Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal

[rik schau]

He like Kotkaniemi were a stretch at 3rd overall.
I hope under MSL he develops into a good player.

Perhaps but watching both skate currently,it's night and day.

 

[rik schau]

If they had been drafted in the same year ....Dach>>>KK

I really don't know what people saw in KK,baffling.lol

 

[rik schau]

That’s not at all reassuring. He’s gotta be a lot better than KK, just on account of development time lost to injury, which is now behind him.

Since he’s so weak at faceoffs, I hope he’s attending to that facet of his game this summer, if he’s serious about staying a C, which he claims is the only position he’ll play.

Being better than KK should not be difficult to surpass unless KK finally does improve as soon as this season,that is still possible.
As other have noted,he had a bum wrist which is crucial to face-offs and stick handling and shooting.

 

[WeThreeKings]

He like Kotkaniemi were a stretch at 3rd overall.
I hope under MSL he develops into a good player.

Neither were a stretch at 3rd overall. Hayton was a stretch at 5th.

You are grossly misremembering their draft years.

 

[Mcdonaldz]

Neither were a stretch at 3rd overall. Hayton was a stretch at 5th.

You are grossly misremembering their draft years.

I think you’re grossly exagerating your use of the word « grossly » here lol relax

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think you’re grossly exagerating your use of the word « grossly » here lol relax

People constantly want to re-write draft year histories to support their arguments.. but its factually incorrect and is easily dismissed with a modicum of research.

 

[Habs Halifax]

One of his linemates should be someone who can win a faceoff, if he is still struggling.

Also, a lack of a signed contract may be a strategy for other traded. Who knows what is in Hughes’ mind.

Curious, what winger would that be and would they be better than Dach even if he is struggling?

Dach had a total of 958 faceoffs in the last 3 years (Toews had 2830 to give perspective) and Dach % was 34.6%.

Here is a list of guys on the Habs last year organized by how many faceoffs they took. Dadonov took 5 faceoffs with the Knights last year.

 

[le_sean]

It's a risk for sure but sometimes you gotta swing for the fences if you want to get somewhere in this league.

No that’s the type of thing the Habs should have done with Subban instead of the bridge. At least you had a glimpse into the type of player he could become. We have no information on Dach other than he struggled to do anything in Chicago.

 

[WeThreeKings]

No that’s the type of thing the Habs should have done with Subban instead of the bridge. At least you had a glimpse into the type of player he could become. We have no information on Dach other than he struggled to do anything in Chicago.

Im a big Dach supporter and a long term deal now is too risky.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's a risk for sure but sometimes you gotta swing for the fences if you want to get somewhere in this league.

I agree but what long term deal do you think Dach and his agent would sign this summer? 8 years at $4M? Doubt his agent advises him to do so.

 

[Mcdonaldz]

People constantly want to re-write draft year histories to support their arguments.. but its factually incorrect and is easily dismissed with a modicum of research.

I’m guessing some of them go from what they read and/or don’t remember correctly… not eveybody got the before and after draft list on the last 20 drafts on their wall all the time.

To use words like « grossly misremember » because the guy thought he was ranked like 7th instead of of 3-4 is still exagerating lol

 

[Runner77]

Being better than KK should not be difficult to surpass unless KK finally does improve as soon as this season,that is still possible.
As other have noted,he had a bum wrist which is crucial to face-offs and stick handling and shooting.

Do we know what was his faceoff ability before the injury? How about in juniors? Maybe that was never his strong suit and the injury merely interrupted an existing weakness in his game.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Do we know what was his faceoff ability before the injury? How about in juniors? Maybe that was never his strong suit and the injury merely interrupted an existing weakness in his game.

It's been a weakness of his since junior.

In Junior:
2017-18 (41%)
2018-19 (41%) - Year of his draft

In Pros:
2019-20 (34%)
2020-21 (40%) - This was after his injury at the WJC
2021-22 (33%)

 

[Runner77]

It's been a weakness of his since junior.

In Junior:
2017-18 (41%)
2018-19 (41%) - Year of his draft

In Pros:
2019-20 (34%)
2020-21 (40%) - This was after his injury at the WJC
2021-22 (33%)

Thanks for that.

Clearly, his injury was not a deciding factor in respect of faceoff ability other than losing out on some development time. He can’t possibly hope to be a 2C if there is not a marked improvement on such paltry numbers, wouldn’t you say?

 

[Rob Sense]

Anyone implying giving dach a long term deal for kotkaniemi money literally has rocks for brains
Point production is not good, face off% is brutal
He has a lot to prove before he sniffs a long term deal

Kotkaniemi's point production was worse, he is not particularly good at face-offs, has a problem staying on his skates and he got 8 x 4.8M. So either Dumdon has rocks in his head (obviously!) or Dach will get at least this amount. Not saying this happens this summer...First a bridge but 8 x 5M would be market if he can top 40 points for a 22 year old big body center

 

[habsgirl5000]

Anyone implying giving dach a long term deal for kotkaniemi money literally has rocks for brains
Point production is not good, face off% is brutal
He has a lot to prove before he sniffs a long term deal

Agreed

He is a Jake Evans 2.0, unless he proves otherwise,

Personally, I am not getting my hopes up, I know better by now, and all of you should too

 

[Galchenyuk15]

Agreed

He is a Jake Evans 2.0, unless he proves otherwise,

Personally, I am not getting my hopes up, I know better by now, and all of you should too

The production are not there yet for Dach and comparable at Evans at this point but the ceiling are in two different universe and not the same age. Did you think Evans will manage to get a 1st, 3rd and 4rd pick if the habs trade him? If Evans have the same success in the faceoff circle than Dach in the past season; he will still be playing in AHL ...

Dach have all the talent in the world but for some reason the production is not there yet but give this guy a opportunity to prove otherwise and for god sake stop comparing him to Evans. One of the guy trying to be at top 6 guy with some offensive production and skill with a big body, the other try to be a 9 to 13 forwards and play in the nhl the longer he can and he hope playing 10 games in a row without getting an injury ...

 

[WeThreeKings]

Thanks for that.

Clearly, his injury was not a deciding factor in respect of faceoff ability other than losing out on some development time. He can’t possibly hope to be a 2C if there is not a marked improvement on such paltry numbers, wouldn’t you say?

No I don't think it really matters.. if he's in the 40% its fine.

Advanced analytics on face-offs is that in the end, it doesn't really have a marked effect on possession. What we typically have is a confirmation bias when someone wins/loses an important offensive or defensive zone face-off.

In which case, big offensive zone face-offs will be taken by the #1C and big defensive zone face-offs are taken by the Danault and Evans of the world.

And generally in big moments, you have a second center on the ice in case someone is waived out of the draw.

 

[habsgirl5000]

The production are not there yet for Dach and comparable at Evans at this point but the ceiling are in two different universe and not the same age. Did you think Evans will manage to get a 1st, 3rd and 4rd pick if the habs trade him? If Evans have the same success in the faceoff circle than Dach in the past season; he will still be playing in AHL ...

Dach have all the talent in the world but for some reason the production is not there yet but give this guy a opportunity to prove otherwise and for god sake stop comparing him to Evans. One of the guy trying to be at top 6 guy with some offensive production and skill with a big body, the other try to be a 9 to 13 forwards and play in the nhl the longer he can and he hope playing 10 games in a row without getting an injury ...

I go by stats and what I see with my eyes, draft position and potential don't mean anything,

What a player is acquired for is also not relevant to what he does on the ice

If he is better than Evans it's his job to prove it,

Unless proven otherwise, as of today he is Evans 2.0, and personally, I don't expect much more

When KK was originally drafted people laughed at me when I said he would be a 3C at best, I asked why they thought he would be more, the response was "he was taken 3rd overall"

 

[Sasha Orlov]

I go by stats and what I see with my eyes, draft position and potential don't mean anything,

What a player is acquired for is also not relevant to what he does on the ice

If he is better than Evans it's his job to prove it,

Unless proven otherwise, as of today he is Evans 2.0, and personally, I don't expect much more

When KK was originally drafted people laughed at me when I said he would be a 3C at best, I asked why they thought he would be more, the response was "he was taken 3rd overall"

Crazy that your amazing accurate predictions all came before you made your account on Monday lmfao

 

[Galchenyuk15]

Maybe you need to do a check with your eyes because the way you see Price as a back up goalie and the way you see Dach vs Evans, at the same age of Dach, Evans still in the NCAA and check the game not the stats because If you see some similarity in some way between the two players and the way they played; we have a problem there; a blind one ...

 

[habsgirl5000]

Crazy that your amazing accurate predictions all came before you made your account on Monday lmfao

There are many other hockey boards out there,

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Thanks for that.

Clearly, his injury was not a deciding factor in respect of faceoff ability other than losing out on some development time. He can’t possibly hope to be a 2C if there is not a marked improvement on such paltry numbers, wouldn’t you say?

Face off % is largely irrelevant imo. He will get better over time most likely, but I don’t think 40-45% success will prevent him from being a top 6 c as long as he produces.

 

[Runner77]

Face off % is largely irrelevant imo. He will get better over time most likely, but I don’t think 40-45% success will prevent him from being a top 6 c as long as he produces.

He’s been mostly closer to 33% as a pro.

Regardless, at least we now know that there is no correlation between his injury and his faceoff %.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

HuGo seemed so hell-bent at acquiring this guy, yet he's still unsigned. What gives? Not very fond of this trade. He certainly wasn't worth a first and third. A typical bergevesque move is how I like to describe it, going after reclaimation projects and hoping for the best. But this one was costly.