Player Discussion Kirill Kaprizov (Part 3)

[Dr Jan Itor]

Because goals are fun. More goals are more fun.

 

[MuckOG]

I continue to be asking the question:

If this team is 3rd in the league in goals, and if Kap-Hart-Zucc seems to be more or less unstoppable.....why is anyone asking about an upgrade at center? I know that no one is happy with the ? in a Boldy-?-Fiala line, so there is that....but still, the offense on this team is not something to cry about.

Goals against, however, is a big problem. If that doesn't settle down when Brodin and Spurge are back then something needs to be done there.

IMO, when we get to the playoffs, the hole we have at center between Boldy and Fiala will get exposed by the better teams. I also agree that we need to tighten up our defensive play, but Brodin and Spurgeon returning to the line-up should help with the goals against.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I continue to be asking the question:

If this team is 3rd in the league in goals, and if Kap-Hart-Zucc seems to be more or less unstoppable.....why is anyone asking about an upgrade at center? I know that no one is happy with the ? in a Boldy-?-Fiala line, so there is that....but still, the offense on this team is not something to cry about.

Goals against, however, is a big problem. If that doesn't settle down when Brodin and Spurge are back then something needs to be done there.

a quality C upgrade also helps with puck possession and goals against on top of the offensive upgrade. our defense has not looked amazing but they have shown to be ok with our best defenseman not in the lineup and then brodin is also out. we will be fine once healthy. kahk is needing more playing time, goalie usage is an issue.

**NOTE**
dont take the bait..

 

[BagHead]

a quality C upgrade also helps with puck possession and goals against on top of the offensive upgrade. our defense has not looked amazing but they have shown to be ok with our best defenseman not in the lineup and then brodin is also out. we will be fine once healthy. kahk is needing more playing time, goalie usage is an issue.

**NOTE**
dont take the bait..

Thing is, why are we expecting the team to be healthy? This is hockey. We've been the 2nd healthiest team in the league, and we're complaining about injuries.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Thing is, why are we expecting the team to be healthy? This is hockey. We've been the 2nd healthiest team in the league, and we're complaining about injuries.

we were healthy most the season until we got hit pretty heavy recently. are we just going to ignore being healthy going into the playoffs that we would have more of a C need than defense? who are we acquiring for 3rd pairing that is far better than addison?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

a quality C upgrade also helps with puck possession and goals against on top of the offensive upgrade. our defense has not looked amazing but they have shown to be ok with our best defenseman not in the lineup and then brodin is also out. we will be fine once healthy. kahk is needing more playing time, goalie usage is an issue.

**NOTE**
dont take the bait..

Does not compute.

 

[BagHead]

we were healthy most the season until we got hit pretty heavy recently. are we just going to ignore being healthy going into the playoffs that we would have more of a C need than defense? who are we acquiring for 3rd pairing that is far better than addison?

That's sort of my point. Since the injuries to Spurgeon and Brodin we've been floating at just above .500. It took the Wild being the healthiest team on the ice each game to make them look like contenders. When they have injuries to key players (something almost every single team has dealt with this year) they are a middling team. When the health between each team is equal, I think the Wild are just ok. I don't think a 2nd line center rental will turn an ok team into a contender, so I wouldn't move a 1st for it. I wouldn't move a 1st for a defenseman, either. To be clear, I wouldn't trade for any rentals this year unless the price was an absolute steal.

 

[GuerinUp]

That's sort of my point. Since the injuries to Spurgeon and Brodin we've been floating at just above .500. It took the Wild being the healthiest team on the ice each game to make them look like contenders. When they have injuries to key players (something almost every single team has dealt with this year) they are a middling team. When the health between each team is equal, I think the Wild are just ok. I don't think a 2nd line center rental will turn an ok team into a contender, so I wouldn't move a 1st for it. I wouldn't move a 1st for a defenseman, either. To be clear, I wouldn't trade for any rentals this year unless the price was an absolute steal.

this "middling" team has one of the highest points percentages in the league...

 

[BagHead]

this "middling" team has one of the highest points percentages in the league...

Yes, most of which was built while they were one of the healthiest teams in the league. The colloquialism "make hay while the sun shines" applies here.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

That's sort of my point. Since the injuries to Spurgeon and Brodin we've been floating at just above .500. It took the Wild being the healthiest team on the ice each game to make them look like contenders. When they have injuries to key players (something almost every single team has dealt with this year) they are a middling team. When the health between each team is equal, I think the Wild are just ok. I don't think a 2nd line center rental will turn an ok team into a contender, so I wouldn't move a 1st for it. I wouldn't move a 1st for a defenseman, either. To be clear, I wouldn't trade for any rentals this year unless the price was an absolute steal.

COL is healthy and we just took them to OT and easily could have won. a C we acquire does not become a 2C. they slide inbetween kap and zucc for that faceoff prowess. hartman drops down to 2c/3c depending on how you view boldy/fiala line. since the injuries we have not played many games, the winter classic was a joke but with boldy up and him clicking with fiala this team looks better. dewar makes that 4th line a tad faster and a little more physical which is great. a C upgrade for our first line to gain possession more often would be huge. i dont dislike hartmann there at all but he is not exactly winning 50% of the faceoffs.

 

[GuerinUp]

Yes, most of which was built while they were one of the healthiest teams in the league. The colloquialism "make hay while the sun shines" applies here.

we have games in hand on everyone above us except colorado.

 

[BagHead]

COL is healthy and we just took them to OT and easily could have won. a C we acquire does not become a 2C. they slide inbetween kap and zucc for that faceoff prowess. hartman drops down to 2c/3c depending on how you view boldy/fiala line. since the injuries we have not played many games, the winter classic was a joke but with boldy up and him clicking with fiala this team looks better. dewar makes that 4th line a tad faster and a little more physical which is great. a C upgrade for our first line to gain possession more often would be huge. i dont dislike hartmann there at all but he is not exactly winning 50% of the faceoffs.

To be clear, I think trading for a 2nd line center would make us better. I agree that it would be the final piece to two very good scoring lines. I agree that that team could do some damage in the playoffs. I just disagree that it turns them into a contender, and would prefer to keep stocking up on top young talent, so the Wild become a long-term contender instead of a maybe this year contender.

With Hanzal, I was on the side of the fence you're currently on. Now I'm not, because I've realized how rarely rentals actually push a team over the edge. Sometimes rentals ruin the team chemistry and cause the team to tailspin, sometimes they need time to gel and don't gel in time, sometimes teams get decimated by injuries and the rental isn't enough to help (yes, the Wild could end up less healthy, not more), and sometimes teams that just aren't quite good enough think they are quite good enough and waste their 1st round pick. There are just too many ways it can fail for me to want to trade such a high pick.

we have games in hand on everyone above us except colorado.

Are you expecting the Wild to be healthy for all of those?

 

[GuerinUp]

To be clear, I think trading for a 2nd line center would make us better. I agree that it would be the final piece to two very good scoring lines. I agree that that team could do some damage in the playoffs. I just disagree that it turns them into a contender, and would prefer to keep stocking up on top young talent, so the Wild become a long-term contender instead of a maybe this year contender.

With Hanzal, I was on the side of the fence you're currently on. Now I'm not, because I've realized how rarely rentals actually push a team over the edge. Sometimes rentals ruin the team chemistry and cause the team to tailspin, sometimes they need time to gel and don't gel in time, sometimes teams get decimated by injuries and the rental isn't enough to help (yes, the Wild could end up less healthy, not more), and sometimes teams that just aren't quite good enough think they are quite good enough and waste their 1st round pick. There are just too many ways it can fail for me to want to trade such a high pick.


Are you expecting the Wild to be healthy for all of those?

I think with the unique situation we are in we should go for it this year, our 1st rounder will be in the high 20s at this pace (which will not get you an elite player in most instances) and if we picked up say a giroux we could compete with the colorados and vegas's of this conference. you beat one of those teams in a series and could well be on your way to a cup final. also, i dont expect us to be healthy, i expect us to still win 55-60% of our games with some injuries though.

also, adding a giroux or hertl allows you to be more competitive if those injuries do arise. its win/win.

we have 3 more years to stockpile prospects, this year doesnt have to be the deal breaker

 

[BagHead]

I think with the unique situation we are in we should go for it this year, our 1st rounder will be in the high 20s at this pace (which will not get you an elite player in most instances) and if we picked up say a giroux we could compete with the colorados and vegas's of this conference. you beat one of those teams in a series and could well be on your way to a cup final. also, i dont expect us to be healthy, i expect us to still win 55-60% of our games with some injuries though.

also, adding a giroux or hertl allows you to be more competitive if those injuries do arise. its win/win.

we have 3 more years to stockpile prospects, this year doesnt have to be the deal breaker

Fair enough, I can't disagree with anything you say here, it's all pretty accurate. It seems like I'm just more on the risk averse side than you and DeagleJenkins (and most other Wild fans, these days).

 

[GuerinUp]

Fair enough, I can't disagree with anything you say here, it's all pretty accurate. It seems like I'm just more on the risk averse side than you and DeagleJenkins (and most other Wild fans, these days).

i mean i get it, with our history of deadline deals we havent been great. But imo that doesnt mean you quit trying. thats the gamble.

 

[AKL]

By my count we're 10-10 against teams currently in a playoff spot and 13-2 against teams not currently in a playoff spot, so the idea that a team that's .500 should be trading away prime future assets for a run this season because we should still be winning 60% of games even if we're injured seems like someone didn't actually fully cook that idea before they shared it.

To take that a step further, we're 1-8 against teams that currently have home ice advantage if the playoffs started today.

 

[GuerinUp]

By my count we're 10-10 against teams currently in a playoff spot and 13-2 against teams not currently in a playoff spot, so the idea that a team that's .500 should be trading away prime future assets for a run this season because we should still be winning 60% of games even if we're injured seems like someone didn't actually fully cook that idea before they shared it.

whats 23/35? 65%

and being 10-10 against playoff teams just goes to show you may be one piece away from making that a series winner in the playoffs....

id also like to point out at least 2 of those losses against playoff teams, have been WITH those said injuries.

also, almost all of those losses have been away, which means if we can get home ice advantage, we can win those series.

 

[AKL]

whats 23/35? 65%

and being 10-10 against playoff teams just goes to show you may be one piece away from making that a series winner in the playoffs....

id also like to point out at least 2 of those losses against playoff teams, have been WITH those said injuries.

also, almost all of those losses have been away, which means if we can get home ice advantage, we can win those series.

Turns out, in the playoffs, you don't play non-playoff teams, so those 15 games and 13 wins against non playoff teams don't matter. And the injuries don't matter either because you seem to think this team wins 60% of games regardless of whether they're injured or not.

There's a whole lot of "ifs" in your posts to justify half baked ideas.

1-8 against the top 4 teams in each conference right now.

 

[GuerinUp]

Turns out, in the playoffs, you don't play non-playoff teams, so those 15 games and 13 wins against non playoff teams don't matter. And the injuries don't matter either because you seem to think this team wins 60% of games regardless of whether they're injured or not.

There's a whole lot of "ifs" in your posts to justify half baked ideas.

1-8 against the top 4 teams in each conference right now.

theres not ifs in my post. youre just adding meaning to things that arent there. i never said we were 60% against playoff teams. i said we were winning 60% of our games still. which we are. adding talent to this team should increase that. and if we can get home ice advantage (which we are in a position to do currently) we should be able to do some damage.

that being said, i would prefer to get a giroux or hertl asap, not at the deadline, to move that needle more and give more time to make chemistry.

 

[57special]

The whole point with getting a Giroux/Pavelski is to help us on the PP. Speed doesn't matter there, winning FO's does, as well as skill, IQ, and proven offensive ability. We are a really good 5 v 5 team, but mediocre on special teams. I'd be willing to bet that we fix that with an acquisition of one of those two.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Turns out, in the playoffs, you don't play non-playoff teams, so those 15 games and 13 wins against non playoff teams don't matter. And the injuries don't matter either because you seem to think this team wins 60% of games regardless of whether they're injured or not.

There's a whole lot of "ifs" in your posts to justify half baked ideas.

1-8 against the top 4 teams in each conference right now.

Standings are incredibly imbalanced due to games played. We are 3-4 against the top 8 teams in the league by points percentage.(7 teams, cause Wild have 7th best percentage) Washington is 9th team, so if you want top 8 teams besides us, it's 4-4.

 

[AKL]

theres not ifs in my post. youre just adding meaning to things that arent there. i never said we were 60% against playoff teams. i said we were winning 60% of our games still. which we are. adding talent to this team should increase that. and if we can get home ice advantage (which we are in a position to do currently) we should be able to do some damage.

that being said, i would prefer to get a giroux or hertl asap, not at the deadline, to move that needle more and give more time to make chemistry.

I'm adding some sorely needed context so you're not operating under the impression that we're going to be winning 60% of our games in the playoffs. We're .500 against other playoff teams, and .111 against the top halves of each conference. That is not a team that makes a huge deadline acquisition. Certainly not without regretting it when we inevitably lose in round one, or maybe round two, again.

The team needs to actually be a high end, contending team before you go around making rash decisions like that. That's what got us into trouble for the decade Fletcher was here. Y'all are chomping at the bit to sell the farm and go for it all at the slightest sign of anything positive. You have no constraint to actually see it through being done correctly, and then in 10 years you'd have the audacity to wonder why it all went wrong, mixed with the desire to do it again the same way.

 

[AKL]

Standings are incredibly imbalanced due to games played. We are 3-4 against the top 8 teams in the league by points percentage.(7 teams, cause Wild have 7th best percentage) Washington is 9th team, so if you want top 8 teams besides us, it's 4-4.

3-4 in a playoff series sounds like losing that series and games in hand only mean anything if you actually get points from them, so that's tbd.

 

[GuerinUp]

I'm adding some sorely needed context so you're not operating under the impression that we're going to be winning 60% of our games in the playoffs. We're .500 against other playoff teams, and .111 against the top halves of each conference. That is not a team that makes a huge deadline acquisition. Certainly not without regretting it when we inevitably lose in round one, or maybe round two, again.

The team needs to actually be a high end, contending team before you go around making rash decisions like that. That's what got us into trouble for the decade Fletcher was here. Y'all are chomping at the bit to sell the farm and go for it all at the slightest sign of anything positive. You have no constraint to actually see it through being done correctly, and then in 10 years you'd have the audacity to wonder why it all went wrong, mixed with the desire to do it again the same way.

.500 against playoff teams is 7 game series's.... meaning 1 player could change that drastically....

i also never said "sell the farm"... if you can trade a 1st (which is going to be a high 20s pick) and a prospect not named boldy, rossi, walstedt or lambos, how is that selling the farm?

we have 3 years after this we can stockpile draft picks, etc because we wont be nearly as competitive. 1 draft pick and middling prospect is not going to blow this all up

 

[ThatGuy22]

3-4 in a playoff series sounds like losing that series and games in hand only mean anything if you actually get points from them, so that's tbd.

It's even less meaninful than that, because two of the wins and two of the losses in the 4-4 (that includes Washington) were in shootouts. soooo 2-2-4ish. Interestingly all of the losses were away from the X.

What it does show, is this team can play with any team in the league. And a heck of a lot of that came with Fiala's line basically being relatively ineffective, pre Boldy.

Boldy has strengthened the Fiala line a ton, adding another piece to get Gaudrau out of there would strengthen it a lot.