Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[DAChampion]

The forum consensus two weeks ago:

The issues with Dach are numerous. He was a reach at 3rd overall. Chicago saw he was bad and wanted to move on from him. He has no NHL assets other than size. His shot is a muffin, and low compete. He's not a center. Harvey-Pinard has shown more NHL skill than Dach. If he was placed on waivers, nobody would claim him.

 

[Andrei79]

The forum consensus two weeks ago:

The issues with Dach are numerous. He was a reach at 3rd overall. Chicago saw he was bad and wanted to move on from him. He has no NHL assets other than size. His shot is a muffin, and low compete. He's not a center. Harvey-Pinard has shown more NHL skill than Dach. If he was placed on waivers, nobody would claim him.

I wouldn't call a few vocal posters throwing temper tantrums a consensus.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The forum consensus two weeks ago:

The issues with Dach are numerous. He was a reach at 3rd overall. Chicago saw he was bad and wanted to move on from him. He has no NHL assets other than size. His shot is a muffin, and low compete. He's not a center. Harvey-Pinard has shown more NHL skill than Dach. If he was placed on waivers, nobody would claim him.

The classic hero or zero evaluation with some fans. Never changes with them.... they fall for the up/downs on the rollercoaster ride.

I would move Dach and add futures if we were to get an upgrade at center but make no mistake. This is not because I don't think he will be good. It's because I think he will take another 3 years to reach his ceiling. We need someone who can move the needle now at 2C.

I don't think we should be wasting prime years of Suzuki on a value contract... starting next season. The time to make moves is now and into this summer. We have the surplus of futures and assets to improve this team for the now and the future.

 

[DAChampion]

I wouldn't call a few vocal posters throwing temper tantrums a consensus.

But I sometimes enjoy hyperbole !

 

[Deebs]

The classic hero or zero evaluation with some fans. Never changes with them.... they fall for the up/downs on the rollercoaster ride.

I would move Dach and add futures if we were to get an upgrade at center but make no mistake. This is not because I don't think he will be good. It's because I think he will take another 3 years to reach his ceiling. We need someone who can move the needle now at 2C.

I don't think we should be wasting prime years of Suzuki on a value contract... starting next season. The time to make moves is now and into this summer. We have the surplus of futures and assets to improve this team for the now and the future.

Why would it take Kirby three more years to reach his ceiling?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why would it take Kirby three more years to reach his ceiling?

Because I don't think his prime is long like Suzuki, Caufield, Hutson (for example). Their prime started at a early age. With Dach, I think his prime is age 26-33 ish. Lots of players have primes delayed like this because it take years to mature. And with Dach, there was several injuries that held back his development/growth.

I believe in Dach but I believe his value comes later. Not now. Hope he proves me wrong

 

[Naslundforever]

Looks like he’s back in the saddle again, the Dach we remember from 2 years ago in the second half.

Happy to see it!

What’s funny is the second half of that year I shut off the habs for the 1st time since the 90’s, I just could not anymore.

So I’ve never seen “good” Dach.

Hoping it lasts, he does seem in shape and is somehow weeding out the Matheson-esque brain farts and systematic late-game minor penalties.

 

[OldCraig71]

I wasn't a fan during the bad times, so I won't make those "eat crow" comments or apologize for being wrong. I just acknowledge that some of my takes about him were bad. Even though I'm old I still have plenty to learn.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I wasn't a fan during the bad times, so I won't make those "eat crow" comments or apologize for being wrong. I just acknowledge that some of my takes about him were bad. Even though I'm old I still have plenty to learn.

We all say things that are wrong at time. Credit goes to you for standing up about it. Not many do this.

Dach has been frustrating yes. As time moves forward, I am seeing someone who ends up a good top 6 player but it comes later. There will be more up/down movement for a little while yet

 

[Walrus26]

Dach is back to doing unfeasible sexy dangles with his giraffe-like frame and to using his body more effectively. He exudes swagger when he's feeling good about his game, and that swagger is definitely back.

Maybe a sports psych can help him with that apparent need for self-confidence in his game.....or maybe it's all been a part of him healing?

Anyway, hopefully we get less of that "worst 2C in the whole league" going forward.

 

[Naslundforever]

I wasn't a fan during the bad times, so I won't make those "eat crow" comments or apologize for being wrong. I just acknowledge that some of my takes about him were bad. Even though I'm old I still have plenty to learn.

Hey we can only comment on what we see, we don’t know what injuries these guys have or what they are working on.

Also as these kids age they’ll get more consistent and easy to evaluate (although vets are showing us they can turn it around as well this year; good times!).

 

[Guy Larose]

We all say things that are wrong at time. Credit goes to you for standing up about it. Not many do this.

Dach has been frustrating yes. As time moves forward, I am seeing someone who ends up a good top 6 player but it comes later. There will be more up/down movement for a little while yet

It's not about being wrong, it's about some posters that post relentlessly, hammering in their bad take as if it's fact. These people know who they are and mostly just come out when things go badly for a player or the team. Everyone can be wrong.

 

[LaP]

The forum consensus two weeks ago:

The issues with Dach are numerous. He was a reach at 3rd overall. Chicago saw he was bad and wanted to move on from him. He has no NHL assets other than size. His shot is a muffin, and low compete. He's not a center. Harvey-Pinard has shown more NHL skill than Dach. If he was placed on waivers, nobody would claim him.

rofl if Dach goas on waiver he is taken by the first team speaking.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's not about being wrong, it's about some posters that post relentlessly, hammering in their bad take as if it's fact. These people know who they are and mostly just come out when things go badly for a player or the team. Everyone can be wrong.

Can't argue with this. There are some posters who annoy the F out of me with their ignorance. Lots of focus to just belittle and coming from a cranky place I guess.

 

[salbutera]

Can't argue with this. There are some posters who annoy the F out of me with their ignorance. Lots of focus to just belittle and coming from a cranky place I guess.

There this belief that you cannot win unless you tank & draft a McDavid - and if by rare chance you do it’s instantaneous switch On

How many years did it take Mario, Ovy, MacKinnon et al to actually win in the playoffs let alone win the Cup? McDavid still hasn’t 9-years post draft

 

[Habs Halifax]

6'-4" and 221 lbs.

Imagine what he looks like on the ice when he is 25+. He's going to be one of the tougher forwards to deal with IMO. Regardless of him playing C or RW. Personally, I think he is a power forward winger with puck possession skill.

Can't have anymore major injuries setting him back

If we can't find an upgrade over Dach at 2C, lets try Demidov at center and have Dach on his RW.

There this belief that you cannot win unless you tank & draft a McDavid.

How many years did it take Mario, Ovy, MacKinnon et al to actually win the playoffs let alone win the Cup? McDavid still hasn’t 9-years post draft

When you look at Tampa and the Avs, they won when most of their core was age 26+. If you apply that to the Habs, we have 3+ years before most of our core is 26+ and I think Demidov will be 22 by then?

 

[salbutera]

When you look at Tampa and the Avs, they won when most of their core was age 26+. If you apply that to the Habs, we have 3+ years before most of our core is 26+ and I think Demidov will be 22 by then?

And they never won till they had a deep team - until their 3rd & 4th liners were playoff capable types.

It’s what makes this Habs team intriguing, IF they manage to sneak into playoffs they’ve got a bottom-6 (4-of whom), are playoff tested and could actually do some damage, assuming a top-4 RD is added.

There’s still a long ways to go but sum of all parts teams win in the playoffs every year

 

[Deebs]

And they never won till they had a deep team - until their 3rd & 4th liners were playoff capable types.

It’s what makes this Habs team intriguing, IF they manage to sneak into playoffs they’ve got a bottom-6 (4-of whom), are playoff tested and could actually do some damage, assuming a top-4 RD is added.

There’s still a long ways to go but sum of all parts teams win in the playoffs every year

The first two lines get you to the dance but it's the bottom 2 lines that get you the cup.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And they never won till they had a deep team - until their 3rd & 4th liners were playoff capable types.

It’s what makes this Habs team intriguing, IF they manage to sneak into playoffs they’ve got a bottom-6 (4-of whom), are playoff tested and could actually do some damage, assuming a top-4 RD is added.

There’s still a long ways to go but sum of all parts teams win in the playoffs every year

Totally agree. The Habs do have some parts that can cause some damage in the 1st round (if we make it). Say what you want to say about Anderson, Savard, Gallagher, Armia but they have gas left in the tank and know what the playoffs is about.

In terms of our depth moving forward, we don't have to fill that with UFA signings (for the most part). We will have lots of ELC/bridge deals to guys like Kapanen, Beck, Mailloux, Roy, etc.

It's lining up very well. Just need to figure out how we can add to our core when the time is right. We have lots of assets we can use

The first two lines get you to the dance but it's the bottom 2 lines that get you the cup.

Yup! Leafs are learning that the hard way . Joking aside, I do think the Leafs have better depth now and they will improve that at the next TDL.

 

[LaP]

Can't argue with this. There are some posters who annoy the F out of me with their ignorance. Lots of focus to just belittle and coming from a cranky place I guess.

Back in the early days of Internet i remember arguing with a fefans about Damhpousse. He was arguing that Barnaby was a better player and that he would not trade four Damphousse for Barnaby and that the perfect team would be 20 Barnaby. This is the kind of people we are often arguying with sadly.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Slowly rounding into form.

This is why they had to give him the whole season.

 

[Shutdown]

The forum consensus two weeks ago:

The issues with Dach are numerous. He was a reach at 3rd overall. Chicago saw he was bad and wanted to move on from him. He has no NHL assets other than size. His shot is a muffin, and low compete. He's not a center. Harvey-Pinard has shown more NHL skill than Dach. If he was placed on waivers, nobody would claim him.

some people woke up on christmas day (not even two weeks ago) and shooed away their wife and kids to post that it was a failure of a trade and he's not even an NHLer

 

[waitin425]

So it took Dach half a season to rebound from missing an entire season.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

If you’re merely saying Dach wasn’t playing well that’s fine

If you’re skeptical about him ever getting better sure that COULD’VE happened.

If you’re so sure of yourself he would 100% never get better you wanted to be rid of him two weeks ago before he has a real chance that’s a bit off.

But if you went through the mental gymnastics that he was never good in the first place and everyone who thinks he has upside is a HuGo cuck then you should probably go through some kind of medieval public humiliation ritual and perform some kind of act of atonement. That’s the stuff that drives me up the wall.

 

[sampollock]

he is coming around. good to see
maybe he is more confident now of the surgery he had