Knowing what we know - who do you draft in a re-draft? 18 yr old Crosby or 18 yr old McDavid?

[pi314]

Because the media wasn't ready to let go of him being the best player in the world when he was no longer competing for scoring titles. Also used to justify his Lifetime Achievement Conn Smythe win in 2016. He's not a bad defensive player, but also not someone I'd label a "two-way player."

Pure nonsense and drivel.

It’s clear you never watched him for 5 minutes.

He’s known as having the hardest working habits in the league. People improve with legendary practice habits.

When he came into the league, he sucked at face offs. He said he would work on it and became one of the better players at face offs since.

Then everyone said he had no shot. He said he would get better at it and won a rocket.

Then he said he wanted to become a great defensive player. He worked at it.

The NHL players have voted him year after year as the most complete 2-way player.

You know. People who play hockey for a living.

 

[Video Nasty]

yOu kNow WhAt, LeT's nOt tAke tHe 5-TiMe aRt RoSs wInNeR aNd 2-TiMe rUnNeR uP iN sEvEn HeALtHy sEaSoNs

There’s just something mesmerizing about a guy who was so dominant as an individual that he won 2 scoring races by a total of 23 points versus the other who has won 5 and counting by a total 74 points.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

There’s just something mesmerizing about a guy who was so dominant as an individual that he won 2 scoring races by a total of 23 points versus the other who has won 5 and counting by a total 74 points.

Yeah but did you know that Sid won a tourney when he was 9 what a winner

 

[Video Nasty]

Yeah but did you know that Sid won a tourney when he was 9 what a winner

That’s insane. That trumps 153 points for sure.

 

[pi314]

There’s just something mesmerizing about a guy who was so dominant as an individual that he won 2 scoring races by a total of 23 points versus the other who has won 5 and counting by a total 74 points.

You can win a scoring race losing every game 8-7 and you're not doing as much as winning games 2-1.

They play to win the games.

 

[ProfessorFink22]

Putting lack of team success on McDavid is not a good argument, IMO. That being said... I chose Crosby. Slight edge to McDavid on ice skill wise, but slight edge to Crosby in the leadership department, defensive play, and just in how he does all the little things right. I am always fascinated, even watching the current Pens, watching Crosby shift by shift. He never does the wrong thing, never loses a board battle, etc, it seems.

That being said, I had to think about this one very hard. Great poll

 

[Video Nasty]

You can win a scoring race losing every game 8-7 and you're not doing as much as winning games 2-1.

They play to win the games.

Over the last three seasons that McDavid has won the Art Ross, the Oilers have a record of 134-69-17 or a Points % of .648 which equates to 106 points. They have a goal differential of +132. They won 50 games last season and 49 the year before.

I think they’ve been winning a lot of games with this method.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Welp, HfBs has spoken, more people prefer winning.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Over the last three seasons that McDavid has won the Art Ross, the Oilers have a record of 134-69-17 or a Points % of .648 which equates to 106 points. They have a goal differential of +132. They won 50 games last season and 49 the year before.

I think they’ve been winning a lot of games with this method.

It also turns out that the GM needs to do the job of surrounding good players with compatible talent. Who is McDavid's Guentzel? What is Edmonton's 3rd-line version of Kessel?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

There’s just something mesmerizing about a guy who was so dominant as an individual that he won 2 scoring races by a total of 23 points versus the other who has won 5 and counting by a total 74 points.

And no cups or finals

Over the last three seasons that McDavid has won the Art Ross, the Oilers have a record of 134-69-17 or a Points % of .648 which equates to 106 points. They have a goal differential of +132. They won 50 games last season and 49 the year before.

I think they’ve been winning a lot of games with this method.

But no cups

Yeah but did you know that Sid won a tourney when he was 9 what a winner

Crosby has won the championship in every league he's ever been in. McDavid has 0

 

[pi314]

Over the last three seasons that McDavid has won the Art Ross, the Oilers have a record of 134-69-17 or a Points % of .648 which equates to 106 points. They have a goal differential of +132. They won 50 games last season and 49 the year before.

I think they’ve been winning a lot of games with this method.

Now do playoffs.

 

[Video Nasty]

Now do playoffs.

I was quoting you talking about scoring races and the regular season. Try and keep up.

 

[gritdash60]

As someone said, Crosby is a 4th line grinder, who has the skills of a 1C. And what comes to the laughing at Crosbys physical attributes, i think it's him or St. Louis who has had the strongest lower body and core strenght all time.

Yes sure people will now post all kinds of players who squat 7 billion kg, but somehow those people are still shit in the corners compared to Crosby.

And all that i have said probably makes me a Crosby fanboy, but if i had to pick one center to win one game and could pick of anyone in their prime its Datsyuk all day for me.

 

[The90]

Yeah but did you know that Sid won a tourney when he was 9 what a winner

Has mcdavid won any tourney’s since he was 9?

 

[pi314]

I was quoting you talking about scoring races and the regular season. Try and keep up.

Reporters:

“How do you feel about Connor in the playoffs?”

Crosby:

“I didn’t get a chance to see him play.”

 

[um]

People taking Crosby because of intangibles and team awards reminds me of when people would take Toews over Crosby. Maybe not as extreme, but still a stretch.

McDavid is at a level that Crosby has come nowhere close to. McDavid would need a rapid decline like Ovechkin after 2010 to make this close.

 

[DitchMarner]

People taking Crosby because of intangibles and team awards reminds me of when people would take Toews over Crosby. Maybe not as extreme, but still a stretch.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Obviously Crosby is closer offensively to McDavid than Toews was to Crosby, but it feels like the same type of narrative is being pushed.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

And no cups or finals


But no cups


Crosby has won the championship in every league he's ever been in. McDavid has 0

Puddle deep analysis as always.

If you’re using tourneys won as a kid, I don’t know what to say.

Maltby> Crosby according to your shitty metrics.

Has mcdavid won any tourney’s since he was 9?

Won a world juniors. [mod]

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Puddle deep analysis as always.

If you’re using tourneys won as a kid, I don’t know what to say.

Maltby> Crosby according to your shitty metrics.



Won a world juniors. You guys can’t be this dense.

How about club teams?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

How about club teams?

Who f***ing cares?

 

[The90]

Who f***ing cares?

Looking at this thread, the majority of people care lol

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Starting to think McDavid has a couple accounts here with the way some refuse to accept the results.

 

[nowhereman]

People taking Crosby because of intangibles and team awards reminds me of when people would take Toews over Crosby. Maybe not as extreme, but still a stretch.

McDavid is at a level that Crosby has come nowhere close to. McDavid would need a rapid decline like Ovechkin after 2010 to make this close.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Obviously Crosby is closer offensively to McDavid than Toews was to Crosby, but it feels like the same type of narrative is being pushed.

Very different scenarios.

The difference between Crosby and McDavid's on-ice ability is largely marginal and the difference in hardware mostly comes down to health. Last year is the only full season in McDavid's career that is clearly better than anything from Sid, even when you account for scoring differences. But the way people talk about McDavid's offense, you'd think he was in the midst of a Gretzky-like prime putting up these totals year-over-year. He's not (or, at least, there's no way of knowing this until he keeps it up for another 6-7 years) and just about lost out on the previous year's scoring race to Gaudreau and Huberdeau.

When there isn't much separating two players (as was also the case in the Sid vs. OV debate), the little things matter. The problem was that Toews was nowhere near Crosby's level and it became a running joke that the hockey hipsters of the late 00s/early-10s would use defense to make up for a massive difference in offensive ability.

 

[I am not exposed]

People really using Crosby winning Olympic Gold as a reason.

Since McDavid entered the league NHL players have not been chosen. Little hard for him to win an Olympic Gold when he hasn't had the opportunity to actually compete in the Olympics!

 

[Video Nasty]

The difference between Crosby and McDavid's on-ice ability is largely marginal and the difference in hardware mostly comes down to health. Last year is the only full season in McDavid's career that is clearly better than anything from Sid, even when you account for scoring differences. But the way people talk about McDavid's offense, you'd think he was in the midst of a Gretzky-like prime putting up these totals year-over-year. He's not (or, at least, there's no way of knowing this until he keeps it up for another 6-7 years) and just about lost out on the previous year's scoring race to Gaudreau and Huberdeau.

Love the caveats. Coming into this past season, 2020-2021 was a fluke to detractors and McDavid could never replicate it. He goes out and does it again, possibly even better, and now it’s “the only full season.” Now he “needs to keep it up for another 6-7 seasons” (where do you come up with this stuff?) as if he doesn’t have multiple regular seasons that are clearly on another level than Crosby.

Pushing the goal posts further back for everything McDavid accomplished and backed up with further proof, but putting the training wheels back on and holding Crosby by his waist while talking about what ifs, pace, and phantom trophies. It’s pretty damn sickening.

Yeah sorry, I know being pretty healthy isn’t that sexy to the members of the Penguin Cult, but it actually matters in these comparisons.

You don’t just get to wave off 5 Art Rosses, 4 Lindsays, 3 Harts (5 nominations and 7 consecutive top 5 finishes), 7 consecutive top 2 scoring in both raw points AND PPG, 153 points in a season, and a reasonable shot at 1000 career points by the completion of his age 27 season and claim the guy hasn’t dominated to a degree that very few players ever have (and Crosby isn’t one of them).

Give Crosby all the phantom Art Ross, Harts, and Lindsays you want for the “heartbreaking” what ifs you think were left on the table (what does it matter? You all give him full credit anyways). McDavid has already equaled or will have more in reality.

Another handful of seasons to pad out McDavid’s career and the detractors are going to look so bad when they’re still arguing these points.