Knowing what we know - who do you draft in a re-draft? 18 yr old Crosby or 18 yr old McDavid?

[wetcoast]

So Crosby is “driving the bus” to 5 straight seasons without a series win including missing the playoffs then eh?

Sure technically speaking but it's not like he hasn't been playing well.

sometimes in a 32 team league a guy can be the same level and different things happen.

Jack Eichel this year in the playoffs compared to his past play, teams are different but guys still drive the bus.

Last 5 years Crosby has been in his age 31-35 seasons and was 16th in scoring, 10th in PPG while providing excellent 2 way play and leadership and the last 4 playoff years Crosby has really been driving play 5 on 5 and the rest of the team has really floundered a bit.

 

[McFlash97]

Love how you left out the Conn smythes lol.

Oh he did. He also left out

McDavid is only 26 years old too !

This will be a joke in 5 years time when McDavid literally could be hunting down Crosbys career point totals.

 

[Midnight Judges]

At least he didn’t win the CS scoring 5 points less than the point leader of his team…

Yes well accumulating points tends to get a bit easier when you've got a guy on your line who can score unscreened from 40+ feet out on the best goaltender in the NHL.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Where does the idea that Crosby has a great two-way game come from? It's not true now, and it certainly wasn't true back when was the best player in the league (think 06-07).

Some of you people talk about him like he has the two-way game of Pavel Datsyuk.

He was just voted the most complete player in the game by his peers this season.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

He was just voted the most complete player in the game by his peers this season.

The players have all been brainwashed by the Canadian media too and are in on the conspiracy.

 

[DrDangles]

Depends on the era I'm drafting them in. McDavid's game is perfect for the direction the league has been heading, but if I'm drafting them coming fresh out of the DPE I'm taking Sid.

Neck and neck talent wise, and anybody who says otherwise for either is just a homer.

 

[Three On Zero]

These threads are pure coping mechanisms for Oilers and Capitals fans. It’s hilarious to watch.

Crosby = best we’ve had some Gretzky/Lemieux and one hell of a two way player
Ovechkin = realistic chance at breaking the all time goals record
McDavid = In pretty good company to be in the conversation with these 2 players, still young enough where if he can focus on being a better 2 way player he could give Crosby a run for it

 

[Video Nasty]

Crosby = best we’ve had some Gretzky/Lemieux and one hell of a two way player
Ovechkin = realistic chance at breaking the all time goals record
McDavid = In pretty good company to be in the conversation with these 2 players, still young enough where if he can focus on being a better 2 way player he could give Crosby a run for it

McDavid is in the midst of leaving both players in the dust. When the dust settles, he could very well have as many Harts, Lindsays, and Art Rosses as those two combined (of course he already has 5 Rosses compared to 3).

How someone who has seen Gretzky and Lemieux play gets so hyper fixated on Crosby is beyond me.

We’re probably only about half a decade from McDavid officially remolding the Big Four into a new Big Five. Yeah, it’s happening right before your eyes. Time to move on from your childhood sweethearts.

 

[Three On Zero]

McDavid is in the midst of leaving both players in the dust.

How someone who has seen Gretzky and Lemieux play gets so hyper fixated on Crosby is beyond me.

Leave them in the dust? Unlikely
Be interchangeable depending on criteria? Probable

 

[PettersonHughes]

The players have all been brainwashed by the Canadian media too and are in on the conspiracy.

You mean the Crosbyracy... it's too late now, it's Sid's world and we're all living in it

If both of them played a sport like basketball where greats can play the whole game, then I might pick McDavid since with his speed it's hard to get the puck from him, and his rushes are so devastating. Still, narrative or not, I think Sid's ability to elevate no-name guys and play in any sort of clutch moment and in tight checking and come through gives him the edge in my books (for McDavid, if the other team has size and a system on defense they can slow McDavid, whereas Sid can stickhandle his way through/ around and find the open teammate to score).

 

[Skolman]

Crosby = best we’ve had some Gretzky/Lemieux and one hell of a two way player
Ovechkin = realistic chance at breaking the all time goals record
McDavid = In pretty good company to be in the conversation with these 2 players, still young enough where if he can focus on being a better 2 way player he could give Crosby a run for it

Lmao the hate you have towards anything Oilers related is actually comical at this point.

I don’t think I've ever seen you vote Oilers/Oilers player

 

[Midnight Judges]

Still, narrative or not, I think Sid's ability to elevate no-name guys...

Again, there is no data that suggests Crosby does this any better than any other all time great. People just say things for Sid.

Alex Chiasson - a career healthy scratch - was a 22 goal player with McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

[bobholly39]

Anyone saying it’s easy or not close is just being silly. There is no right or wrong answer. If we swap prime Crosby for current McDavid, does Pittsburgh still win any of their 3 cups? If we swap current McDavid with prime Crosby, do the Oilers get past Colorado or Vegas and win a cup in the last couple of years? Does anyone believe simply swapping only those two players grossly changes the way things have played out for either team?

I’m surprised it took until page 5 to turn into petty insults and shitposting though. Impressive feat for the mains.

I think Crosby has a lot of intangibles in his favor that contribute to winning He's a great leader, leads by example. Moreso than McDavid. It's called "intangible" for a reason though, so it's hard to really quantify.

Do Pens still have 3 cups with McDavid? Maybe/maybe not.

Do Oilers do better with Crosby? In my opinion - absolutely yes. Does it guarantee a cup? No. Possible on cup, but I think Oilers would have competed more, and even simply made the playoffs more often (or come close to playoffs more consistently), as opposed to being bottom feeders.

If Crosby had everything go right, he’d be better than everyone else!

There are of course a lot of exagarated takes in this thread. With Crosby - a lot of his injuries were unlucky. He's a bit different than a Forsberg/Malkin/Lemieux/Lindros who seemed destined to be injured often no matter what. With Crosby I think it's a couple of unlucky plays that contibuted to a ton of missed time. So - it's interresting to speculate how things turn out without those unlucky injuries.

For what it's worth - if Crosby had not had any major injuries, I do think him and McDavid would be quite close through 8 years. In reality, McDavid is ahead as of now.

 

[Three On Zero]

Lmao the hate you have towards anything Oilers related is actually comical at this point.

I don’t think I've ever seen you vote Oilers/Oilers player

Last time I checked, this wasn’t Oiler related. This is a discussion about a hockey player

If you’re more interested in a discussion about McDavid and the Oilers perhaps HFOil would better suit your needs, but this is a discussion about drafting Crosby or McDavid

 

[Caps8112]

I think Crosby has a lot of intangibles in his favor that contribute to winning He's a great leader, leads by example. Moreso than McDavid. It's called "intangible" for a reason though, so it's hard to really quantify.

Do Pens still have 3 cups with McDavid? Maybe/maybe not.

Do Oilers do better with Crosby? In my opinion - absolutely yes. Does it guarantee a cup? No. Possible on cup, but I think Oilers would have competed more, and even simply made the playoffs more often (or come close to playoffs more consistently), as opposed to being bottom feeders.



There are of course a lot of exagarated takes in this thread. With Crosby - a lot of his injuries were unlucky. He's a bit different than a Forsberg/Malkin/Lemieux/Lindros who seemed destined to be injured often no matter what. With Crosby I think it's a couple of unlucky plays that contibuted to a ton of missed time. So - it's interresting to speculate how things turn out without those unlucky injuries.

For what it's worth - if Crosby had not had any major injuries, I do think him and McDavid would be quite close through 8 years. In reality, McDavid is ahead as of now.

think they would be about the same or worse honestly. The oilers have a terrible team with 2 of the leagues best players absolutely carrying it. they have no goalie or defense and havent had that in McDs career. If all we are saying is McD would be on those Pens teams "as they were" IMO its actually far more likely the pens win all 3 of their cups with Mcd, then the oilers teams McD has had, do anything with Crosby. Its not a knock on Crosby. The pens teams were already championship caliber teams, replacing one top 5 superstar for another doesnt change much. Meanwhile Crosby will have the same problem in EDM Mcd has had. He cant play goal or handle #1 dman responsibilities.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Again, there is no data that suggests Crosby does this any better than any other all time great. People just say things for Sid.

Alex Chiasson - a career healthy scratch - was a 22 goal player with McDavid and Draisaitl.

Patrick Maroon averaged like 10 goals in his career...scored 27 with McDavid

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Sure technically speaking but it's not like he hasn't been playing well.

sometimes in a 32 team league a guy can be the same level and different things happen.

sure, but his team isn't as good anymore...that's my point

Jack Eichel this year in the playoffs compared to his past play, teams are different but guys still drive the bus.

not sure what Jack Eichel has to do with anything but Vegas was a great team before he arrived, Jack just got on for the ride...dude didn't score a single goal in the Final nor in the last 8 games of the playoffs
insert any competent #1 center there and they still win

Last 5 years Crosby has been in his age 31-35 seasons and was 16th in scoring, 10th in PPG while providing excellent 2 way play and leadership and the last 4 playoff years Crosby has really been driving play 5 on 5 and the rest of the team has really floundered a bit.

ahh so Crosby's "excellent 2-way play and leadership" has resulted in 0 playoff wins and missing the playoffs....amazing

maybe, just maybe the team surrounding him...like McDavid dealt with for several years...just doesn't have it

 

[The90]

sure, but his team isn't as good anymore...that's my point


not sure what Jack Eichel has to do with anything but Vegas was a great team before he arrived, Jack just got on for the ride...dude didn't score a single goal in the Final nor in the last 8 games of the playoffs
insert any competent #1 center there and they still win



ahh so Crosby's "excellent 2-way play and leadership" has resulted in 0 playoff wins and missing the playoffs....amazing

maybe, just maybe the team surrounding him...like McDavid dealt with for several years...just doesn't have it

Crosby in his prime doesn’t miss the playoffs. He’s still an excellent player, but there’s no question he’s not peak crosby anymore. Your false equivalency of a 36 year old crosby is the same as 26 year old crosby is just bad. No better way to describe it.

 

[Figgy44]

IMO...

CMD is more in the style of Lemieux. A very specialized piece and excellent one man army.

Crosby is more in the style of Gretzky. A piece that can fit with basically anyone, typically top 1/2 players on a team while also a good general vs being a team's one man army.

I feel like in the end, both would win multiple cups on these new theoretical drafting teams. But I feel like Crosby's team would have less major fluctuations in the standings while McDavid's team would have more major fluctuations from season to season. Coincidentally, I think this is what OP's post was playing on as well. Crosby has the accolades and consistency in team standings. CMD has had the higher highs for personal accomplishments but lower lows for team performance and questions marks from age 26-35 because it hasn't happened yet.

Both have completely different approaches in addressing the roster weaknesses. Not to say CMD wouldn't rally his team, but his focus would be to elevate his game to overcome the onslaught from opposition. Crosby would rally the team more than CMD and attempt to elevate his teammates to overcome the opposition onslaught via committee. I'm not saying CMD cannot elevate guys. He shoed he can elevate guys like Yakupov. He just doesn't seemingly prefer doing that over taking matters into his own hands. Crosby has shown the opposite preference during his career in elevating teammates before elevating himself, but I don't know if it was partially a defense mechanism for him to do that because he was playing through some injuries in an era where that was done more often.

I also think in an alternate universe, based on different teams and mandates of those drafting CMD and Crosby, it could be reverse that Crosby is considered the one man army and McDavid the general who lowered his personal accolades and traded some of his health to elevate his teammates.

As for who to choose, I think you can't go wrong with either. It's just stylistic preferences on how you want to see your team play. I think Crosby would work better for the stylistic preference the Flames have gone with over time (more lunch pail sandpaper styled teams). Plus, knowing what we know now, the "Iggy" call is iconic.

 

[pi314]

The players have all been brainwashed by the Canadian media too and are in on the conspiracy.

What do NHL players know about playing hockey?

Only HF posters know what they're talking about.

Crosby = best we’ve had some Gretzky/Lemieux and one hell of a two way player
Ovechkin = realistic chance at breaking the all time goals record
McDavid = In pretty good company to be in the conversation with these 2 players, still young enough where if he can focus on being a better 2 way player he could give Crosby a run for it

This is how I feel too.

McDavid has a chance to be that guy. Already in elite all time company.

But there's no way you can say he's done more than Crosby so far. Especially when the point of the game is to win the game.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Crosby. Proven winner. McDavid is a little better, but hasn't proven he can win. I don't think he's the reason why Edmonton isn't winning, but you never know. We'll see if he ever ends up with a Cup.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby in his prime doesn’t miss the playoffs. He’s still an excellent player, but there’s no question he’s not peak crosby anymore. Your false equivalency of a 36 year old crosby is the same as 26 year old crosby is just bad. No better way to describe it.

Mario Lemieux in his prime missed the playoffs back when 16 out of 21 teams made it in.

 

[The90]

Mario Lemieux in his prime missed the playoffs back when 16 out of 21 teams made it in.

That’s good. It’s an alternate fact that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and doesn’t further of dispute any points being made in here, but it’s good nonetheless

 

[Midnight Judges]

Both have completely different approaches in addressing the roster weaknesses. Not to say CMD wouldn't rally his team, but his focus would be to elevate his game to overcome the onslaught from opposition. Crosby would rally the team more than CMD and attempt to elevate his teammates to overcome the opposition onslaught via committee. I'm not saying CMD cannot elevate guys. He shoed he can elevate guys like Yakupov.

Perhaps you can be the first person in the history of HFBoards to show that Crosby actually elevates teammates more than McDavid or any other all time great.

This is one of the many things that gets said for Crosby that there isn't a scintilla of evidence for.

That’s good. It’s an alternate fact that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and doesn’t further of dispute any points being made in here, but it’s good nonetheless

It directly disputes what you said. I guess I'll tie the points together a little more explicitly.

You claimed a prime Crosby would never miss the playoffs.

A prime Lemieux missed the playoffs. In fact it was more difficult to miss the playoffs back then.

Prime Lemieux >>> Prime Crosby.

Therefore a prime Crosby could certainly miss the playoffs.

(BTW this is true for all players because hockey is very much a team sport and it takes much more to win than any 1 player can provide).

 

[DearDiary]

Again, there is no data that suggests Crosby does this any better than any other all time great. People just say things for Sid.

Alex Chiasson - a career healthy scratch - was a 22 goal player with McDavid and Draisaitl.

You're paying too much attention to stats. It has to do with the human aspect to the style of games they play, especially Crosby with his grinding play. If you're a bottom 6 player and watching Crosby play your game, holding onto the puck and making plays while getting abused in the corners and around the net, that's going to make you work that much harder. The common theme with the Pens has always been making use of nobodies and fitting them into roles where they contribute through effort