Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Estimated_Prophet]

Yes, the goals are starting to come and he's playing better but what I'm focusing on is how his form actually looks like compared to pre injury and it still looks like it has a long ways to go.

You see how Laine enters the zone and holds/protects the puck while scanning his playmaking options? Dach would do that regularly and based on the games I've seen, he's still not doing it. Hes still tentative with making power moves to the net or utilizing his reach.

I see him more content to play it safe with the chip and chase to gain entry. Which is not bad in itself but it makes you a more generic player.

Happy to see him get on the scoreboard a few times recently but I'm still not seeing the same player.

The thing is that Dach is actually starting to enter the zone with control and hang on to the puck. His turns are much crisper and as I have been calling out for the last 3 weeks he is consistently starting to improve after stagnating in a rut for most of the season so far.

The same people who were calling him a bust and were jumping on MSL as a bad coach are once again having to eat crow when their hyperbolic hot takes prove to be nonsensical.

This is not to say that I don't have concerns as there has always been a level of concern with his lackadaisical demeanor but he was turning into a stud before the injury and has taken a giant step towards that high water mark in recent weeks. Anyone writing him off as early as they were, were just engaging in tribal mob behaviour which is the unfortunate result of pro sports and the type of thinking that is common among fans of these sports.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

He had a meniscus tear too? Cartilage replacement? Complete reconstruction?

ACL and MCL. Together that’s every direction covered. In that sense, yes reconstructed

 

[Sorinth]

He doesn't have a below average shot, the self anointed truisms on this board are mind numbing.

He's below 50th percentile in top shot speed, average shot speed, number of 100+ mph shots, number of 90-100 mph shots, and 80-90 mph shots.

The only shot stat where he's above 50th percentile is 70-80 mph shots, and that's based on having 16 such shots when the average is 15. But can be seen as a result of being almost 4 shots below average of 80-90. So he's only above average in that group because other guys are getting more shots above the range.

And it's arguably even worse then that because he's actually got a pretty good percentile in terms of shot location. 77th percentile in high danger locations (Front of the net), and 70th percentile in medium range (The slot) but his shooting percentage in those locations is again below 50th percentile for those locations.

So it's verifiably true that he has a below average shot.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

He's below 50th percentile in top shot speed, average shot speed, number of 100+ mph shots, number of 90-100 mph shots, and 80-90 mph shots.

The only shot stat where he's above 50th percentile is 70-80 mph shots, and that's based on having 16 such shots when the average is 15. But can be seen as a result of being almost 4 shots below average of 80-90. So he's only above average in that group because other guys are getting more shots above the range.

And it's arguably even worse then that because he's actually got a pretty good percentile in terms of shot location. 77th percentile in high danger locations (Front of the net), and 70th percentile in medium range (The slot) but his shooting percentage in those locations is again below 50th percentile for those locations.

So it's verifiably true that he has a below average shot.

I disagree with this assertion my friend.

This is a faulty way to determine whether a player has a good shot. This only tells you about the shots he has taken and does not say anything about what he is capable of. Almost all of his shots this season have simply been him sending the puck towards the net without any real intent or purpose. This has actually been a problem with him since he turned pro as he is a playmaker and has a pass first mindset. I have seen him take some hard shots when he commits to it but he rarely does and this is something that he needs to address.

I would be the first to tell you that he has taken very few good shots this season and these results are not remotely surprising. When he commits to taking the shot he has a decent shot. He will never be a sniper but to call his shot below average is just wrong. Just claiming that he has a poor shot It is entirely different than the fact that he has been a below average shooter despite having a decent shot.....they are different statements but will appear identical statistically and like all stats they are meaningless without context.

 

[le_sean]

He's below 50th percentile in top shot speed, average shot speed, number of 100+ mph shots, number of 90-100 mph shots, and 80-90 mph shots.

The only shot stat where he's above 50th percentile is 70-80 mph shots, and that's based on having 16 such shots when the average is 15. But can be seen as a result of being almost 4 shots below average of 80-90. So he's only above average in that group because other guys are getting more shots above the range.

And it's arguably even worse then that because he's actually got a pretty good percentile in terms of shot location. 77th percentile in high danger locations (Front of the net), and 70th percentile in medium range (The slot) but his shooting percentage in those locations is again below 50th percentile for those locations.

So it's verifiably true that he has a below average shot.

I’m sorry but someone is actually arguing in favour of his shot being a plus? Come on now, he has definite qualities as a player but that’s definitely not one of them. Saying so is just flat out lying.

Accuracy isn’t a big issue but it’s a definite muffin.

 

[DAChampion]

I’m sorry but someone is actually arguing in favour of his shot being a plus? Come on now, he has definite qualities as a player but that’s definitely not one of them. Saying so is just flat out lying.

Accuracy isn’t a big issue but it’s a definite muffin.

I think the argument was that Dach is not adequately using his shot (location, direction, power, etc) due to lack of confidence and having missed a lot of development time.

As an example, I remember hearing Wayne Gretzky saying that he never had the most powerful shot, but he knew when to shoot it and where. It's also the case that ab excellent playmaker will be given more room to shoot.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

As mixed baggy as the 2nd line has been, they’re producing of late and they have the potential to be WAY better. That’s what’s really exciting. They’re getting decent looks. They’re dog shit in their own zone but I think it’s workable.

It’s pretty damn exciting right now. If this is them at their worst then we’re in good shape. Strong likelihood they’re only going to get better

 

[Rapala]

As mixed baggy as the 2nd line has been, they’re producing of late and they have the potential to be WAY better. That’s what’s really exciting. They’re getting decent looks. They’re dog shit in their own zone but I think it’s workable.

It’s pretty damn exciting right now. If this is them at their worst then we’re in good shape. Strong likelihood they’re only going to get better

Both goals yesterday were very fixable errors.
McGuire was saying a pass like the one Kirby tried in a playoff game would earn him a spot at the end of the bench.
He also said on the second goal that the soft side D coverage is the easiest job in hockey.
Dach having played both center and wing has to recognize this and make sure he's between Hanafin and the net.

The good news is the line is starting to produce so these mistakes aren't totally killing us.
Both Dach and Newhook can now try to work on this stuff in a better head space once again feeling like they are part of the team

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Both goals yesterday were very fixable errors.
McGuire was saying a pass like the one Kirby tried in a playoff game would earn him a spot at the end of the bench.
He also said on that second goal that the soft side D coverage is the easiest job in hockey.
Dach having played both center and wing has to recognize this and make sure he's between Hanafin and the net.

The good news is the line is starting to produce so these mistakes aren't totally killing us.
Both Dach and Newhook can now try to work on this stuff in a better head space once again feeling like they are part of the team

Yeah our depth is allowing them to slowly work on these things with not too much pressure I think

 

[Sorinth]

I disagree with this assertion my friend.

This is a faulty way to determine whether a player has a good shot. This only tells you about the shots he has taken and does not say anything about what he is capable of. Almost all of his shots this season have simply been him sending the puck towards the net without any real intent or purpose. This has actually been a problem with him since he turned pro as he is a playmaker and has a pass first mindset. I have seen him take some hard shots when he commits to it but he rarely does and this is something that he needs to address.

I would be the first to tell you that he has taken very few good shots this season and these results are not remotely surprising. When he commits to taking the shot he has a decent shot. He will never be a sniper but to call his shot below average is just wrong. Just claiming that he has a poor shot It is entirely different than the fact that he has been a below average shooter despite having a decent shot.....they are different statements but will appear identical statistically and like all stats they are meaningless without context.

The hardest shot he's taken this year is 81.53 mph, the average hardest shot taken by other NHL forwards is 83.15 mph. So having a pass first mentality and/or mostly just putting the puck on net without intent to score is irrelevant because this is his hardest shot he has taken, and he's below average.

His hardest shot was below average last year but that's not fair because it was only 2 games, but it was below average the year before which is more fair, and it was below average the year before that as well when he was with Chicago. His best shots are simply below what is average for a forwards best shot.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The hardest shot he's taken this year is 81.53 mph, the average hardest shot taken by other NHL forwards is 83.15 mph. So having a pass first mentality and/or mostly just putting the puck on net without intent to score is irrelevant because this is his hardest shot he has taken, and he's below average.

His hardest shot was below average last year but that's not fair because it was only 2 games, but it was below average the year before which is more fair, and it was below average the year before that as well when he was with Chicago. His best shots are simply below what is average for a forwards best shot.

Yeah, he’s never going to be Patrick Laine. He was working to improve on it before and that probably took a back burner because of his leg injury. Shooting’s never going to be a strong point for him but that doesn’t mean he can’t continue to improve.

Anyways, I’m glad to see he’s having some success. Seems to have finally turned the corner a little bit.

 

[Habs7631]

Slowly but surely starting to see more and more flashes.

At the beginning of the year you could feel the lack of confidence/hesitation through the screen every time he’d get the puck. Just overthinking every little move. But he’s starting to just move his feet and trust his instincts more. He’s looking a step quicker, more explosive, starting to see more of those rushes carrying the puck with confidence and control zone entries.

Let’s see how the second half of the year goes for him but some progress is nice to see.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

He is starting to drive into high traffic zones again, the improvement is obvious each game.

 

[Archijerej]

It's encouraging that his skating is coming back. That's something to build upon.

Baby steps, but I feel more optimistic about Dach than I did a month ago.