Kitchener Rangers 2022-23 Season Thread (Part 3)

[Matttheleaf]

I have a horrible feeling that if nothing has been announced yet about Dennis being fired, then it won't happen. Mike either gives him one more game (again, for whatever reason), or he gives him the rest of the season.

 

[rangersblues]

I have a horrible feeling that if nothing has been announced yet about Dennis being fired, then it won't happen. Mike either gives him one more game (again, for whatever reason), or he gives him the rest of the season.

I don't think Dennis is going to get canned. I believe it's a money decision. I can't think of a single reason other than that to keep him around.

 

[Ward Cornell]

I made this point about 5 yrs ago but worth posting again.

There's a time for loading up for a deep run. Usually when you have most if not all of the pieces and are making a strong push in the standings. Usually then you take a deep look at what are your weakest links and what you should do to improve upon it. But if you making trades and giving away draft picks to give the team a chance to move from 6th to 5th or a marginal gain up, you need to think long and hard about that.
My opinion is when you have an average team that might win the first round and maybe put up a fight in the second round you should sell. Collect as many picks and younger players as much as possible. Go into each draft with at least your second and third round picks supplemented but a cpl more from trades. This will create a competitive camp and even once players have made the team they are always looking over their shoulder at their possible replacement. (see London and Ottawa and a cpl more teams for a blueprint)
Of course this isn't in the cards here, where we trade numerous picks to make a marginal move up or maybe to give the illusions to fans they are a contender to get an additional 400 fans per game. Then there's always trading a 5th round pick for another team unsigned 8th round picks especially if they are a local lad. Of course these trades are basically camouflaging an inept scouting staff so what the heck do picks really mean here in Kitchener

 

[Matttheleaf]

I don't think Dennis is going to get canned. I believe it's a money decision. I can't think of a single reason other than that to keep him around.

That's my thinking as well. This organization isn't so poor that it can't afford this if it was important enough that it may help the team. That's why I think this is coming from the penny-pinching higher-ups who don't want to see money spent on someone who loses their job and doesn't work for them anymore.

 

[Ward Cornell]

That's my thinking as well. This organization isn't so poor that it can't afford this if it was important enough that it may help the team. That's why I think this is coming from the penny-pinching higher-ups who don't want to see money spent on someone who loses their job and doesn't work for them anymore.

One fault of many in management is not admitting their own mistakes and moving on from them..

 

[Habsrule]

I was at the game and my son who is 10 was trying to get the players autographs on his jersey before the game. We have been to about half of the home games this year so far. I was standing near him and you should have heard the music blaring and all of the hooting and holloring coming from the dressing room and the tunnel. I figured that with the game being nationally televised and that they hadn’t played a home game in three weeks that they would come out flying. Against a team that is really young and we’re seller at the deadline too. I figured that this was going to be a statement game from the Rangers.

The game starts and they came out so flat. Now some of that falls upon the players but a lot falls upon the coach.

 

[Tim Wallach]

I was at the game and my son who is 10 was trying to get the players autographs on his jersey before the game. We have been to about half of the home games this year so far. I was standing near him and you should have heard the music blaring and all of the hooting and holloring coming from the dressing room and the tunnel. I figured that with the game being nationally televised and that they hadn’t played a home game in three weeks that they would come out flying. Against a team that is really young and we’re seller at the deadline too. I figured that this was going to be a statement game from the Rangers.

The game starts and they came out so flat. Now some of that falls upon the players but a lot falls upon the coach.

Amen.

Even lousy teams come out just flying several times a year. It is on the coaches to have them ready to pounce. A team that never, ever does is a sure sign he’s a poor motivator.

 

[EvenSteven]

To me Jeff Hicks was unreadable with all his alliterations and cartoonish comparisons. He also went looking for things that didn't exist ie. dumping on DeBoer on a regular basis. Don't miss him at all.

Hicks just tried to be a investigative colomnist in the same breath as guys like Steve Simmons and Damian Cox, not simply a reporter for the team.

And there were times that he reported stuff that did exist. Team paid trip to Mexico for players that was apparently against league rules. Reporting that Jerry D’Amigo never wanted to play in Kitchener and was pissed to be sent here, and getting family interviews to that end. Reported that Ben Thomson enacted his no trade clause to scuttle a deal to Barrie.

Hicks didn’t tow the company line like Farwell and Pope. Bottom line, if you were an apologist for the team, as are these guys along with team management, directors, etc, you didn’t like Hicks.

Not backing up Hicks. Just saying what he was. The team didn’t want an investigative reporter. It wanted a schill for the team like Farwell and Pope.

Amen.

Even lousy teams come out just flying several times a year. It is on the coaches to have them ready to pounce. A team that never, ever does is a sure sign he’s a poor motivator.

Is this team trying to get their coach fired? And if so, is MM listening?

 

[Ward Cornell]

Amen.

Even lousy teams come out just flying several times a year. It is on the coaches to have them ready to pounce. A team that never, ever does is a sure sign he’s a poor motivator.

The sports world most successful coaches usually had an initial coaching job they flamed out in. (see Bill Belichuck in Cleveland) I think this is due they werent quite prepared to be a "___hole" to the players to motivate them. Not sure if the best coaches are X's and O's type of guys but the ones who strike the fear in players and get them to come out playing to the best of their abilities.

Hicks was ok...just needed am enigma machine to decode some of his articles.

 

[Tim Wallach]

The sports world most successful coaches usually had an initial coaching job they flamed out in. (see Bill Belichuck in Cleveland) I think this is due they werent quite prepared to be a "___hole" to the players to motivate them. Not sure if the best coaches are X's and O's type of guys but the ones who strike the fear in players and get them to come out playing to the best of their abilities.

Hicks was ok...just needed am enigma machine to decode some of his articles.

I keep hearing how the folks in the Rangers org think Lazary is an a-hole. Perhaps they should get over the nice guy stuff. Lazary has had a bunch of success and was available under their noses. They didn’t want an effective coach because he wouldn’t be as fun to have beers with I guess.

 

[TheBlueMonster]

The next 10 goes as follows:

Saginaw
London
Ottawa
Sarnia
London
Barrie
Erie
Sarnia
Guelph
Niagara

Heading into last night, Oshawa was a must win. Knowing this team can't string together wins consistently, the excuse of games in hand is no longer valid. They've shown us that we can't rely on that

A loss in Saginaw could see the Ranger tied for last if Erie wins both of its weekend games. Guelph who got better in net and defensively at the deadline will be no push over, just ask London last night. (also 6-2-2 in last 10)

This streak of 10 games coming up is going to be bad. They aren't going to go .500. I think they go 2-8. Which wont even be enough to pull them out of 9th.

Just a failure top to bottom.


I was in Hamilton with a friend whose a Dogs fan on Wednesday and we talked about the fall from grace Kitchener has had. We talked about most attractive places for prospects and this is the list we concocted.

London
Windsor
Hamilton
Mississauga
Ottawa
Oshawa
Soo
Saginaw

all have passed Kitchener.

It's all debatable but Kitchener should be number 2 on that list. With out even trying they should be top 5.

 

[Spinner]

Prior to hiring Andreas Karlsson in the 2017/2018 season MM offered the vacant associate coach position to Chris Dennis who was the head coach at York University at the time. Ultimately CD took a role as an assistant coach with the Chicago Wolves for the 2017/2018 season.
Andreas Karlsson served as an assistant coach to CD at York at the time and when CD turned down MM’s offer to take the job in Chicago he gave Karlsson a glowing recommendation to MM and was ultimately hired for the role MM had initially offered to CD.

Chris Dennis has been on MM’s radar for a long time.

 

[rangersblues]

The next 10 goes as follows:

Saginaw
London
Ottawa
Sarnia
London
Barrie
Erie
Sarnia
Guelph
Niagara

Heading into last night, Oshawa was a must win. Knowing this team can't string together wins consistently, the excuse of games in hand is no longer valid. They've shown us that we can't rely on that

A loss in Saginaw could see the Ranger tied for last if Erie wins both of its weekend games. Guelph who got better in net and defensively at the deadline will be no push over, just ask London last night. (also 6-2-2 in last 10)

This streak of 10 games coming up is going to be bad. They aren't going to go .500. I think they go 2-8. Which wont even be enough to pull them out of 9th.

Just a failure top to bottom.


I was in Hamilton with a friend whose a Dogs fan on Wednesday and we talked about the fall from grace Kitchener has had. We talked about most attractive places for prospects and this is the list we concocted.

London
Windsor
Hamilton
Mississauga
Ottawa
Oshawa
Soo
Saginaw

all have passed Kitchener.

It's all debatable but Kitchener should be number 2 on that list. With out even trying they should be top 5.

I'm unsure what the appeal of playing in Mississauga or Saginaw is. I would say Guelph has some appeal. I agree with the rest.

 

[TheBlueMonster]

I'm unsure what the appeal of playing in Mississauga or Saginaw is. I would say Guelph has some appeal. I agree with the rest.

Mississauga has all the bells and whistles in their facility that puts them with the best of the best. One of the nicest buildings in the CHL and the ability to just play. They develop staff well. The management staff in Ottawa was the management and coaching staff in Missy just a few years ago. Richmond gets the respect of his players, They've developed properly. They rely on the OHL draft so they do their due dillegence. Missy is a hot option, take away the attendance issues and its a solid spot.


Saginaw has never had trouble recruiting. On pace to win 40 games for the 3rd time in 4 seasons. The arena is fine there. They're patient with prospects, giving them a chance to develop. Probably going to win the OHL next season and have the next generational talent playing for them. 11 05s, 06's and 07's tells me they know how to identify talent.

1 thing I should have said is the list is going to continue to change. Like if Peterborough goes on a long run, are they all of a sudden a hot spot? North Bay? Its just as it stands currently

Guelph has some appeal for sure.

 

[bobber]

Mississauga has all the bells and whistles in their facility that puts them with the best of the best. One of the nicest buildings in the CHL and the ability to just play. They develop staff well. The management staff in Ottawa was the management and coaching staff in Missy just a few years ago. Richmond gets the respect of his players, They've developed properly. They rely on the OHL draft so they do their due dillegence. Missy is a hot option, take away the attendance issues and its a solid spot.


Saginaw has never had trouble recruiting. On pace to win 40 games for the 3rd time in 4 seasons. The arena is fine there. They're patient with prospects, giving them a chance to develop. Probably going to win the OHL next season and have the next generational talent playing for them. 11 05s, 06's and 07's tells me they know how to identify talent.

1 thing I should have said is the list is going to continue to change. Like if Peterborough goes on a long run, are they all of a sudden a hot spot? North Bay? Its just as it stands currently

Guelph has some appeal for sure.

Missy made the best most intelligent moves at the deadline for a team that decided to sell. There future looks bright when it comes to the players they picked up in these trades. All will be the top stars in the league going forward. As old Kenny Rogers said" You got to know when to fold em". He knew more than roast chicken. Plus Missy will add their first pick in the draft. Imagine having your first and second pick on the team developing with the vets.

I'm unsure what the appeal of playing in Mississauga or Saginaw is. I would say Guelph has some appeal. I agree with the rest.

I just hope the parents of players in future drafts don't say this about the Rangers.

 

[GeoBlue]

I have a horrible feeling that if nothing has been announced yet about Dennis being fired, then it won't happen. Mike either gives him one more game (again, for whatever reason), or he gives him the rest of the season.

As I stated earlier, IMO, I think something will be decided after the Saginaw game. I could not see MM getting rid of Dennis while preparing for a road trip as everyone would have to scramble. A loss in the States should seal the deal but if he comes back and nothing is done, I have the feeling Dennis will be here for the reason of the season minimum.

 

[rangersblues]

I just hope the parents of players in future drafts don't say this about the Rangers.

I've thought the same a few times. I think it depends on how serious the player is about a pro career. Kitchener has great facilities, except the subpar ice. I believe the treatment of the players is second to none. However player development has been questionable to say the least the last decade.

That said although we may lose a few who have American scholarship options, most will report. Like I said in an earlier post, there's a lot of flash in the new player orientation tour.

 

[Millpond]

I made this point about 5 yrs ago but worth posting again.

There's a time for loading up for a deep run. Usually when you have most if not all of the pieces and are making a strong push in the standings. Usually then you take a deep look at what are your weakest links and what you should do to improve upon it. But if you making trades and giving away draft picks to give the team a chance to move from 6th to 5th or a marginal gain up, you need to think long and hard about that.
My opinion is when you have an average team that might win the first round and maybe put up a fight in the second round you should sell. Collect as many picks and younger players as much as possible. Go into each draft with at least your second and third round picks supplemented but a cpl more from trades. This will create a competitive camp and even once players have made the team they are always looking over their shoulder at their possible replacement. (see London and Ottawa and a cpl more teams for a blueprint)
Of course this isn't in the cards here, where we trade numerous picks to make a marginal move up or maybe to give the illusions to fans they are a contender to get an additional 400 fans per game. Then there's always trading a 5th round pick for another team unsigned 8th round picks especially if they are a local lad. Of course these trades are basically camouflaging an inept scouting staff so what the heck do picks really mean here in Kitchener

Interesting take .

Degray in Owen Sound took heat for not pulling off a huge deadline deal.

Out of the blue, he made what he called 'hockey trades ', identified the team needed some grit and found a couple reasonable guys to fit the bill.

No high picks involved. Player for player, and a late rd pick swap.

Time will tell if it was the right approach.

Everyone else was going big, or going home .

 

[GeoBlue]

?

 

[Mach85]

Going to echo the many comments about drafting/development being a huge issue. Kitchener is coasting on a rep at this point and soon that bought goodwill is going to run out if some things don't change around here. You can't continue to reap the benefits of being a destination franchise if you stop developing players for the next level and stop competing for championships.

London, who used to be a good comparison for us, is a destination franchise that continues to churn out talent for the next level. Thus, they'll continue to reap the benefits of found money in later rounds of the draft in the form of formerly NCAA-bound players reporting, and OHL draft fallers who won't go to the teams at the top of the draft but will go to London. At this point, Kitchener RELIES on those found-money players (e.g., Brzustewicz, Schmidt) and OHL draft fallers who have the talent to go closer to the top (e.g., Rehkopf) in order to keep them afloat as pseudo-competitors. How long will that continue to be an option? The difference with London is those two sources of talent are supplemental, and they've bookended them with strong drafting, developing, and coaching to ensure the long-term health of the organization.

 

[Rangers2022]

Missy made the best most intelligent moves at the deadline for a team that decided to sell. There future looks bright when it comes to the players they picked up in these trades. All will be the top stars in the league going forward. As old Kenny Rogers said" You got to know when to fold em". He knew more than roast chicken. Plus Missy will add their first pick in the draft. Imagine having your first and second pick on the team developing with the vets.


I just hope the parents of players in future drafts don't say this about the Rangers.

I totally agree with you here.
Mississauga was similar to the Rangers and decided to sell which we should have.
They picked up two 2006 first round players which were 5th & 6 th overall.
2005 first round player 13 th overall, plus another player and a bunch of draft picks.
We could have done something similar also.
Because it looks like were going no where.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

If the Coach's job is on the line, they are not playing like it; or, they're playing like they would like that to happen.

Or they're playing like his job is not on the line and couldn't get excited with a full lineup post trade and WJC for the first time enough to even compete with a rebuilding team.

It all adds up to bad hockey and a bad product on the ice. Not entertaining, despite several NHL drafted prospects and a couple soon to be drafted players. Not much sadder than that.

 

[Habsrule]

How I miss the Deboer and Spott days. The 2003 team will always be my top Rangers memory. It is not because they won the Memorial Cup but it is because they had a great team and were fun to watch.

In his second year in Kitchener they won the Memorial Cup but he made a bunch of great moves. I will say though that they were very fortunate or smart you can say to take over a team with a great young core; Roy, Eminger, Benoit, Ramsey, Smith, Dickie all as 16 and 17 year olds. I remember the first move they did was bringing in Policelli. He was one mean tough SOB to play against. He really set the tone for the team. That first season they bring Kanko over as an import and traded for Keefe. That season they were 35-22-10 on the year. They were good but it was the next year that it all counted.

Heading into their Mem Cup season they had a great core but every single player had one thing in common; they all hustled and played hard. When the best players on the team are all hard workers it sets the tone for any new players to the team. First move of that season was trading fan favourite Ramsey who had two years left for one year of Campbell. I remember fans not liking that one at the time. They bring in Clarkson and O’Nabigon during the season. Eason was in his second year and Harrison made an impact as a rookie defenceman.

Clarkson - Roy - Campbell
O’Nabigon - Richards - Kanko

Bottom 6 consisting of;

McGrath, Martynowski, McCaffrey, Grennier, McFarland, Keefe,

Eminger - Smith
Halkidis- Eason
Manias - Harrison
Duff

That was one hell of a tough team to play against.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

How I miss the Deboer and Spott days. The 2003 team will always be my top Rangers memory. It is not because they won the Memorial Cup but it is because they had a great team and were fun to watch.

In his second year in Kitchener they won the Memorial Cup but he made a bunch of great moves. I will say though that they were very fortunate or smart you can say to take over a team with a great young core; Roy, Eminger, Benoit, Ramsey, Smith, Dickie all as 16 and 17 year olds. I remember the first move they did was bringing in Policelli. He was one mean tough SOB to play against. He really set the tone for the team. That first season they bring Kanko over as an import and traded for Keefe. That season they were 35-22-10 on the year. They were good but it was the next year that it all counted.

Heading into their Mem Cup season they had a great core but every single player had one thing in common; they all hustled and played hard. When the best players on the team are all hard workers it sets the tone for any new players to the team. First move of that season was trading fan favourite Ramsey who had two years left for one year of Campbell. I remember fans not liking that one at the time. They bring in Clarkson and O’Nabigon during the season. Eason was in his second year and Harrison made an impact as a rookie defenceman.

Clarkson - Roy - Campbell
O’Nabigon - Richards - Kanko

Bottom 6 consisting of;

McGrath, Martynowski, McCaffrey, Grennier, McFarland, Keefe,

Eminger - Smith
Halkidis- Eason
Manias - Harrison
Duff

That was one hell of a tough team to play against.

Spott took over and instituted the country club atmosphere, and woefully bad coaching decisions that get doubled down on. He's coasted a long way on Deboer's coat tails and is another example of Rangers staff failing upward post-Deboer.

 

[Gondrex]

I totally agree with you here.
Mississauga was similar to the Rangers and decided to sell which we should have.
They picked up two 2006 first round players which were 5th & 6 th overall.
2005 first round player 13 th overall, plus another player and a bunch of draft picks.
We could have done something similar also.
Because it looks like were going no where.

The number of returnees from last year's squad was significant. While this team did lose a heart-and-soul guy in Petizian, the addition of Hamara, Mesar and Brzustewicz should have comparatively been a significant gain for this season, along with the further development of everyone else. Looking out the next couple years and realizing how past incompetent drafting would lead to a long period of futility going forward, MM likely saw this year as the year he must go all in. He probably realized that by selling this year, it would possibly lead to "3 years of nothing" and would be unacceptable to the fans.

As inconsistent as the team had been playing the first 1/4 season +, there was a period where the team had put a small string of wins together. I believe that it was this brief success which provided him with the confirmation he was looking for to pull the trigger on Arcuri and Moore, and making the statement that they were going for it.

I am of course speculating on the above, but it somewhat makes sense to me. There was that 6 game winning streak before Christmas that still (arguably) provides some hope.

I believe the talent is there. Not 100% sure if the line-up is truly built for the playoffs, but could be proven wrong. Regardless, this is a much better team than last year and should be doing better.....way better. It is mentally very tough to get out of a losing streak. I think PD had mentioned at one time how tough it is to battle the adversity of a losing streak. Having said that I have no idea why this team is so inconsistent, and especially now playing so poorly. Has this team just simply quit playing for the coach?....... can't get a grasp on CD's systems?

Now that they have the full line-up they were waiting for, they need to obviously figure out how to find some cohesion quickly or they'll continue to battle the Soo and Erie for the last playoff spot.