Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[ScoutLife4]

Agreed. And they have the picks to do that.

The challenge is that only fills the gaps to make a viable contending roster. It doesn’t address the “over the top” type additions other teams may make on top of having the viable roster. Also, as mentioned, they likely can’t have average goaltending contending with teams that have top tier goaltending.

Goaltending is a funny issue. Goalies can crawl out of the woodwork or fall off on a yearly basis. So, I wouldn’t say any particular goalie is 100% a dud. However, I do think we can apply a percentage chance on whether a goalie is poised to make a jump forward. I’m not sure either of Vaccari or Lalonde will make that jump forward. Neither are bad. Just average.

Kingston has the luxury of having two replacement level goalies so if one gets injured, they can lean on the other. That is very advantageous compared to some of the competitors but you cannot rely on competitor injuries to contend.

I am curious to see what Kingston will be capable of doing on the trade front and whether one of the two goalies can get on a heater early.

So much can happen during the season.
Brantford, barrie or brampton having a goalie go down with long term injury would set them way back.
I'm still not sold on Barrie's back end either - they are going to need to rely on Hilly heavily as its not really any better then Kingstons at this point. Will they go from 8th to a top team by adding just an OA dman and Gardiner but giving up Brauti? -I'm not so sure.

I feel like most of us would agree its likely a 3 way horse race with 2 trailing in the East.
Brampton, Oshawa, Brantford
With Barrie and Kingston looking up at them.
then everyone else.

after writing this i remembered Barrie also got Hemming. Maybe he will be the difference maker? -It still doesn't help the back end though.

 

[OMG67]

So much can happen during the season.
Brantford, barrie or brampton having a goalie go down with long term injury would set them way back.
I'm still not sold on Barrie's back end either - they are going to need to rely on Hilly heavily as its not really any better then Kingstons at this point. Will they go from 8th to a top team by adding just an OA dman and Gardiner but giving up Brauti? -I'm not so sure.

I feel like most of us would agree its likely a 3 way horse race with 2 trailing in the East.
Brampton, Oshawa, Brantford
With Barrie and Kingston looking up at them.
then everyone else.

after writing this i remembered Barrie also got Hemming. Maybe he will be the difference maker? -It still doesn't help the back end though.

Barrie added Bertucci and they get Akey back from missing pretty much the entire season last year.

Akey, Bertucci, and Aitchison is a pretty solid top 3. On top of that, if you believe the rumours, they would end up with Eliasson from Niagara as well. There seems to be some rumblings about that happening dependent on where Eliasson gets reassigned.

Passmore and Tiller are a pretty decent 3rd pairing.

I think if Eliasson ends up in Barrie as rumoured, they may have the strongest back end in the entire league.

They are also super strong down the middle at centre (Jelsma/Beaudoin/Gardiner). It will more come down to whether they can acquire a strong goal scoring winger to anchor the first line.

If they end up with Eliasson and can acquire an elite goal scoring winger plus a depth scoring winger, they will be set and I think they are likely the team to beat. That is mostly dependent on Oshawa and what they do. I think Oshawa likely has the inside track with their size.

Rolling back to Kingston, their issue is they need as many as three teams to get into injury trouble to be the leader of the pack. That is a tall order. I could see a situation where one of those three teams has inopportune timing for injuries and it holds them back but not all three.

 

[dirty12]

Harding is quite a bit better than many realize, I believe; but Brampton is currently a distant second best D in the conference to Barrie right now.

Cam Allen if made available, would imo make the Kingston defence second best in the conference; until, Brampton or Sudbury added Andonovski.
Brantford and Oshawa (after Barlow trade) would need to add two defencemen.

Erie would be the other team most interested in Allen, I think.

 

[frontsfan67]

Barrie added Bertucci and they get Akey back from missing pretty much the entire season last year.

Akey, Bertucci, and Aitchison is a pretty solid top 3. On top of that, if you believe the rumours, they would end up with Eliasson from Niagara as well. There seems to be some rumblings about that happening dependent on where Eliasson gets reassigned.

Passmore and Tiller are a pretty decent 3rd pairing.

I think if Eliasson ends up in Barrie as rumoured, they may have the strongest back end in the entire league.

Completely agree. That’s why I put them higher than other people.

They are also super strong down the middle at centre (Jelsma/Beaudoin/Gardiner). It will more come down to whether they can acquire a strong goal scoring winger to anchor the first line.

Shocking to me that jelsma is back. Did not anticipate that happening. They have 2 real good defensive minded centre and another one that is fast and skilled for the third line in gardiner. Very well set up there.

If they end up with Eliasson and can acquire an elite goal scoring winger plus a depth scoring winger, they will be set and I think they are likely the team to beat. That is mostly dependent on Oshawa and what they do. I think Oshawa likely has the inside track with their size.

I agree. And Oshawas experience of going to the OHL finals helps too.

Rolling back to Kingston, their issue is they need as many as three teams to get into injury trouble to be the leader of the pack. That is a tall order. I could see a situation where one of those three teams has inopportune timing for injuries and it holds them back but not all three.

I don’t think there’s a large gap that separates them from Barrie, Brampton or Oshawa right now but yeah I agree they need to do some adding if they want to be above those guys

 

[frontsfan67]

Cam Allen if made available, would imo make the Kingston defence second best in the conference; until, Brampton or Sudbury added Andonovski.

Why wouldn’t kingston be in on him? Gibson also is another player to watch

Brantford and Oshawa (after Barlow trade) would need to add two defencemen.

Kingston needs a whole new second pair
They will fill that 3rd OA spot with the best available so whether that’s wakely, Allard, Abraham (Centres) or guys like Deangelis, J Leblanc, McCoy if made available (D) or wingers like Swick, Van Steensel. Or if ludwinski comes back they save some picks there and can buy more 19 year old defencemen for sure like Andonovski, Gibson, Allen if made available

 

[dirty12]

Why wouldn’t kingston be in on him? Gibson also is another player to watch

Kingston needs a whole new second pair
They will fill that 3rd OA spot with the best available so whether that’s wakely, Allard, Abraham (Centres) or guys like Deangelis, J Leblanc, McCoy if made available (D) or wingers like Swick, Van Steensel. Or if ludwinski comes back they save some picks there and can buy more 19 year old defencemen for sure like Andonovski, Gibson, Allen if made available

Not sure I understand completely. I did suggest Allen for Kingston, but not Andonovski because of the price and he would make four LD in the top four; just like I would not consider Gibson for Oshawa.
I think Allen would be considered <Gibson <Andonovksi.

I like the idea of J.LeBlanc a lot if OA goalies end up not counting.
A.Leblanc-McNamara-Battaglia would be a line to have out against other top lines.

 

[beastintheeast]

What is there to understand? The coach flat out said they are going to be a D pairing and they played the whole first pre season game as a pairing against you guys.
I'm just going by what Troy said and he seems to be wanting to roll with that plan seeing as they played the full game together.

Just because that is what he said, I still doubt his wisdom. With such a young D corps, I would have thought that playing them separately from the young guys would give the young guys more confidence. It could also make the need for Defence a little less.

 

[beastintheeast]

Kingston needs to get an RD, but again, I think they have to wait until they get everyone back and see how things work out. 2 of the guys that you were counting on for offence are gone (Thib Frasca) . It will be interesting to see how that affects the team.

But I still wonder. With the players you have returning on defence, I am not convinced that that is the number one issue vs. a first-line center.

As to using picks you have to be careful and manage expectations. If the top 3 take off then instead of trading for studs you need to fill holes.

I see the Fronts fighting for 4th home ice

 

[zaluty]

I see they now have Tomislav Brennan in the line up. Played last year in Owen Sound

 

[frontsfan67]

Kingston needs to get an RD, but again, I think they have to wait until they get everyone back and see how things work out. 2 of the guys that you were counting on for offence are gone (Thib Frasca) . It will be interesting to see how that affects the team.

Some players are poised to make a jump. McNamara, Battaglia, Hopkins are all bound to improve their numbers. They’re high on uens too- they think he can have a big breakout year. I’m not super convinced but I’d love to be wrong. Burns will have a big year. Pieniniemi will be great and may be Finlands top D man at the WJC.

I think all of this is bound to replace the production of those 2 guys (before we add more) and Guindon should have a bounce back year and hit around 60-70 points- replacing Ludwinskis production (assuming he doesn’t give us a nice surprise and come back)

But I still wonder. With the players you have returning on defence, I am not convinced that that is the number one issue vs. a first-line center.

I agree. Guindon is probably a top 10 first line centre in the league but obviously a big gap between teams like Brampton, Oshawa, Barrie, Brantford- the teams that they’re right around/chasing. They need to add a guy like wakely (if he comes back at all) if they did that I’d like their chances a lot more

As to using picks you have to be careful and manage expectations. If the top 3 take off then instead of trading for studs you need to fill holes.

I see the Fronts fighting for 4th home ice

Completely agree. Would love if they win the division with sennecke hurt, Ritchie maybe taking a while to come back with Colorado and team canada? And Barlow maybe taking a while to come back from jets and team Canada) and roobroeck may not be back- they could finish above Oshawa depending on how they do at the start here and how much Oshawa improves in the second half with these guys back.

Brantford though I think with all their guys healthy (except for vanacker) and them bound to add(and they have their first round pick player) I think they take the division even though they won’t be the best team(Oshawa will be)

My guess out of the top 5 is Barrie leads the east in points with them having a healthy team, added early and bound to add more, followed by Brampton, Brantford, Oshawa and then Kingston. However standings would look like this because the 2 division leaders are always at the top.

Barrie 1
Brantford 2
Brampton 3
Oshawa 4
Kingston 5

I see they now have Tomislav Brennan in the line up. Played last year in Owen Sound

Probably another filler just like gabe runco that’s my guess. But if he does real well he may land a spot in the bottom 6

 

[beastintheeast]

Some players are poised to make a jump. McNamara, Battaglia, Hopkins are all bound to improve their numbers. They’re high on uens too- they think he can have a big breakout year. I’m not super convinced but I’d love to be wrong. Burns will have a big year. Pieniniemi will be great and may be Finlands top D man at the WJC.

I think all of this is bound to replace the production of those 2 guys (before we add more) and Guindon should have a bounce back year and hit around 60-70 points- replacing Ludwinskis production (assuming he doesn’t give us a nice surprise and come back)

I agree. Guindon is probably a top 10 first line centre in the league but obviously a big gap between teams like Brampton, Oshawa, Barrie, Brantford- the teams that they’re right around/chasing. They need to add a guy like wakely (if he comes back at all) if they did that I’d like their chances a lot more

Completely agree. Would love if they win the division with sennecke hurt, Ritchie maybe taking a while to come back with Colorado and team canada? And Barlow maybe taking a while to come back from jets and team Canada) and roobroeck may not be back- they could finish above Oshawa depending on how they do at the start here and how much Oshawa improves in the second half with these guys back.

Brantford though I think with all their guys healthy (except for vanacker) and them bound to add(and they have their first round pick player) I think they take the division even though they won’t be the best team(Oshawa will be)

My guess out of the top 5 is Barrie leads the east in points with them having a healthy team, added early and bound to add more, followed by Brampton, Brantford, Oshawa and then Kingston. However standings would look like this because the 2 division leaders are always at the top.

Barrie 1
Brantford 2
Brampton 3
Oshawa 4
Kingston 5


Probably another filler just like gabe runco that’s my guess. But if he does real well he may land a spot in the bottom 6

LOL, I find it interesting that you talk about other teams' players staying up in the Pros and the WJC, but you talk about Pieniniemi like he will be back soon. Out of all the players you mentioned, Pie is the one player who can play in the AHL this year and not have to worry.

He is going to have something to show, and if that is the case, he may get an extended tryout with WB.

I think the rest of the players will be back but their level of compete is going to be the different,

The big catch is that to even be a pretender you have to have 2 good scoring lines.

I agree that the top 4 are those teams you listed, but I think Brampton is going for it and have the players. Oshawa I am sure has a plan in case.

I dont think that any of these teams are really worried about player X not coming back. They all have depth and a cupboard full of draft picks.

The challenge is going to be how well the new D can play. That is why I am surprised that you would put your top D on one line and not sue them to help bring the young guns along.

 

[frontsfan67]

LOL, I find it interesting that you talk about other teams' players staying up in the Pros and the WJC, but you talk about Pieniniemi like he will be back soon. Out of all the players you mentioned, Pie is the one player who can play in the AHL this year and not have to worry.

Dubas wants him on the fronts. He wouldn’t show up to Kingston and sign in Kingston if they thought he’d be playing ahl hockey this year.

The big catch is that to even be a pretender you have to have 2 good scoring lines.

Great because they will have that. Skill really starts to drop off in the 3rd line but that’s still an average line- 4th will suck

I agree that the top 4 are those teams you listed, but I think Brampton is going for it and have the players. Oshawa I am sure has a plan in case.

They’re all going for it. I just feel Oshawa assuming they get these players back and with their experience is the team to beat. A lot of people have them going to the finals vs London again as of now since they’re getting Barlow.

I dont think that any of these teams are really worried about player X not coming back. They all have depth and a cupboard full of draft picks.

It’s not just average players- these are the ones carrying their team- the ones that carried them through the playoffs- they won’t lose every game without them but playing teams like Kingston, Brampton, Brantford, Barrie, London. They may lose the majority of games against these types of teams until they have their stars back.

The challenge is going to be how well the new D can play. That is why I am surprised that you would put your top D on one line and not sue them to help bring the young guns along.

I agree they really need to get 2 quality guys for that second line. Then maybe another depth player for the 3rd d line and a #1 C
Needs some work but they have the picks to do it- and if a young player needs to get thrown in I think weir is that guy.

 

[leafs4life94]

LOL, I find it interesting that you talk about other teams' players staying up in the Pros and the WJC, but you talk about Pieniniemi like he will be back soon. Out of all the players you mentioned, Pie is the one player who can play in the AHL this year and not have to worry.

He is going to have something to show, and if that is the case, he may get an extended tryout with WB.

I think the rest of the players will be back but their level of compete is going to be the different,

The big catch is that to even be a pretender you have to have 2 good scoring lines.

I agree that the top 4 are those teams you listed, but I think Brampton is going for it and have the players. Oshawa I am sure has a plan in case.

I dont think that any of these teams are really worried about player X not coming back. They all have depth and a cupboard full of draft picks.

The challenge is going to be how well the new D can play. That is why I am surprised that you would put your top D on one line and not sue them to help bring the young guns along.

After Burns and Pieniniemi your 3/4 D would be McGowan and Uens - both are '05s as well so they wouldn't be playing with younger DMen so there's not much to learn. Having the two top D playing together lets them both play to their full potential rather than potentially having to tone it down and be aware of covering for mistakes from a weaker player.

McGowan and Uens also played together for a good chunk of last year so there's chemistry there, and having Burns play with Pieniniemi will help Pieniniemi get used to the OHL.

I think they have a solid chance at having two good scoring lines. A top 6 consisting of Battaglia-Guindon-Uronen and Miedema-Hopkins-Soto should be good for 170-180 goals - but there are a couple X-factors there.
a) How will Uronen adapt - he's still only played 11 games in the OHL
b) Will Miedema put it together - he might be the single most frustrating player I've watched because there is SO much skill there but he just doesn't seem to care. Even if he doesn't put up the points like he should, if he can play with the edge that he did in the playoffs last year in his mini feud with Leblanc that would be a massive boost.
c) Will Hopkins take the jump I expect - I don't know how crazy i'm going to sound for this one but I expect Hopkings to be over a point per game - I'm thinking something like 30G 40A.
d) Will Hopkins even be the 2C - I'm hoping that he takes enough of a jump to 100% lock-in that 2C spot so they can re-allocate the extra OA to the shore up the 2nd D pair.

 

[OHL4Life]

After Burns and Pieniniemi your 3/4 D would be McGowan and Uens - both are '05s as well so they wouldn't be playing with younger DMen so there's not much to learn. Having the two top D playing together lets them both play to their full potential rather than potentially having to tone it down and be aware of covering for mistakes from a weaker player.

McGowan and Uens also played together for a good chunk of last year so there's chemistry there, and having Burns play with Pieniniemi will help Pieniniemi get used to the OHL.

I think they have a solid chance at having two good scoring lines. A top 6 consisting of Battaglia-Guindon-Uronen and Miedema-Hopkins-Soto should be good for 170-180 goals - but there are a couple X-factors there.
a) How will Uronen adapt - he's still only played 11 games in the OHL
b) Will Miedema put it together - he might be the single most frustrating player I've watched because there is SO much skill there but he just doesn't seem to care. Even if he doesn't put up the points like he should, if he can play with the edge that he did in the playoffs last year in his mini feud with Leblanc that would be a massive boost.
c) Will Hopkins take the jump I expect - I don't know how crazy i'm going to sound for this one but I expect Hopkings to be over a point per game - I'm thinking something like 30G 40A.
d) Will Hopkins even be the 2C - I'm hoping that he takes enough of a jump to 100% lock-in that 2C spot so they can re-allocate the extra OA to the shore up the 2nd D pair.

Meidema has been the same way for years, no reason to expect change

 

[FrontalLobe]

I wouldn't expect much tonight with the somewhat skeleton crew lineup we will have. Sounds like there is likely 7 guys still at camps. Miedema should be back for tonight but hearing McGowan might be injured. The D will be really thin. What I will be looking for is who of the younger guys respond to getting the additional ice they normally wouldn't get. If you want to earn your spot in the pecking order, a night like tonight is where you need to separate yourself from the guys you are competing against for spots. Just keep it close should be the hope tonight.

 

[frontsfan67]

Really depleted lineup tonight but still some impact guys in.

Excited to see pre season hockey again after a few weeks. Excited to see Fitzgerald and how their 4 first round picks have grown this off season. Should be a good game for Hopkins playing a younger team and more of the spotlight on him tonight with many out

 

[leafs4life94]

Not able to make it again tonight but I noticed that neither McQuaig or Moore are in the lineup which to me points that they'll be starting the year in Cornwall/Haliburton, and that Kelly will start the year with the Fronts.

Also - Jakub Chromiak is playing???? I knew he was still on the roster but I figured that was just a missed update but apparently he's still considered rostered?

 

[frontsfan67]

Also - Jakub Chromiak is playing???? I knew he was still on the roster but I figured that was just a missed update but apparently he's still considered rostered?

Do they have to trade him within the first 2 weeks of the ohl regular season starting?

 

[beastintheeast]

Do they have to trade him within the first 2 weeks of the ohl regular season starting?

They have 2 weeks front eh return of their 2nd Euro returning.

 

[frontsfan67]

Good game by the fronts today

The guindon, Miedema and Heyes line was easily the best in the game.

Was impressed with velliaris and Buttar for the young guys. Oddly enough Buttar has a good game against his home city and old teammate lol(bit of sarcasm) thought Hopkins would have a good game but I was wrong- hardly noticed him.

 

[beastintheeast]

Dubas wants him on the fronts. He wouldn’t show up to Kingston and sign in Kingston if they thought he’d be playing ahl hockey this year.

My point was not so much that he would not be in Kingston at all as that they could decide, based on his trg camp, to give him some AHL games and let him go through the AHL trg camp in WB.

He has the enviable position of being Euro therefore, he can play a few in the AHL and not worry. All the signing with Kington was a backstop if he does not make the AHL team. Dubas may want him close by if he does not make the AHL.

So they can play him a few games in WB, see how he does, and then decide to send him to Kingston. I am sure that if Cooper had a guarantee that Uronen and he were coming to Kingston, Chromiak would not be there.

 

[OMG67]

I wouldn't expect much tonight with the somewhat skeleton crew lineup we will have. Sounds like there is likely 7 guys still at camps. Miedema should be back for tonight but hearing McGowan might be injured. The D will be really thin. What I will be looking for is who of the younger guys respond to getting the additional ice they normally wouldn't get. If you want to earn your spot in the pecking order, a night like tonight is where you need to separate yourself from the guys you are competing against for spots. Just keep it close should be the hope tonight.

Definitely youth on youth tonight.

 

[leafs4life94]

My point was not so much that he would not be in Kingston at all as that they could decide, based on his trg camp, to give him some AHL games and let him go through the AHL trg camp in WB.

He has the enviable position of being Euro therefore, he can play a few in the AHL and not worry. All the signing with Kington was a backstop if he does not make the AHL team. Dubas may want him close by if he does not make the AHL.

So they can play him a few games in WB, see how he does, and then decide to send him to Kingston. I am sure that if Cooper had a guarantee that Uronen and he were coming to Kingston, Chromiak would not be there.

Pieniniemi confirmed sent back to Kingston by Pittsburgh today as expected.

Realistically if there was any chance he'd stick in the AHL I can't imagine they would've signed him so early.

 

[frontsfan67]

Believe it’s the same lines as yesterday.

Hopefully that top line continues its success.

Noticed in the 3rd yesterday they were looking fairly tired. Wonder how today goes with 11 forwards and 5 d again

 

[leafs4life94]

I'm curious where McQuaig and Moore are - hopefully not hurt already, neither played Jr A last night even though their teams did