Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[tooji]

53 point pace now.

Don't need to label a #1? Aren't you tired of being a losing team without a defined number one center? We're losers, have been for almost 30 years.

Who's telling you to chose one or the other? The eye test shows that Dach is already superior to Suzuki.

Sample size. Suzuki is slumping and Dach is streaking. Damn recency bias is ridiculous here.

 

[Schooner Guy]

Suzuki isn't a real #1 center. That's the reason. Highly unlikely? Have you actually watched him play? He does things Suzuki will never be able to do.

We all love Suzuki but let's be real here. Dach has #1 center pedigree.

Suzuki face-off %: 48%
Dach face-off %: 35% (including 22% last night)

I'm a big fan of Dach and loved the trade but good heavens Suzuki is our #1 center.

 

[Hins77]

I have to say that Hugues had the great flair to trade with a yound GM on panic, in Chicago. He wanted to sell everything for picks and this is what happened. New GM are surround by old sharks and obviously, HuGo took advantage of it. Kirby DAch is improving every game. Big player, skating like this and now, he is stronger physically to win board battles…. Thats the kind of player we can build around, with Suzuki/Caufield

 

[JianYang]

53 point pace now.

Sample size. Suzuki is slumping and Dach is streaking. Damn recency bias is ridiculous here.

Not sure what to make of suzuki. He has a tendency to disappear for large stretches in his short career so far. I'm not sure if his play in the last 20 games or so is an extension of that, or whether he's just been trying to play through a nagging injury.

Either way, I'm glad to have him on board because he's already shown that he's at his best when the stage is bigger. I'd rather have that than the other way around.

 

[tooji]

Not sure what to make of suzuki. He has a tendency to disappear for large stretches in his short career so far. I'm not sure if his play in the last 20 games or so is an extension of that, or whether he's just been trying to play through a nagging injury.

Either way, I'm glad to have him on board because he's already shown that he's at his best when the stage is bigger. I'd rather have that than the other way around.

I suspect that he is having growing pains playing 20+ minutes a night against other team’s top lines. He looks fatigued more than anything else, with potentially a nagging injury. Probably feels pressure to play through it as the team’s captain.

 

[417]

Don't need to label a #1? Aren't you tired of being a losing team without a defined number one center? We're losers, have been for almost 30 years.

I'm not sure what identifying who is #1 or #2 has to do with being tired of a losing team.

If Dach turns out superior to Suzuki...great.

Either way.

Who's telling you to chose one or the other? The eye test shows that Dach is already superior to Suzuki.

I was just saying, it's not important to me to determine this.

It was a self-assessment, not a criticism of your position.

 

[417]

Not sure what to make of suzuki. He has a tendency to disappear for large stretches in his short career so far. I'm not sure if his play in the last 20 games or so is an extension of that, or whether he's just been trying to play through a nagging injury.

Either way, I'm glad to have him on board because he's already shown that he's at his best when the stage is bigger. I'd rather have that than the other way around.

He's the #1 target for opposing teams every night.

When Monahan was playing things were a bit easier.

Hopefully with Dach back at C and Monahan due to return soon (I think), he can go back to looking like the Suzuki we saw for the first 30ish games.

P.S. - he's also raised the bar so high that we expect much more, and that's a good thing.

 

[417]

Watching Kirby Dach is "chef's kiss" though.

Crazy to think he's actually slightly younger than Cole Caufield.

This should prove as a reminder for those slandering Slafkovsky that it takes time in a lot of cases. Instant success is an anomaly, the Kirby Dach type of developmental curve IS the norm.

He's closing in on his 200th NHL game and it finally looks like things are starting to click for him. A lot of it is physical maturity (understand he came in much heavier/stronger this year than years past), mental maturity and timing (right team, right place, right time).

 

[Miller Time]

Watching Kirby Dach is "chef's kiss" though.

Crazy to think he's actually slightly younger than Cole Caufield.

This should prove as a reminder for those slandering Slafkovsky that it takes time in a lot of cases. Instant success is an anomaly, the Kirby Dach type of developmental curve IS the norm.

He's closing in on his 200th NHL game and it finally looks like things are starting to click for him. A lot of it is physical maturity (understand he came in much heavier/stronger this year than years past), mental maturity and timing (right team, right place, right time).

Bingo.

And to finally have a leadership team that gets it is so amazing...

Can't wait to see what other young players in that kind of scenario we target.

Puljujarvi... Comtois... Someone like that comes to mind

 

[417]

Bingo.

And to finally have a leadership team that gets it is so amazing...

Can't wait to see what other young players in that kind of scenario we target.

Puljujarvi... Comtois... Someone like that comes to mind

It's actually insane because the previous regime "tried" and failed for a decade trying to find either via trade or draft, this exact type of player.

Hughes came in and in his first offseason was able to accomplish what the previous regime told us was impossible to do (acquire young Cs).

 

[Andy]

It's actually insane because the previous regime "tried" and failed for a decade trying to find either via trade or draft, this exact type of player.

Hughes came in and in his first offseason was able to accomplish what the previous regime told us was impossible to do (acquire young Cs).

It's because MB was too afraid to pay the price. MB traded a 1st round pick in his final season with the habs.

Hughes traded 1st round pick in his first year with the habs.

That's the difference. It costs to get. MB never wanted to pay. He wanted it to end up on his lap for cents.

 

[417]

It's because MB was too afraid to pay the price. MB traded a 1st round pick in his final season with the habs.

Hughes traded 1st round pick in his first year with the habs.

That's the difference. It costs to get. MB never wanted to pay. He wanted it to end up on his lap for cents.

Agreed...too afraid and I don't think he would have had the vision to flip Romanov into Dach the way Hughes did.

 

[Andy]

Agreed...too afraid and I don't think he would have had the vision to flip Romanov into Dach the way Hughes did.

This is also true.

Also, other than flipping Colberg for Vanek at the deadline, I can't remember any other trade where MB moved a prospect/young player before their value completely tanked and was evident to the rest of the league (unless you want to count the awful Sergachev trade).

Hughes came in, saw a position of abundance, traded an asset of value to parlay into filling a need.

 

[417]

This is also true.

Also, other than flipping Colberg for Vanek at the deadline, I can't remember any other trade where MB moved a prospect/young player before their value completely tanked and was evident to the rest of the league (unless you want to count the awful Sergachev trade).

Hughes came in, saw a position of abundance, traded an asset of value to parlay into filling a need.

Yep...Bergevin and his staff would have been way too proud of moving Romanov considering they were convinced they stole him in the draft (which they did to their credit).

They'd had never thought to themselves...hmmm Guhle/Harris/Xhekaj AND Romanov, let's parlay this abundance of young LDs into a big RH C we've been looking for since...well forever.

 

[Redux91]

Not sure what to make of suzuki. He has a tendency to disappear for large stretches in his short career so far. I'm not sure if his play in the last 20 games or so is an extension of that, or whether he's just been trying to play through a nagging injury.

Either way, I'm glad to have him on board because he's already shown that he's at his best when the stage is bigger. I'd rather have that than the other way around.

I'm not taking anything away from Nick, and this is not a slight on him: but it's CLEAR he is "taking it easy" a bit, he just is
If people think they are wat hing a filly healthy 100% on fire Suzuki right now that just isn't the case,
He knows we probably need another great draft pick and he knows the team ain't that good, so he ain't going 110% or 100%, he's going more like 85% right now
Coupled with the RDS announcers all but confirming he is injured a bit and Dach going on a little heater and 2 decent games at C , You can see people just CRAPPing all over Suzuki
For me, he gets a pass this year, we all know he brings it when it matters most
The great news is we already know he's even better come playoff time
The sneaky great news is Dach was great in his lone playoff appearance as well at the age of 19 no less

so long story short, "Leave Suzuki alone" basically lol, this is more about the development of Dach as a top 6 force and what he can do at C, and so far so good

 

[Zilo44]

Suzuki is better than Dach right now, come on.

And Suzuki has a much better shot. Dach will have to be a significantly better playmaker to compensate

 

[JoelWarlord]

It's because MB was too afraid to pay the price. That's the difference. It costs to get. MB never wanted to pay. He wanted it to end up on his lap for cents.

Agreed...too afraid and I don't think he would have had the vision to flip Romanov into Dach the way Hughes did.

Absolutely. The team went years without fixing major roster holes because everything had to be a bargain. Burned through Price/Subban/Pacioretty's entire primes with David Desharnais at 1C. No way he would have been willing to make this series of moves, he would have tried to deal a 4th for Henrik Borgstrom instead and then traded Romanov for a 3rd four years from now.

It really is hilarious that they managed to turn Romanov and a few throw-ins into Dach. Chicago giving up on a 6'4 right shot C that can skate like he can at age 21...just baffling stuff.

EDIT: The other thing is that even if Bergevin identified the Romanov > 13OA > Dach situation he would have been completely unwilling to throw in the extra 3rd and 4th that got it over the line. He needed to "win" ever trade.

 

[SlafySZN]

I'm not taking anything away from Nick, and this is not a slight on him: but it's CLEAR he is "taking it easy" a bit, he just is
If people think they are wat hing a filly healthy 100% on fire Suzuki right now that just isn't the case,
He knows we probably need another great draft pick and he knows the team ain't that good, so he ain't going 110% or 100%, he's going more like 85% right now
Coupled with the RDS announcers all but confirming he is injured a bit and Dach going on a little heater and 2 decent games at C , You can see people just CRAPPing all over Suzuki
For me, he gets a pass this year, we all know he brings it when it matters most
The great news is we already know he's even better come playoff time
The sneaky great news is Dach was great in his lone playoff appearance as well at the age of 19 no less

so long story short, "Leave Suzuki alone" basically lol, this is more about the development of Dach as a top 6 force and what he can do at C, and so far so good

I don’t think anyone is crapping all over Suzuki. He is a great player, yes he probably has some small injury right now. But even when healthy, you would prefer him to be your #2 center, which is totally fine. We need a dominant #1 offensive center, Suzuki would do his thing just fine on a 2nd line, way better than he is now.

Not saying Dach should be #1 now, because they roughly gets the same playing time and it doesn’t really matter who’s #1 or #2 anyway, the only difference is Dach has to play with Hoffman and Anderson lol. But if Dach can become a #1 great, and also great if the #1 is a kid we draft this summer.

 

[Redux91]

I don’t think anyone is crapping all over Suzuki. He is a great player, yes he probably has some small injury right now. But even when healthy, you would prefer him to be your #2 center, which is totally fine. We need a dominant #1 offensive center, Suzuki would do his thing just fine on a 2nd line, way better than he is now.

Not saying Dach should be #1 now, because they roughly gets the same playing time and it doesn’t really matter who’s #1 or #2 anyway, the only difference is Dach has to play with Hoffman and Anderson lol. But if Dach can become a #1 great, and also great if the #1 is a kid we draft this summer.

Sorry bud, I like ya
But I can't like the post lol

 

[SlafySZN]

Sorry bud, I like ya
But I can't like the post lol

Why?

You don’t think we need a better center in front of Suzuki?

It’s not a shot on Nick, i think he could be similar to Hischier with another center like Hughes.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

It's because MB was too afraid to pay the price. MB traded a 1st round pick in his final season with the habs.

Hughes traded 1st round pick in his first year with the habs.

That's the difference. It costs to get. MB never wanted to pay. He wanted it to end up on his lap for cents.

Hughes is also familiar with selling high. Romanov looked good for us, but Hughes knew we had an abundance of young D coming up and cashed in on Romanov in order to make the Dach deal.

Bergevin's idea of selling high was to wait for players' values to hit rock bottom before trading them for a late pick, or waiving them when they had zero value.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Why?

You don’t think we need a better center in front of Suzuki?

It’s not a shot on Nick, i think he could be similar to Hischier with another center like Hughes.

Suzuki was the top centre as a 21 year old on a team that made the finals. He has put up 71 points in his last 82 games, while being strong defensively. His point totals would be even higher if we had a half decent PP, as well as a regular winger for him and Caufield - as aside from Dach, they've been stuck with mediocre players filling out that line.

It is even more impressive what Suzuki and Caufield are doing considering our top line has next to no help offensively from our remaining lines. This results in our top line going against tougher competition every game.

A better centre than Suzuki would make us very strong down the middle, but things look very good for the future with Suzuki/Dach and potentially Beck as our centres.

I would say our biggest needs right now to be successful in future years would be a top pairing D to eat minutes with Guhle, as well as a legit #1 goalie.

 

[417]

Why?

You don’t think we need a better center in front of Suzuki?

It’s not a shot on Nick, i think he could be similar to Hischier with another center like Hughes.

I do think Suzuki needs more support and it's not going to come from Dvorak.

So whether that C ends up better then Suzuki or equal to, doesn't matter to me.

But I understand where you're coming from.

 

[Miller Time]

Suzuki was the top centre as a 21 year old on a team that made the finals. He has put up 71 points in his last 82 games, while being strong defensively. His point totals would be even higher if we had a half decent PP, as well as a regular winger for him and Caufield - as aside from Dach, they've been stuck with mediocre players filling out that line.

It is even more impressive what Suzuki and Caufield are doing considering our top line has next to no help offensively from our remaining lines. This results in our top line going against tougher competition every game.

A better centre than Suzuki would make us very strong down the middle, but things look very good for the future with Suzuki/Dach and potentially Beck as our centres.

I would say our biggest needs right now to be successful in future years would be a top pairing D to eat minutes with Guhle, as well as a legit #1 goalie.

Pretty clear at this point I'd say...

Top tier Dman & top tier goalie are two biggest needs both now and in terms of our prospect pool talent/depth.

Mailloux, Hutson, Barron et. give us some solid potential top 4 D nhlers over next 2-4 yrs, but none are locks to be top tier caliber.

Monty, Primeau & Dobbes even less likely to give us a top tier netminder in that window.

Up front, Suzuki - Dach - Beck/Kapanen could easily give us a top tier top-9 C trio over next few seasons. Don't need a McD or Crosby to cup contend with that kind of depth at C imo.

Slaf, Heineman, Mesar, Farrell, Roy, Ylonen, Touch, Rohrer.... Easily 1-2 top 6 wingers to complement the elite CC

Plus we're most likely getting at least 1 blue chip fwd out of this draft year.


Top flight G & D, that's the priority

 

[BenchBrawl]

It's because MB was too afraid to pay the price. MB traded a 1st round pick in his final season with the habs.

Hughes traded 1st round pick in his first year with the habs.

That's the difference. It costs to get. MB never wanted to pay. He wanted it to end up on his lap for cents.

"Too afraid" LOL

The Maestro traded Subban in his prime, arguably the most courageous trade in Montreal history.