Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

[frontsfan67]

Brantford is building for next year. They won’t sell off because the players they have of value are returning. If they buy, they will buy two year players.

I could see them selling Lardis and that’s it as he won’t be back next year obviously

 

[Oggie Ogoltorp]

I don't think it would be wise for Brantford or Kingston to try to make a big splash with the East lineups in Brampton, Oshawa and Barrie that are already in place and guessing none of them are likely done.
If I'm Brantford and Kingston I'm building around the 06/07 groups. Moving a Lardis or Guindon at deadline should get them each a nice haul back to continue the build.
The west is a one maybe two horse race. London is stacked and will add and how do you count out Saginaw with Misa and Parekh and a decent supporting cast. If I'm Erie I'm staying the course and building around their 06/07s as well. Windsor should focus on their 07/08's.
We have already seen teams possibly overpaying for top vets so I'd be very careful trying to buy If I'm not one of those teams listed.

 

[leafs4life94]

Weir out, Clark in at 4LW, Pickell up to 3LW and Buttar to 4C with Kelly sliding over to 4RW.

Same D as Friday with Lalonde in net.

First time all year with a forward shakeup, will be curious to see how Clark does, main thing I think I remember from the training camp scrimmages was a pretty heavy shot.

 

[leafs4life94]

Missed another change on the lines - Heyes up to line 1 with Uronen. With how feisty Uronen has shown to be that third line doesn't seem like it'll be fun to play against.

 

[frontsfan67]

Weir out, Clark in at 4LW, Pickell up to 3LW and Buttar to 4C with Kelly sliding over to 4RW.

Same D as Friday with Lalonde in net.

First time all year with a forward shakeup, will be curious to see how Clark does, main thing I think I remember from the training camp scrimmages was a pretty heavy shot.

Wonder what they do with weir. Perhaps a trading chip? I can’t imagine weir wants to go back to the GOJHL but he’s seemingly not ready yet.

Missed another change on the lines - Heyes up to line 1 with Uronen. With how feisty Uronen has shown to be that third line doesn't seem like it'll be fun to play against.

Heyes line 1 uronen line 3 tonight

Glad they’re giving Heyes some fair minutes in order to prove to other teams he has what it takes to be an OA

 

[Oggie Ogoltorp]

If I'm Weir I'm asking for a move if they wont give him legitimate mins. I prefer a model of 2 strong lines, a 3rd line of your top kids and a 4th line your heart and soul guys. That way teams are always developing within. Then you add a piece here and there. Playing a second year 1st or 2nd round guy on a 4th line doesn't make sense for development with the way most coaches utilize their 4th lines. Playing a 1st year 1st rounder on 4th makes even less sense. If they aren't ready have them play OJ, Prep or U18 for a year like London does. Kingston doesn't seem to know what they are and you cant have a fairly highly picked 07 not playing significant minutes in his draft year. Its not fair to the kid. Give him a legit chance to show what he can do if it doesnt work out move on. Maybe find another kid in a similar situation on another team who may need a change of scenery or move him for some picks. This was a high end kid growing up and is still an asset. The longer he goes without playing significant minutes the quicker his value drops. Its tough when you miss on a 2nd rounder, disastrous when you miss on a 1st but they have to be given an opportunity. 4-5 shifts a game isnt an opportunity - get his confidence going and assess.

 

[frontsfan67]

If I'm Weir I'm asking for a move if they wont give him legitimate mins. I prefer a model of 2 strong lines, a 3rd line of your top kids and a 4th line your heart and soul guys. That way teams are always developing within. Then you add a piece here and there. Playing a second year 1st or 2nd round guy on a 4th line doesn't make sense for development with the way most coaches utilize their 4th lines. Playing a 1st year 1st rounder on 4th makes even less sense. If they aren't ready have them play OJ, Prep or U18 for a year like London does. Kingston doesn't seem to know what they are and you cant have a fairly highly picked 07 not playing significant minutes in his draft year. It’s not fair to the kid. Give him a legit chance to show what he can do if it doesnt work out move on. Maybe find another kid in a similar situation on another team who may need a change of scenery or move him for some picks. This was a high end kid growing up and is still an asset. The longer he goes without playing significant minutes the quicker his value drops. Its tough when you miss on a 2nd rounder, disastrous when you miss on a 1st but they have to be given an opportunity. 4-5 shifts a game isnt an opportunity - get his confidence going and assess.

Definitely worries me for next year when they have zero first round picks. They gonna limit those guys minutes too?

 

[leafs4life94]

That was one of the worst reffed games I've seen in a long time. Several missed calls and that Miedema penalty at the end was questionable because the guy was on his way down when Miedema started the hit.

I do think with Lalonde in the net that might be a win but Leenders had a couple unreal saves that were the difference.

 

[beastintheeast]

So do people here still think this is the year to put all your chips in and go for it.

Frankly I would give miedema and uronen a chance to shine then trade them

 

[dirty12]

So do people here still think this is the year to put all your chips in and go for it.

Frankly I would give miedema and uronen a chance to shine then trade them

Going to fan the flames when the Frontenacs lose a game giving up only 19 SOG to a good Brantford team?
I assume yes; and, I guess you’d have something negative to say if Kingston acquired Musty and McCoy.

 

[frontsfan67]

So do people here still think this is the year to put all your chips in and go for it.

Frankly I would give miedema and uronen a chance to shine then trade them

Who said that? Lately everybody’s on the same page here- not the right year for it.

Uronen has 10pts in 7 games he’s been doing great with his chances. not sure if you have been watching the fronts but he’s been one of their best players.

trade burns, miedema at the deadline imo and keep the rest. Unless someone puts up a really good package for uronen keep him. Keep Pieniniemi if losing burns. Otherwise d will fall completely apart.

 

[ScoutLife4]

So do people here still think this is the year to put all your chips in and go for it.

Frankly I would give miedema and uronen a chance to shine then trade them

Do you ever watch the games you critique? Just curious.

Who said that? Lately everybody’s on the same page here- not the right year for it.

Uronen has 10pts in 7 games he’s been doing great with his chances. not sure if you have been watching the fronts but he’s been one of their best players.

trade burns, miedema at the deadline imo and keep the rest. Unless someone puts up a really good package for uronen keep him. Keep Pieniniemi if losing burns. Otherwise d will fall completely apart.

This trade for Uronen was a great value trade. + Ottawa didn't lose him for nothing as he was never going back.
Ottawa did him a solid moving him fairly cheap to play with his best friend Emil.

 

[beastintheeast]

Who said that? Lately everybody’s on the same page here- not the right year for it.

Uronen has 10pts in 7 games he’s been doing great with his chances. not sure if you have been watching the fronts but he’s been one of their best players.

trade burns, miedema at the deadline imo and keep the rest. Unless someone puts up a really good package for uronen keep him. Keep Pieniniemi if losing burns. Otherwise d will fall completely apart.

I think that's the plan. As t whether you trade pieninemi or burns I think that will come down to the package offered. Same with uronen miedema is definitely. Trade bait

Depending on the draft you could have a great team next year.

 

[OMG67]

It feels like the fans are a bit on a roller coaster here.

Kingston is a good team. They will compete this year.

Kingston is also a franchise that suffers from a diminished reputation. They not only need to compete this eyar but they need to continue to rebuild or build a stronger reputation. To do that, they need to remain competitive. All this talk about selling Miedema etc is not productive. IT would be better for th efforts to remain competitive, work on developing the young kids while being competitive and statrt being a place players choose to play instead of being the place they begrudgingly go to play.

Don’t worry about winning a Championship. Finish the next five years with a .550 win%, win a round in the playoffs 3 of those 5 years and allow the coach and management staff to entrench themselves in the OHL as being competent.

If/when a bonafide opportunity comes along where it seems prudent to empty the cupboard and make a serious run, do it.

 

[frontsfan67]

It feels like the fans are a bit on a roller coaster here.

Kingston is a good team. They will compete this year.

Kingston is also a franchise that suffers from a diminished reputation. They not only need to compete this eyar but they need to continue to rebuild or build a stronger reputation. To do that, they need to remain competitive. All this talk about selling Miedema etc is not productive. IT would be better for th efforts to remain competitive, work on developing the young kids while being competitive and statrt being a place players choose to play instead of being the place they begrudgingly go to play.

That’s the thing. Trading Miedema would open up a spot in the top 6 this year and next moving players up from the top 9 and he needs to be moved next year anyways. May as well do it when he’s 19 and add conditionals for him coming back next year as I don’t think he gets signed unless he gets traded to another team and gets more responsibility leading to him getting some points. Quite clearly he needs a change in scenery. He’s arguably the 6th or 7th best forward on the team this year and hasn’t progressed AT ALL since coming here from Windsor.

They have Buttar, Kelly, McQuaig, Weir, potentially Shewfelt, and 1 of their first round picks next year (I assume they draft 1F, 1D unless there’s a Jack Ivankovic type goalie that can go first round) for their 4-12 guys assuming none start on the first.

Buttar being a second round pick this year may take a big leap who knows and be able to play top 6 from the get go. No point in holding onto 5 OA’s to start the year especially after Miedema apparently isn’t super fond of kingston.

Next year the fronts have McGowan, Uens, McNamara, Soto and Miedema as OA’s I think they should keep McGowan, McNamara and Soto as the 3 to start the year and trade 2 by next years deadline. Trade Uens in the summer if you can, miedema at this years deadline.

Don’t worry about winning a Championship. Finish the next five years with a .550 win%, win a round in the playoffs 3 of those 5 years and allow the coach and management staff to entrench themselves in the OHL as being competent.

What would this do?? They have mann for 3 or 4 more years you think they’d be better off just winning the first round a few times? That’s ridiculous if Mann doesn’t go on a run here AT SOME POINT he may not get another coaching job in the AHL. Can bet the house he will absolutely be pushing atleast one of those years.

 

[OMG67]

That’s the thing. Trading Miedema would open up a spot in the top 6 this year and next moving players up from the top 9 and he needs to be moved next year anyways. May as well do it when he’s 19 and add conditionals for him coming back next year as I don’t think he gets signed unless he gets traded to another team and gets more responsibility leading to him getting some points. Quite clearly he needs a change in scenery. He’s arguably the 6th or 7th best forward on the team this year and hasn’t progressed AT ALL since coming here from Windsor.

They have Buttar, Kelly, McQuaig, Weir, potentially Shewfelt, and 1 of their first round picks next year (I assume they draft 1F, 1D unless there’s a Jack Ivankovic type goalie that can go first round) for their 4-12 guys assuming none start on the first.

Buttar being a second round pick this year may take a big leap who knows and be able to play top 6 from the get go. No point in holding onto 5 OA’s to start the year especially after Miedema apparently isn’t super fond of kingston.

Next year the fronts have McGowan, Uens, McNamara, Soto and Miedema as OA’s I think they should keep McGowan, McNamara and Soto as the 3 to start the year and trade 2 by next years deadline. Trade Uens in the summer if you can, miedema at this years deadline.

What would this do?? They have mann for 3 or 4 more years you think they’d be better off just winning the first round a few times? That’s ridiculous if Mann doesn’t go on a run here AT SOME POINT he may not get another coaching job in the AHL. Can bet the house he will absolutely be pushing atleast one of those years.

Kingston needs stability not volatility.

Any team can sell shit for three years, pick in the top four, build draft picks and then trade them all one year and make a run. Any clown can do that. The challenge is to maintain stability, competitiveness, and build a positive reputation as a class organization. When you do that, you recruit easier and attract better people to your organization.

You are acting as if there is not a reputation problem or there is one and it doesn’t matter. That is the wrong mindset. Build a strong foundation first. Then build on the foundation. Trying to build a mansion in the middle of a bog doesn’t usually work out well.

 

[frontsfan67]

Kingston needs stability not volatility.

Any team can sell shit for three years, pick in the top four, build draft picks and then trade them all one year and make a run. Any clown can do that. The challenge is to maintain stability, competitiveness, and build a positive reputation as a class organization. When you do that, you recruit easier and attract better people to your organization.

You are acting as if there is not a reputation problem or there is one and it doesn’t matter. That is the wrong mindset. Build a strong foundation first. Then build on the foundation. Trying to build a mansion in the middle of a bog doesn’t usually work out well.

I think there is a reputation problem. I also think there’s a fan problem.

Believe they went 17 years without going to the second round for stuff exactly like this. And they lost a bunch because of it.

They’d be better off missing here and there like every other team not named London. Wanting to make the playoffs no matter what… what is the point of that? You’re just wasting peoples time and 3-5 good runs of playoff hockey and 3-5 good championship aspiration teams based off building for every 3-5 years like many teams do just so your casual fans can attend 2-4 more games in a year.

What Kingston needs is a consistent plan of okay we’re going for it every 3 years, 4 years, 5 years etc and communicating these plans to the fans to get them more engaged. People in kingston never bother with the fronts because they for the most part are run like a circus. If we could keep mann long term it would change the culture completely of the fronts however they’re not as lucky as some other teams getting top tier coaches.

The players try to play for championships, not the first or second round.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Kingston's record doesn't really describe how well they have played so far in my opinion.

They have been competitive in every game losing 2 of 3 by only 1 goal and the Niagara game was just an unfortunate last 5 minutes with 2 empty netters.

They are 2nd best in the league right now with goals against, So we can't really go to hard on the need for a defensive upgrade.
Goaltending has also been a pleasant surprise so far.
PP is third in the league.
PK is 4th in the league.

I know a lot of people have been acting like the sky is falling because Oshawa, Barrie and Brampton have made big moves but Kingston missing out on a few players and taking a wait and see approach may be a blessing in disguise.

 

[OMG67]

Kingston's record doesn't really describe how well they have played so far in my opinion.

They have been competitive in every game losing 2 of 3 by only 1 goal and the Niagara game was just an unfortunate last 5 minutes with 2 empty netters.

They are 2nd best in the league right now with goals against, So we can't really go to hard on the need for a defensive upgrade.
Goaltending has also been a pleasant surprise so far.
PP is third in the league.
PK is 4th in the league.

I know a lot of people have been acting like the sky is falling because Oshawa, Barrie and Brampton have made big moves but Kingston missing out on a few players and taking a wait and see approach may be a blessing in disguise.

100%. Identify what players can and will step up and then fill the holes left over. Be patient and be rewarded.

Kingston has a good team. LEt the players there now gel and become a unit. Then add a couple pieces if the time and price is right.

 

[leafs4life94]

Clark in for Weir again, D stays the same.

Interestingly, Betts is backing up Lalonde - no idea if Vaccari's hurt or they're just looking to give Betts some time with the Fronts.

I wonder what their plan is with Weir - from what I saw on Saturday he was up in the box with the scratches which probably doesn't do him much good as opposed to a icetime in Jr B

Edit - Vaccari out sick from the Fronts FB post

 

[frontsfan67]

Should be a hard weekend for the fronts.

Lost games to Brantford and Niagara already this year(but outplayed both) and then Erie is supposed to be a top 2 or 3 team in the west this year. Hoping they can go 2-1 or 3-0 but I don’t like the odds of that.

Going to predict they lose tonight 3-2 and win the next 2 games.

Also I assume Betts gets the Brantford start, then Lalonde can rest for a day before coming back vs the IceDogs

 

[frontsfan67]

Holding the stick called in overtime by the far side official. Absolutely BRUTAL call.

Was a great game otherwise. Lalonde played well.

 

[beastintheeast]

Weir is a rookie so you have to give him some room to grow. Also you have 3 RW that can play better than him

 

[frontsfan67]

Weir is a rookie so you have to give him some room to grow. Also you have 3 RW that can play better than him

Beast we know this. On another team he would be playing more and probably would’ve developed a bit better so far.

Thing is: Kelly is probably better right now and he’s a year younger with the late birth date. That’s the guy he is competing for this year imo. Both wingers, both young. I would be shocked if weir is still on the team after the deadline. He looked way better last year in the games he played than this year IMO.

Buttar is a second round winger that they got this past draft and they tried him at centre I believe yesterday, also saw him on with Battaglia last night for a shift)

Clark is just a filler. May not be on the team next year unless he really impresses- he is 18.

Weir has no chance of playing with guys like uronen, Soto and Heyes on the right side. Heyes won’t be here the full year I’d assume but that means Kelly may move up a spot and weir will only be on the 4th line if that happens. If he hasn’t requested a trade yet- I’m sure he will soon enough.

 

[leafs4life94]

Beast we know this. On another team he would be playing more and probably would’ve developed a bit better so far.

Thing is: Kelly is probably better right now and he’s a year younger with the late birth date. That’s the guy he is competing for this year imo. Both wingers, both young. I would be shocked if weir is still on the team after the deadline. He looked way better last year in the games he played than this year IMO.

Buttar is a second round winger that they got this past draft and they tried him at centre I believe yesterday, also saw him on with Battaglia last night for a shift)

Clark is just a filler. May not be on the team next year unless he really impresses- he is 18.

Weir has no chance of playing with guys like uronen, Soto and Heyes on the right side. Heyes won’t be here the full year I’d assume but that means Kelly may move up a spot and weir will only be on the 4th line if that happens. If he hasn’t requested a trade yet- I’m sure he will soon enough.

I don't want to pile on what I've said before but I'm struggling with the idea that Weir is an OHLer at all. The fact they haven't sent him down and are just scratching him I think is somewhat damning for his future - if it really was about development I would've expected him to get some games down in the GOJHL. It's possible they do that after this road trip (bring him along as a body in case there's injuries), but I'm not overly confident.

Strictly based on numbers I think we do see Clark on the team next year. They'll have a tough decision about what to do with the '05s but assuming they don't use all 3 OA spots on forwards next year they'll be losing at least 4-5 forwards over the summer. Clark has done pretty much what's been expected of him on the 4th line and I've noticed him more than Buttar or Kelly (somewhat expected since he's 2 years older).

With how steady they've been defensively I'm wondering if the inevitable Heyes upgrade returns another winger (Swick/Stonehouse?) and they just look for a bottom 4 '05 D if they don't think Velliaris is up to snuff.

That'd give them 3 solid forward lines, and if the D and goalies can keep up with how they've done so far they'd be in decent shape - maybe not the star power of some of the other East teams but probably more depth.