Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal

[ZUKI]

Well technically every contract are about FA status, since R/UFA status always need to be managed. In Dach case he will be UFA in 5 years.

Thanks
i was sure he would be RFA after his 4th season, so that the Habs still have his right

 

[ReHabs]

But this has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Salaries aren't tied to positions.

Brendan Gallagher is likely to be a 3rd line player this year making 6.25M.

Cole Caufield is likely to be a 1st line player making 880K.

I think you’re responding to a claim I didn’t intend to make.

Of course a player of any wage can play any TOI and on any line. This is obvious, and doesn’t need mentioning.

My point was that Gallagher on the third or fourth line is excessively cap-inefficient (ie bad). A 6.5m player playing bottom6 minutes will have many negative impacts on a team’s overall performance and competitiveness because, as a rule of thumb, a bottom line should be composed of cheaper players. This is to save cap space to pay premium players who will put up points and carry the team’s offensive needs. Caufield’s ELC ends after this year, Suzuki’s big contract kicks in this year. Players who put up points get big minutes and get paid sooner than later. We will need cap space for that, Gallagher eating up a ton of cap by himself takes away from our ability to pay for actually productive and useful players.

Gallagher on the 4th line isn’t just annoying because he’s overpaid… but given the cap, he takes around 8% of the salary cap for a position and contribution that should be around 1 to 2% at most. This 1-2% commitment can be replaced by a younger, hungrier, healthier player too. This problem will continue for another half a decade unless he goes into early LTIRETIREMENT.

He’s the worst contract we have left. A bone in the throat.

 

[417]

Of course a player of any wage can play any TOI and on any line. This is obvious, and doesn’t need mentioning.

Under the current climate of salary capology. I think it's worth mentioning.

My point was that Gallagher on the third or fourth line is excessively cap-inefficient (ie bad). A 6.5m player playing bottom6 minutes will have many negative impacts on a team’s overall performance and competitiveness because, as a rule of thumb, a bottom line should be composed of cheaper players. This is to save cap space to pay premium players who will put up points and carry the team’s offensive needs. Caufield’s ELC ends after this year, Suzuki’s big contract kicks in this year. Players who put up points get big minutes and get paid sooner than later. We will need cap space for that, Gallagher eating up a ton of cap by himself takes away from our ability to pay for actually productive and useful players.

I don't agree with the bolded...I don't think any single contract has that kind of butterfly effect on a roster to the point that it impacts negatively on the overall performance and competitiveness of a team. The Tampa Bay Lightning didn't suffer because they had Tyler Johnson and Barclay Goodrow as overpaid bottom 6 players on their roster...and their contracts didn't prevent them from paying their top 6/4 premium salaries.

Gallagher on the 4th line isn’t just annoying because he’s overpaid… but given the cap, he takes around 8% of the salary cap for a position and contribution that should be around 1 to 2% at most. This 1-2% commitment can be replaced by a younger, hungrier, healthier player too. This problem will continue for another half a decade unless he goes into early LTIRETIREMENT.

He’s the worst contract we have left. A bone in the throat.

Agreed here...he's clearly a sunken cost but every team has bad contracts, that doesn't mean the entire fate of the team is tied to it either.

When you've got a steady flow of cheap and young talent coming through on ELCs...you offset the losses you have on a contract like Gallagher's.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I guess this is off-topic but I don't think the Gallagher contract is going to cause too many issues in the long term. Broadly speaking there's two pathways here, either he's able to recover and stick around as a solid middle six forward at which point the 1-2M overpay isn't really an issue, or he won't be able to recover and will end up as a highly overpaid bottom six forward which would be a problem of course, but still a perfectly manageable one.

Cap efficiency doesn't really matter this year. It will begin to matter next year but Montreal is only going anywhere based on the efforts of young players, and those guys will mostly be on ELCs or cheap 2nd contracts. The rest of the lineup is going to be efficient enough over the next 2-3 seasons that there will still be ample "slack" in the salary cap to add players via trade/UFA if necessary. Beyond that and into the last two years of his contract I think we can be reasonably confident in an LTIR outcome, and otherwise the cost won't be too egregious to just dump the contract if necessary.

 

[ReHabs]

I guess this is off-topic but I don't think the Gallagher contract is going to cause too many issues in the long term. Broadly speaking there's two pathways here, either he's able to recover and stick around as a solid middle six forward at which point the 1-2M overpay isn't really an issue, or he won't be able to recover and will end up as a highly overpaid bottom six forward which would be a problem of course, but still a perfectly manageable one.

Cap efficiency doesn't really matter this year. It will begin to matter next year but Montreal is only going anywhere based on the efforts of young players, and those guys will mostly be on ELCs or cheap 2nd contracts. The rest of the lineup is going to be efficient enough over the next 2-3 seasons that there will still be ample "slack" in the salary cap to add players via trade/UFA if necessary. Beyond that and into the last two years of his contract I think we can be reasonably confident in an LTIR outcome, and otherwise the cost won't be too egregious to just dump the contract if necessary.

A lot of conjecture and speculation all to say that you don't think it hurts the Habs (who already have it hard enough with Salary Cap AAVs due to taxes) to be competing, when the time comes, at 92% of their max at the very highest.

I would buy that if it wasn't for the fact that the glut of these ELCs will expire before Gallagher's contract is over.

 

[417]

A lot of conjecture and speculation all to say that you don't think it hurts the Habs (who already have it hard enough with Salary Cap AAVs due to taxes) to be competing, when the time comes, at 92% of their max at the very highest.

I would buy that if it wasn't for the fact that the glut of these ELCs will expire before Gallagher's contract is over.

While others will begin.

 

[Redux91]

^ +salary cap rising again

 

[ReHabs]

While others will begin.

How many ELC players will contribute more than their cap hit? That’s the question.

It’s rare that NHL teams line up with many ELCs at the same time. Most of the time it’s like two regulars and some tweeners in filler roles. Non-ELCs need more cap space.

Gallagher doesn’t break our back but his NMC makes him a bone in our throats for real.

 

[417]

How many ELC players will contribute more than their cap hit? That’s the question.

Well that certainly depends on the quality of drafting and development.

It’s rare that NHL teams line up with many ELCs at the same time. Most of the time it’s like two regulars and some tweeners in filler roles. Non-ELCs need more cap space.

Gallagher doesn’t break our back but his NMC makes him a bone in our throats for real.

Yeah like I said, I don't think anyone can argue that Gallagher has a great contract. He doesn't...I knew it was a mistake the moment I saw Bergevin crying at the press conference.

But I don't think it's a death sentence either, we've seen it time and time again...when/if a team really wants to get rid of a "bad" contract, there's always a solution.

I just don't think it matters right now or in the short-term that Gallagher's contract is "bad". When the Montreal Canadiens are in a position to be competitive and if Brendan Gallagher's contract is a hinderance, they'll do like all other teams do and they'll find a way to get rid of it.

 

[ReHabs]

The topic of the conversation was bad Habs contracts. If every bad contract is just shrugged off because the Habs aren’t competitive today then I guess there is nothing to talk about right now.

 

[JoelWarlord]

A lot of conjecture and speculation all to say that you don't think it hurts the Habs (who already have it hard enough with Salary Cap AAVs due to taxes) to be competing, when the time comes, at 92% of their max at the very highest.

I would buy that if it wasn't for the fact that the glut of these ELCs will expire before Gallagher's contract is over.

I'm not sure where this response comes from exactly. Just because I am not doom posting about the 26-27 cap sheet on September 6th, 2022 does not mean I am some Pollyanna that believes the Gallagher situation is all great and fine and it won't hurt the team.

I explicitly said it would be a "manageable problem" if his play doesn't recover. Quite literally what I am saying is it will be bad but the team has the tools to work around it. As for the 2nd point, what I said is the Habs will have a lot of ELCs for the next 3 years, at which time there will be 2 years remaining on the contract with a good chance of an LTIR solution or simply paying to move on if necessary, not that the team will be full of ELCs for 5 years straight.

Gallagher doesn’t break our back but his NMC makes him a bone in our throats for real.

He does not have a full NMC. He has a 6 team no-trade list, and otherwise the NMC only protects him from being sent to the AHL without his permission.

 

[SlafySZN]

 

[417]

The topic of the conversation was bad Habs contracts. If every bad contract is just shrugged off because the Habs aren’t competitive today then I guess there is nothing to talk about right now.

Well firstly...the topic of conversation is (or at least supposed to be) about Dach.

Secondly...every single Habs fans knows Gallagher's got a less than ideal contract. We just supposed to keep repeating that over and over again.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I didn't listen yet, but I read online that Friedman says he hears the contract is about to be signed if it hasn't already.

He says he believes it's the 4 x $3.5M that he and Engels have already reported.

Friedman also adds that the announcement of the signing is likely delayed because Hughes might be working on a trade.

 

[SlafySZN]

I didn't listen yet, but I read online that Friedman says he hears the contract is about to be signed if it hasn't already.

He says he believes it's the 4 x $3.5M that he and Engels have already reported.

Friedman also adds that the announcement of the signing is likely delayed because Hughes might be working on a trade.

Yeah or they’re waiting on the LTRI for Price.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I didn't listen yet, but I read online that Friedman says he hears the contract is about to be signed if it hasn't already.

He says he believes it's the 4 x $3.5M that he and Engels have already reported.

Friedman also adds that the announcement of the signing is likely delayed because Hughes might be working on a trade.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Yeah or they’re waiting on the LTRI for Price.

Price's LTIR will kick in the night before the season opener, as teams finalize their rosters by the 5PM deadline.

Hughes has said that they would consider putting Price on off-season LTIR, but they'd surely prefer making a trade than do that.

 

[SlafySZN]

Price's LTIR will kick in the night before the season opener, as teams finalize their rosters by the 5PM deadline.

Hughes has said that they would consider putting Price on off-season LTIR, but they'd surely prefer making a trade than do that.

You’re right.

 

[Adam Michaels]

You’re right.

I'm always right....





Except when I'm not.

 

[SlafySZN]

Can he sign already and get his ass in Montreal already so i can have a picture of him with the habs jersey so i can change my profil picture

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I'm always right....





Except when I'm not.

...does your wife love that saying as much as mine does??...

I didn't listen yet, but I read online that Friedman says he hears the contract is about to be signed if it hasn't already.

He says he believes it's the 4 x $3.5M that he and Engels have already reported.

Friedman also adds that the announcement of the signing is likely delayed because Hughes might be working on a trade.

...please be Drouin...please be Drouin...or Hoffman...or Hoffman & Drouin...or Drouin & Hoffman...I'd take Lucic & George Freakin Canyon back at this point...

 

[CHfan1]

Price's LTIR will kick in the night before the season opener, as teams finalize their rosters by the 5PM deadline.

Hughes has said that they would consider putting Price on off-season LTIR, but they'd surely prefer making a trade than do that.

They are either going to have to make a trade or put Price on LTIR because they currently don’t have the cap room for Dach’s rumoured $3.5 million salary.

 

[themilosh]

Price's LTIR will kick in the night before the season opener, as teams finalize their rosters by the 5PM deadline.

Hughes has said that they would consider putting Price on off-season LTIR, but they'd surely prefer making a trade than do that.

What is the advantage for holding off on the ltir price?

 

[Runner77]

View attachment 582096

Is that how he broke his wrist, with that flinging motion at the very end?

Just one trade? With all the bunk on his roster, Hughes must be working on several fronts. How else is he going to hope to unload most or more of that excess baggage?

 

[cphabs]

Under the current climate of salary capology. I think it's worth mentioning.

I don't agree with the bolded...I don't think any single contract has that kind of butterfly effect on a roster to the point that it impacts negatively on the overall performance and competitiveness of a team. The Tampa Bay Lightning didn't suffer because they had Tyler Johnson and Barclay Goodrow as overpaid bottom 6 players on their roster...and their contracts didn't prevent them from paying their top 6/4 premium salaries.

Agreed here...he's clearly a sunken cost but every team has bad contracts, that doesn't mean the entire fate of the team is tied to it either.

When you've got a steady flow of cheap and young talent coming through on ELCs...you offset the losses you have on a contract like Gallagher's.

“don't think any single contract has that kind of butterfly effect on a roster to the point that it impacts negatively on the overall performance and competitiveness of a team”
Special treatment sure as hell does. And? Hopefully this is the last of it in our franchise.