need raises within the next couple of seasons.

 

[Trolfoli]

You keep posting this baloney, but you forget that the Kings may not be able to move Brown, and they do have RFAs that will need raises within the next couple of seasons.

Package him with Kopitar.

 

[TopT]

It matters a lot. Top defensemen often play effectively into their late 30s as their position isn't predicated as much on offensive production as a 1C would be. In other words, the contracts aren't as risky.

Old wives' tale

For every top D that played effectively into their late 30is I can name you a 1C that did the same.

 

[TopT]

You can't tell this guy jack. He thinks Kopitar is more important to the Kings long term success than Doughty.

Yes, what is wrong with him.
I think its about time you go on the main board making Kopi trade proposals again.

 

[Dog as Man]

Q: Who would be the perfect Kopi replacement, if?

Q: What assets cold Kopi return?

Q: Did Rob Blake or Luc Robitaille get "hurt" by leaving?

There comes a tipping point in every negotiation and at that point ya gotta be ahead of the curve. Even if that option is temporarily painful. That's why we were going to endure the MR buyout. Twice.

 

[YP44]

In comparison Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Muzzin, and Quick are only at 40%.

what will they be after Kopitar's extension will be key

 

[deeshamrock]

Old wives' tale

For every top D that played effectively into their late 30is I can name you a 1C that did the same.

it's not an old wives tale, and good luck finding a 1C who was producing at a top level mid to late 30's. You can't compare the 2, what their jobs require to a top effective player are not the same.
A top D, a skilled, high end d with great vision, IQ, has the capability of being more productive than a center when both are well into their 30's.
GM's know that and will pay more of a skilled D , it's a safer bet.

 

[deeshamrock]

No doubt someone probably would give Kopitar the 8 years and $80M. That would be a stupid thing for the Kings to do, because that AAV, to go along with what will be declining offensive production will not allow the Kings to surround Kopitar with the players needed for them to continue to contend.

Yes, I think a 14% pay raise is plenty for a very good 1C that is past his prime offensively.

a 14% payraise takes him from 6.8 to 7.7, that makes no sense. Agents base the contract on data they use from stats and production compared to other players of the same position.

And I think DL would agree with you that an 8yr and 10 per year isn't good business, but he might not have a choice. Kopitar is holding all the cards, the Kings need him. The Kings are on the low end (number probably starting with an 8) and Kopi and his agent are on the high end (number around 11) so you negotiate to end in the middle, around 9.5
I'd be fine with that but not for more than 5 years and that will be the sticking point, Kopi is 28 and this is his last LTC, he'll want all 8 yrs.

http://www.si.com/nhl/2015/09/02/los-angeles-kings-anze-kopitar-contract-talks

Coming off those two championships, the Kings are saddled with eight players whose contractual commitments extend beyond the 2018-2019 season and count more than $38 million against a cap that could see significant volatility in the coming years as a result of the declining value of the Canadian dollar.

that's the bottom line and it's easy to see why DL is in a tough spot.

 

[Herby]

Dee,

Even though it's the way GM's and agents do business some here don't believe in comps when it comes to discussing what Kopitar should be paid, because according to some here, every single star player in the NHL is overpaid and Lombardi will somehow waive some magic wand and make our guys sign for less, even though that has certainly not been the case with re-signed players.

Look at the posts every single time someone signs with another team, the immediate reaction is how overpaid and bad the contract is. Matt Cullen signed for 800k and there was a post calling him overpaid.

7.7 is obviously a laughable number for Kopitar