Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Ozmodiar]

Dach woke up Saturday morning and said to himself, “how can I put myself in a position to not only tear my ACL, but that pesky hard to tear MCL too”.

Lawd

MCL is the most common knee injury for hockey players.

 

[417]

MCL is the most common knee injury for hockey players.

I wasn’t going for an exact medical diagnosis.

But thank you.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Not a big deal , multiple top 5 picks in the next few years , surely we draft another top 6 center maybe even a first liner! Right?..........right?!??!...

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Not a big deal , multiple top 5 picks in the next few years , surely we draft another top 6 center maybe even a first liner! Right?..........right?...

We are gonna draft some accountant with our top 5 pick

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

We are gonna draft some accountant with our top 5 pick

Maybe we should draft a doctor or a therapist

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We are gonna draft some accountant with our top 5 pick

 

[Yasuo]

I think you’re missing the point. Of course the injuries may have played a role in his trade. What does that have to do with his knee injury?

They aren’t the same. It’s not a case of a perpetually f***ed hamstring or recurrent knee injuries. You guys are making associations that simply don’t exist.

So for the goobers saying Chicago traded Dach because of his injury issues - on what planet are doctors able to determine likeliness of a torn mcl on the basis of a slash that breaks a wrist?

At first you say it like Dach could not be traded because of injuries than you switch side lol. Also who said that doctors predicted his torn acl? Some players just get injured more often than other for whatever reason and Dach is one of these like it or not.

 

[Andy]

That was my point. Also who said that doctors predicted his torn acl? Some players just get injured more often than other for whatever reason and Dach is one of these like it or not.

And this "some players get injured more than others" is based on what? A feeling? Hindsight? Science?

I literally heard of no one claiming Dach was injury prone on this board before this injury. People were concerned about his wrist healing, and that's about it.

Now people want to use hindsight to develop some conspiracy that the Hawks knew Dach was made of glass and that's why they dumped a promising young foward, when in reality, they, like many on this board, thought Dach wasn't going to put everything together and cashed out in a period in which they are doing a scorched earth rebuild.

The issue here is that many posters see the world through a "management is incompetent lens" and then fit the facts the keep that worldview whole.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Not a big deal , multiple top 5 picks in the next few years , surely we draft another top 6 center maybe even a first liner! Right?..........right?!??!...

All of a sudden, the center position becomes a priority at the draft.

 

[bcv]

WS, how can you not see how ridiculous that is tho..
How can anyone predict freak ACL tears.. if you had the answer
The NFL would make you a rich rich RICH man..
You're insinuating a sports team monitored the Knee ligaments of their players somehow and deemed, somehow amazingly, that Dachs tendons on their magic Xrays showed that his were deemed ripe for a tear in the not so distant future.. and so they must trade him .. like..what??

Remember when WS was ready to die on the hill that it was the Habs' fault when Barron got an ankle injury the year he got traded to the Habs? I do.

I'm not surprised he's hell bent on this issue also.

 

[Yasuo]

And this "some players get injured more than others" is based on what? A feeling? Hindsight? Science?

I literally heard of no one claiming Dach was injury prone on this board before this injury. People were concerned about his wrist healing, and that's about it.

Now people want to use hindsight to develop some conspiracy that the Hawks knew Dach was made of glass and that's why they dumped a promising young foward, when in reality, they, like many on this board, thought Dach wasn't going to put everything together and cashed out in a period in which they are doing a scorched earth rebuild.

The issue here is that many posters see the world through a "management is incompetent lens" and then fit the facts the keep that worldview whole.

Since 2019:
Concussion
Wrist injury
Right shoulder
Lower-body injury (never precised)
Concussion
Knee injury

Thats the data we are working with. You can say bad luck all you want. Could be his playstyle i dont know but thats a lot for a young player since 2019.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The darkest day in Canadiens' history

Our 9/11

 

[Habs Halifax]

All of a sudden, the center position becomes a priority at the draft.

It should always be a priority. Centers can play wing but wingers can't play center. Having too many centers is a good thing

Since 2019:
Concussion
Wrist injury
Right shoulder
Lower-body injury (never precised)
Concussion
Knee injury

Thats the data we are working with. You can say bad luck all you want. Could be his playstyle i dont know but thats a lot for a young player since 2019.

Why wasn't anybody talking about all this before this latest injury? We like to dig into context like this and we do cover a lot of angles most of the time for all of our players.

Why are the injury experts only bringing it up now? Prior to this, the talk was about his wrist injury and us hoping he can improve strength and his shot power. I don't recall hearing too much talk (if any) on all the other injuries.

Mackinnon's injury history:

DATE	INJURY
12/5/22	Upper-Body
3/29/22	Undisclosed
2/23/22	Lower-body
1/27/22	Face/Concussion
11/6/21	Lower-body
10/12/21	Health Protocols
5/8/21	Lower Body
5/7/21	Lower body
3/5/21	Upper Body
2/2/21	Lower Body
7/24/20	Undisclosed
3/9/20	Lower Body
11/7/19	Upper Body
10/18/19	Lower body
1/31/18	Upper-body injury
1/30/18	Upper-body injury

 

[bcv]

Since 2019:
Concussion
Wrist injury
Right shoulder
Lower-body injury (never precised)
Concussion
Knee injury

Thats the data we are working with. You can say bad luck all you want. Could be his playstyle i dont know but thats a lot for a young player since 2019.

That looks really scary.. then you realize it's one broken wrist (and he played 70 games the year following the surgery) and that it was an infection, not an injury, that took him out last year.

There's no denying he's missing games, and that is most definitely a negative, but he's really had 1 major injury before this alleged ACL+MCL tear. Most players across the league will miss a few games here and there. It's a physical sports, it's bound to happen.

 

[Andy]

Since 2019:
Concussion
Wrist injury
Right shoulder
Lower-body injury (never precised)
Concussion
Knee injury

Thats the data we are working with. You can say bad luck all you want. Could be his playstyle i dont know but thats a lot for a young player since 2019.

Ugh, this is dishonest.

With the Hawks:

-Concussion. Day-to-Day. He missed 2 weeks.
-Freak wrist injury. Missed a huge chunk of time.
-Shoulder injury, originally listed day-today. Only a few weeks until the end of the season. Then was listed "out for season" when the season was pretty much done.


What about this indicated "injury prone"?

 

[themilosh]

The ONLY thing I said before the outrage machine started kicking was that it was possible that the Hawks knew something we didn't. That's the ONLY thing.

What I want? The possiblity on a hockey forum to say that. Too much to ask?

[mod]

That is not only a possibility, but a probability... and also represents just how weak our scouting departments (pro and amateur) are. Scouting is not just about the "severity" of his injuries and whether he will heal, but rather a distinct understanding of the player and his style of play which obviously leaves him open to serious injuries.

I've noticed the same with Slaf too. This is not about their skill, or size, or personality... Big kids have difficulty learning how to protect themselves while playing youth, as they're never tested. By the time they reach pros, that little bump from a junior where nothing happens suddenly becomes a serious injury against powerful men.

I have a theory that the optimal height-weight ratio for the current NHL is 6'1" 200lbs. +/- in either direction is proportionally less advantageous.

 

[malton]

Ugh, this is dishonest.

With the Hawks:

-Concussion. Day-to-Day. He missed 2 weeks.
-Freak wrist injury. Missed a huge chunk of time.
-Shoulder injury, originally listed day-today. Only a few weeks until the end of the season. Then was listed "out for season" when the season was pretty much done.


What about this indicated "injury prone"?

Nothing.

Remember Markov was starting to get labelled as "Injury Prone". Then he played 4 straight full seasons after he was done.

Unless it's a nagging reoccurring injury it's all just mindless chatter.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

This board is sad, so many hot takes about injuries lately. Worse is that some people believe what they wrote here.

 

[GrandBison]

We are gonna draft some accountant with our top 5 pick

Or a can't miss perfect third liner like Chipchura.

 

[HuGort]

Ugh, this is dishonest.

With the Hawks:

-Concussion. Day-to-Day. He missed 2 weeks.
-Freak wrist injury. Missed a huge chunk of time.
-Shoulder injury, originally listed day-today. Only a few weeks until the end of the season. Then was listed "out for season" when the season was pretty much done.


What about this indicated "injury prone"?

Hawks took our rookie GM to school on this trade.

 

[ReHabs]

Hawks took our rookie GM to school on this trade.

Just as Sakic did on the Lehkonen trade and Yzerman did on the Petry (2) trade

Growing pains.

 

[morhilane]

This board is sad, so many hot takes about injuries lately. Worse is that some people believe what they wrote here.

Fans are getting frustrated with good players getting long term injuries years after years on the Habs.

 

[Ozmodiar]

It should always be a priority. Centers can play wing but wingers can't play center. Having too many centers is a good thing

Like defense should always be a priority? Having too many D is a good thing.

 

[admiralcadillac]

At first you say it like Dach could not be traded because of injuries than you switch side lol. Also who said that doctors predicted his torn acl? Some players just get injured more often than other for whatever reason and Dach is one of these like it or not.

I think it’s very easy to be able to parse the difference between having lower value due to previous injuries, on the one hand, and the predictability of entirely separate injuries moving forward on the other.

If he had lower value, he didn’t have lower value because the Hawks predicted he’d get completely unrelated serious injuries later on, he had lower value because they weren’t able to gauge the potential he had due to a wrist injury, potential he was developing here.

This seems so basic to me.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Remember Markov was starting to get labelled as "Injury Prone". Then he played 4 straight full seasons after he was done.

Some people kept saying he had a “bum leg” right up until he left. lol