Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal

[1909]

I read the Jack Han article. I think it's quite an uphill road for us and Kirby Dach. Seems like he wasn't meant to be picked 3OA to begin with.

Reminds me of someone: KK ! BrindAmour (a better coach than most) had a full season to put KK back on track, and has not achieved much with him, yet. NHL is not a development league. Not much time to spend fixing flaws.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I read the Jack Han article. I think it's quite an uphill road for us and Kirby Dach. Seems like he wasn't meant to be picked 3OA to begin with.

He was 3rd on my list. Only Byram was really projected above him, there was some debate between Dach v Cozens but Cozens went 7th or 8th.

 

[DAChampion]

But the wrist injury happened.

 

[ottawa]

I read the Jack Han article. I think it's quite an uphill road for us and Kirby Dach. Seems like he wasn't meant to be picked 3OA to begin with.

He was around 3-5 on most lists IIRC

But the wrist injury happened.

Is this something he can heal from or he permanently damaged?

 

[NORiculous]

They do take longer but if he's not doing around 40 points next season then it does not look good. You don't go from 20 points to 70 points from 22 to 25. There should be a progression. He should be able next season to show some progress in his game and be in a transition between his peak and his debut. I said the same about JK a year ago btw.

Yes absolutely. The first thing and most important is that he isn’t held back from his wrist injury.

I am assuming right now that the injury will be fine. Habs did some DD.

I would add that he needs to show progress but depending on how he was used, it might not translate to production right away.

I expect him to need another 3 years before he breaks out. That would mean he needs to slowly move up to around 50 pts in those 3 years for me to think he will eventually hit 70+.

So 40 pts next year is a decent target, IMO.

 

[montreal]

i hear you... except on the romanov vs 13th pick part.

NHL Players selected at the 13th draft position at hockeydb.com

All players selected with the 13th position in the NHL draft

www.hockeydb.com

what i like about the approach is that Dach is as good or better - potential-wise - than anyone we could have had at 13th, and steps into the lineup right away. With Slaf, Mesar, Beck, Rohrer (and Roy, Kidney, Kapanen, Tuch, Mysak, Farell, Ylonen, Heineman, Schnarr, Smilanic et.) we all of a sudden have a pretty large pool of fwd prospects with legit top-6 upside in a 2-4 year window. Organization context-wise, i get placing more value on the NHL established Dach over another high-ish end draft prospect.

Time will tell how good their evaluation of Dach vs what was available at 13, but for now i like the odds.

I don't pay too much attention to the history of the pick, I say trust your scouts. I am very high on Nazar though and would have easily taken him top 5 if we traded down. So I could just be too high on him in the little i've seen.

I get the trade and just have to hope they got it right and he ends up being a good player for us.

Chicago had an offer of 11th OA for Dach. So you're wrong on his value.

teams are going to value a 20 year old top 3 pick with his size/skill package, I'm actually surprised more teams weren't interested and the cost higher.

Slafkovsky-Dach-Anderson

How can you not be excited about that?

Slaf should be with Suzuki and CC imo.

Dach will be a Center in Montreal whether he likes it or not.

not if he doesn't get better at face-offs.

 

[cphabs]

Reminds me of someone: KK ! BrindAmour (a better coach than most) had a full season to put KK back on track, and has not achieved much with him, yet. NHL is not a development league. Not much time to spend fixing flaws.

Expansion? While in a capped profit sharing league? Absolutely lends itself to rushing development of players.

 

[26Mats]

I don't pay too much attention to the history of the pick, I say trust your scouts. I am very high on Nazar though and would have easily taken him top 5 if we traded down. So I could just be too high on him in the little i've seen.

I get the trade and just have to hope they got it right and he ends up being a good player for us.



teams are going to value a 20 year old top 3 pick with his size/skill package, I'm actually surprised more teams weren't interested and the cost higher.



Slaf should be with Suzuki and CC imo.



not if he doesn't get better at face-offs.

We need to out both Slaf and Dach in the best possible position to succeed. Whether that means sheltered minutes in the bottom six or playing with our better players as opposed to faulty vets. Whatever is best for them.

Reminds me of someone: KK ! BrindAmour (a better coach than most) had a full season to put KK back on track, and has not achieved much with him, yet. NHL is not a development league. Not much time to spend fixing flaws.

Well management has said this is a development year over here in Habs land.

I hope they stick to that.

The priority should be developing Dach and Slaf.

Next priority is between in the one hand showcasing vets like Dadonov, Drouin, Byron, Armia, Gallagher, and Anderson and on the other hand developing secondary prospects like Poehling and Evans.

Harris, Barron, and Guhle can always develop in the A if need be.

 

[1909]

Expansion? While in a capped profit sharing league? Absolutely lends itself to rushing development of players.

Teams need 23 players to fill their line up and have a limited amount of $$$ to do so. Some players are overpaid, and teams are promoting young (cheap) guys too early to fill jerseys. Great organisations are very clever to navigate the system like the Bolts. I hope Avs have learned from them.

 

[cphabs]

Teams need 23 players to fill their line up and have a limited amount of $$$ to do so. Some players are overpaid, and teams are promoting young (cheap) guys too early to fill jerseys. Great organisations are very clever to navigate the system like the Bolts. I hope Avs have learned from them.

Fantastic!

 

[Canad13ns]

My prediction for Dach is a Danault replacement at half the price, and bigger... for the next 10 years

I doubt it very much but I would love it if you were right. (I suspect, however, that you are a hopeless optimist or doing recreational drugs.) There are few Danault's out there, and Danault was mentored in that role (shut-down forward against top lines, face-off wins) by Plekanec who was acknowledged by Marchand and others to be hell to play against. Who is going to mentor Dach in this role?

 

[Deebs]

Was interesting to listen to Dave Poulin talk about Dach and how/why the Hawks gave up on him.

He said people don't understand how hard it is for guys to play with Patrick Kane, especially a extremely young player who's missed significant practice time.

Referred to himself playing with Gretzky in the Canada Cup and him being completely lost on the ice. Wayne thought the game at such a ridiculous level, they just couldn't click.

He's thinks a fresh start with us is exactly what Kirby needs with similar thinking linemates.

 

[Canad13ns]

I don't think Dach has to be great next year to develop into a good NHL center. I don't expect Dach to become Danault (but that would be great!) But Danault was 24 before the had the same number of NHL games as Dach has at 21, and was 24 before he had the same number of NHL points as Dach has. Danault continued to improve after 24, becoming a .65 ppg player and a defensive specialist. That would be a good outcome for the Romanov trade and we could afford to wait for it since we need some other prospects to develop as well.

 

[montreal]

I don't think Dach has to be great next year to develop into a good NHL center. I don't expect Dach to become Danault (but that would be great!) But Danault was 24 before the had the same number of NHL games as Dach has at 21, and was 24 before he had the same number of NHL points as Dach has. Danault continued to improve after 24, becoming a .65 ppg player and a defensive specialist. That would be a good outcome for the Romanov trade and we could afford to wait for it since we need some other prospects to develop as well.

it's his age 21 season so for me I would just look for progress, it's ok if it takes a few years to get there.

 

[Archijerej]

What's with those Danault comparisons? They are completely different types of players.

 

[Justin11]

What's with those Danault comparisons? They are completely different types of players.

Exactly...night and day.

 

[Ozmodiar]

What's with those Danault comparisons? They are completely different types of players.

Chicago.

… and hockey.

Do the math!

 

[Mrb1p]

Was interesting to listen to Dave Poulin talk about Dach and how/why the Hawks gave up on him.

He said people don't understand how hard it is for guys to play with Patrick Kane, especially a extremely young player who's missed significant practice time.

Referred to himself playing with Gretzky in the Canada Cup and him being completely lost on the ice. Wayne thought the game at such a ridiculous level, they just couldn't click.

He's thinks a fresh start with us is exactly what Kirby needs with similar thinking linemates.

Wasn't too hard for 39 yo Michael Handzus, 59 years old Brad Richards, Anisimov, Nick Schmaltz, Dylan Strome, Andrew Shaw, Marcus Kruger, Bob Lang and Ryan fkn Carpenter lmao.

 

[DAChampion]

What's with those Danault comparisons? They are completely different types of players.

Former Chicago 1st round draft picks with black hair that are centers.

That's the standard intellectual level for player comparisons.

 

[themilosh]

I doubt it very much but I would love it if you were right. (I suspect, however, that you are a hopeless optimist or doing recreational drugs.) There are few Danault's out there, and Danault was mentored in that role (shut-down forward against top lines, face-off wins) by Plekanec who was acknowledged by Marchand and others to be hell to play against. Who is going to mentor Dach in this role?

Guy is big, strong and fast with hi IQ. Obviously he wont be a high goal scorer because of his wrist injury (I doubt that will ever be perfect) - but he has everything else. He will need to re-invent himself as a top-end two-way forward (shut down) who feeds his linemates and pots a goal here or there.
I don't think with his tools, and pedigree (pre injury) it will be too difficult to reinvent himself as such. There will be several players saying it is hell to play against the "Dach" line especially if Slaf plays with him. Just a new version of Hull-Oates

 

[habergeon]

You know that he played most of his minutes with Kane and Debrincat ? How are they not scoring wingers ?

Where are you getting your info, a November Hockey Writers article? If the answer I’d yes the yes, he was playing with them, at that time.

Do you believe he spent all year with those guys , because one scored 40 goals and Kane had 92 points. Dach responsible?

Respectfully not sure I you are saying here

 

[Mrb1p]

Where are you getting your info, a November Hockey Writers article? If the answer I’d yes the yes, he was playing with them, at that time.

Do you believe he spent all year with those guys , because one scored 40 goals and Kane had 92 points. Dach responsible?

Respectfully not sure I you are saying here

He did spend a great part of the year and the majority of his minutes with one of the two. The fact he didn't get any points while playing with Kaner and Debrincat is ... Concerning.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Reminds me of someone: KK ! BrindAmour (a better coach than most) had a full season to put KK back on track, and has not achieved much with him, yet. NHL is not a development league. Not much time to spend fixing flaws.

He wasn't trying to develop KK. He was trying to win. He at least recognized that Jarvis is an elite talent but he messed around with Necas and left KK on lines with trash in favor of Trochek since he was trying to win.

 

[habergeon]

He did spend a great part of the year and the majority of his minutes with one of the two. The fact he didn't get any points while playing with Kaner and Debrincat is ... Concerning.

I understand what you are saying, but if you look deeper how much PP time did Dach get with those guys? What’s the even strength points each generated playing together?

I’m not saying Dach is a finished product, or a not a gamble. There are legitimate concerns, I share them.

I just think suggesting he should have piled up points is a reach. I’ve seen him play, and he was not used in offence situations where his wingers were.

He was -18 playing with a guy who scored 92 points. My point was he wasn’t used as offensively as he will be here, sorry if that didn’t come out as clear as I’d like, it’s a struggle for me at times

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Is it true that Romanov is still in Russia and stuck there?

Also that he received a 2 year contract offer from KHL team for like 965k a year?

If so, Hughes hoodwinked Chicago!