Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[frontsfan67]

The risk mitigation isn’t about them being conservative, going into the playoffs in the 4th seed and losing in round two. The risk is against them pushing all in, going into the playoffs in the 4th seed and losing in round two. The point is, anything they do is potentially as likely to result int he same result. There are too many variables at play that could positively or negatively affect them. The longer they wait, the more the picture and landscape becomes clear.

It is entirely possible that Kingston spends all of their remaining assets by the beginning of the seasons and they close the current gap. Then Brampton acquires Gibson and Mignosa in a deal for Parker Vaughn, plus Romani for picks and all of a sudden, that gap reappears. Or, they wait for the dust to settle and swoop in if they feel the landscape is right.

I think it is very possible Kingston makes round two by doing very little at this point. Round three would likely require purging everything not nailed down. Round four would likely require some form of major injury’s on their opponent rosters while remaining fully healthy themselves. Just speculation on my part but that loose speculation becomes less “speculative” the longer they wait.

I’m not advocating for this approach but it is possible if the market is a sellers market, they could make a savvy deadline seller move or two to bolster the future so they have more options over the next 2-3 seasons. They wouldn’t be able to solve it all this deadline but they could add wha they need to start setting up a younger core?

They have a lot of options.

Kingston can go and get a 18/19 year old d man and then call it quits on the big moves for the year and go for it next year for all we know. don’t think that happens lol but it is WAY too early to tell how they are and how the other teams are too. On paper barrie and Brampton look like the best but they may take time to prove it with all the guys coming in. Same with Kingston and the moves they’ve made. Let’s start judging teams in February- a month after the deadline teams will start to settle in with their newly acquired players and more separation between the top dogs, middles and the rebuilding teams.

Point is let’s not wave any white flags before the season even starts. 0 point in that. Injuries happen, surprise trades happen, people staying in the nhl, lots of stuff happens that can shake up the east in 1 day.

We can all agree it’s a tough year even for barrie, Brampton, Oshawa. Those 3 with those teams (again assuming Barlow gets traded to Oshawa) probably would all win the east last year. Kingstons on a tier below them right now with Brantford, Brantford and Kingston can both add a crap ton- blow their brains out and be on the same tier with those teams.. only question is if they actually do it.

For instance. If musty comes back and gets traded to kingston or brantford people can’t say that won’t make either of these teams significantly better- he had the best ppg in the league LAST YEAR and he may be back again. Then another variable is who gets Romani? Who gets van steensel? Those are 2 big impact players as well in different roles. Does ludwinski come back for kingston? If so what do they do with that? Is wakely back? where does he go? What if Sudbury gets musty back and empties their cupboards the next 4 years, trades blonda and gets a good goalie? What if Ritchie isn’t back for some reason? What if there’s an injury to a top goalie on one of these teams?

Way too early to throw in the towel for any of these teams. A lot of hockey to be played and trades to be made.

Only teams I’d count out are Ottawa, north bay, Peterborough, Niagara and of those 4 teams again for all we know- maybe north bay tries to run it back… AGAIN.

 

[OMG67]

They have a lot of options.

Kingston can go and get a 18/19 year old d man and then call it quits on the big moves for the year and go for it next year for all we know. don’t think that happens lol but it is WAY too early to tell how they are and how the other teams are too. On paper barrie and Brampton look like the best but they may take time to prove it with all the guys coming in. Same with Kingston and the moves they’ve made. Let’s start judging teams in February- a month after the deadline teams will start to settle in with their newly acquired players and more separation between the top dogs, middles and the rebuilding teams.

Point is let’s not wave any white flags before the season even starts. 0 point in that. Injuries happen, surprise trades happen, people staying in the nhl, lots of stuff happens that can shake up the east in 1 day.

We can all agree it’s a tough year even for barrie, Brampton, Oshawa. Those 3 with those teams (again assuming Barlow gets traded to Oshawa) probably would all win the east last year. Kingstons on a tier below them right now with Brantford, Brantford and Kingston can both add a crap ton- blow their brains out and be on the same tier with those teams.. only question is if they actually do it.

For instance. If musty comes back and gets traded to kingston or brantford people can’t say that won’t make either of these teams significantly better- he had the best ppg in the league LAST YEAR and he may be back again. Then another variable is who gets Romani? Who gets van steensel? Those are 2 big impact players as well in different roles. Does ludwinski come back for kingston? If so what do they do with that? Is wakely back? where does he go? What if Sudbury gets musty back and empties their cupboards the next 4 years, trades blonda and gets a good goalie? What if Ritchie isn’t back for some reason? What if there’s an injury to a top goalie on one of these teams?

Way too early to throw in the towel for any of these teams. A lot of hockey to be played and trades to be made.

Only teams I’d count out are Ottawa, north bay, Peterborough, Niagara and of those 4 teams again for all we know- maybe north bay tries to run it back… AGAIN.

I don’t think anyone is saying throw int he towel. I am saying wait a bit, see how the landscape develops and THEN make a decision on how hard to push, or back off and sell a bit if that makes the most strategic sense. If there are four teams not names Kingston buying in the East and then London, Flint, Erie, and a fourth team in the West emerge and are also buyers, Kingston may be in a very enviable situation where they could move a couple guys and push assets forward. Still remain very solid, win a round in the playoffs and come out a winner in the aggregate. If they were to move Miedema and Burns and still win a round in the playoffs, that would be fantastic assuming the trade returns were very good.

We had a lot of people last year suggesting Ottawa should do just that even when they were sitting in 1st place of the Conference standings entering December. There are a lot of acceptable strategies as long as you commit to them. From my perspective, if this were a true go for it year at all costs, Ludwinski needed to be traded last year and they needed to draft a kid like Challenger and trade him at the deadline. Those two assets packages are more than what they have right now and likely would buy two more key players than they can buy right now. If they can buy two now, they’d have been able to buy four if they were truly committed. I think that is what frustrates me most. You line up your roster for a run and then make two dumb moves (or non-moves) that reduce the flexibility.

 

[frontsfan67]

I don’t think anyone is saying throw int he towel. I am saying wait a bit, see how the landscape develops and THEN make a decision on how hard to push, or back off and sell a bit if that makes the most strategic sense. If there are four teams not names Kingston buying in the East and then London, Flint, Erie, and a fourth team in the West emerge and are also buyers, Kingston may be in a very enviable situation where they could move a couple guys and push assets forward. Still remain very solid, win a round in the playoffs and come out a winner in the aggregate. If they were to move Miedema and Burns and still win a round in the playoffs, that would be fantastic assuming the trade returns were very good.

We had a lot of people last year suggesting Ottawa should do just that even when they were sitting in 1st place of the Conference standings entering December. There are a lot of acceptable strategies as long as you commit to them. From my perspective, if this were a true go for it year at all costs, Ludwinski needed to be traded last year and they needed to draft a kid like Challenger and trade him at the deadline. Those two assets packages are more than what they have right now and likely would buy two more key players than they can buy right now. If they can buy two now, they’d have been able to buy four if they were truly committed. I think that is what frustrates me most. You line up your roster for a run and then make two dumb moves (or non-moves) that reduce the flexibility.

The fronts dilemma is right now they are probably chasing barrie, Brampton and Oshawa.
This is a go for it year 1000% with all the older players on here regardless of if that’s the smartest thing to do or not. The team will look very different next year. The fronts since they’re playing catch up don’t want to be missing out on guys like mews, Andonovski, Gibson, Romani, van steensel, wakely etc as there is obviously a chance some of those guys go to the 3 teams I mentioned- potentially widening the gap.

also teams are selling off their players earlier than usual with the big one being Rehkopf- that set the market. It’s shaping up to be a sellers market right now- meaning if teams were to sell off some of these guys they’ll get top dollar for their players. Right now the smart thing to do is wait- you’re right. But if they do… they’ll just get the other teams scraps for mote than what these players are worth.

 

[frontsfan67]

Q&A: Billeting with the Kingston Frontenacs - Ontario Hockey League

I assume there is a shortage of billets if they’re putting this out there

 

[ZinErie]

Same kind of story in Erie's media last week.

 

[beastintheeast]

I’m not sure the average team has the luxury of never going all-in. A team like London can do it with some fo the recruiting advantages they have but the average team doesn’t have the ability to not empty their draft cabinet to make a run. I don’t think it is realistic.

If a team is unwilling to empty their picks and trade their current first rounder, the odds of them winning a championship is considerably lessened.

So, from my perspective, if a team is unwilling to do what it takes to win a championship and wants to remain stable in the standings, they will likely be a team that stays mostly middling with some “hopeful” seasons. That is fine if your fanbase doesn’t care you haven’t won a Championship in somewhere between 20 years and never. Ottawa last won a championship in 2001 and Kingston has never won one. I think it is unfair to suggest to those fans that winning a championship should take a back seat to consistent ticket sales year over year.

To me, the challenge becomes when throwing your chips in the table is the right time and how do you manage your sell off years to minimize the impact while also stockpiling assets to use for your all in season.

I'm not opposed to the wait and see option but it just feels like another waste of a year if they don't try - if they go into the playoffs 4th without making moves then all the '05 talent they've accumulated has gone to waste. There's no world where they can re-tool enough for 25-26 to be a threat, so now we're on to 26-27, with Hopkins/Weir/Velliaris as 19 y/o, and ideally two '07 imports, two

In terms of assets - most of their assets are '26 and '28 picks - so if they can push back some of those 2026 picks then maybe they do go for it in 2 years while treading water and getting a series or two this year and next.

The challenge a team has is do they become a team that goes fopr it and throws all in to go for a trip to the M Cup and then suck for 2-3 years while they rebuild or do they build a consistent team that is always at the top and plays 600 + every year while developing great players.

Kingston, since the Mav era, has always been a team that trades away its stars, drafts badly, and then sucks for a few years after making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Yes, you can make the playoffs if you have a team that can win, BUT you can not make the playoffs if you have to trade all your players and picks to get the expertise that you need.


Consider this as an altenative view.

If Kingston had a history of being competitive and a lineup that was projected to be a top-five team for the next year, would they have had a better chance at hosting the M CUP and thereby getting in over Saginaw?

The OHL has been screaming for Kingston to build a dynasty or team that competes so that they can bring the M CUP to the city of its birth. The problem Kingston has is that they always have a crappy team on paper that will not guarantee they are competitive.

THEN YOU HAVE THE FANS

The average Kingston person and remember for a lot of my life that was me and my family. I really did not care if the team went to the Memorial CUP or, to be honest, if they won it. What the average fan wants is a team that goes on the ice and is entertaining every night. In Kingston entertaining means winning.

People in Kingston, and I will add probably Ottawa, are not going to buy Season tickets for a team that is going to be in last place or near the bottom two out of three years.


My case in point is MisterDB who was a season ticket holder who said enough of this when the prices went up and the quality went down.

You also want to build with the team and get player awareness. This you do with your rookies and by keeping them so that the kids see them and for some they become heroes.

THE Players, parents and agents

Kingston saw this during the Mav era and it is even worse now with all the choices that players have for locations to play. Parents look at the team and discuss with their agent whether they want their kid to play on a team or look for alternatives. If Johnny is going to get drafted by Kingston the year that they may go for it, then they are going to want to pass on the Fronts and go somewhere else because they know that the team is not going to develop him, and they know that Kingsotnis are going to trade him. So why not just say ok, let's get him to the team he can play on. Either by refusing to sign or telling teams to pass over him. OR going to the USHL


Before you can go for it you have to have the players already on your team to be a frist place team. You can not take a 4th place team and make enough trades to make it a Cup contender in this league.



Build a team that can compete every year. When you get good enough and consistent, you can add a couple of pieces, but do not try to add five players and think that that is going to do it.

 

[OMG67]

Beast, some will consider 20 straight seasons in the playoffs with a total of 4 playoff rounds won a success. 16 of 20 teams make the playoffs. Perpetually making the playoffs IMO is not a measure of success.

If a team is perpetually in that .550-.600 range year over year, that is great. But how often do they make it out of round 2? Never? Again, some would call it a success. Others? Maybe not.

If you are a fan of a hockey team for 40 years and you watch decent hockey year in and year out and don’t even sniff a League Championship Final, is that satisfying?

Ottawa last won a Championship 23 years ago. There are 20 teams in the league. They aren’t even mathematically on the right side of that discussion. Kingston has never won.

I discount the Memorial Cup as hosts. Fun tourney and it is great for the host team when they win but Ottawa won in 1999 as a host team that lost in round 2. Whatever.

The fans don’t care if the owner makes $150k per year instead of $50k per year. They care if the team wins. A win means a Championship. Teams should be in it to win a championship. Moves should be made with that in mind, opportunities to make a run.

Ottawa fell short in 2019 and allowed Guelph to load up. They still sucked in 2021. They fell short in 2022 and could have pushed for Wright and moved Mews. How did that work for them in 2023 or now in 2024?

If the GM takes a half assed approach, they get half assed results. Winning a Championship for most teams is a four season lift. They need to draft and make savvy moves to align resources and HOPE the year they align has a little less competition at the top. Help the odds a bit.

You can champion for a team to be good every year because it means a more consistent fan base and a more consistent revenue stream for the owner but I disagree with that approach. Make a best effort to align resources for a run every 4-5 years. You don’t need to bottom out but you have to accept one losing season (miss the playoffs) every 5 years, one middling season (6-8 range), two solid years (3-5 range) and the one year you win the division and make a run at a Finals appearance.

If you align your resources properly and you get a bit of luck, you maybe don’t have to cut as deep as the Petes did but you likely lose your 1st rounder and deplete all your draft picks in rounds 2 through 5. Then you focus on replenishing for two seasons while you rebuild.

Good fans will understand and support the team through good and bad.

 

[beastintheeast]

Beast, some will consider 20 straight seasons in the playoffs with a total of 4 playoff rounds won a success. 16 of 20 teams make the playoffs. Perpetually making the playoffs IMO is not a measure of success.

If a team is perpetually in that .550-.600 range year over year, that is great. But how often do they make it out of round 2? Never? Again, some would call it a success. Others? Maybe not.

If you are a fan of a hockey team for 40 years and you watch decent hockey year in and year out and don’t even sniff a League Championship Final, is that satisfying?

Ottawa last won a Championship 23 years ago. There are 20 teams in the league. They aren’t even mathematically on the right side of that discussion. Kingston has never won.

I discount the Memorial Cup as hosts. Fun tourney and it is great for the host team when they win but Ottawa won in 1999 as a host team that lost in round 2. Whatever.

The fans don’t care if the owner makes $150k per year instead of $50k per year. They care if the team wins. A win means a Championship. Teams should be in it to win a championship. Moves should be made with that in mind, opportunities to make a run.

Ottawa fell short in 2019 and allowed Guelph to load up. They still sucked in 2021. They fell short in 2022 and could have pushed for Wright and moved Mews. How did that work for them in 2023 or now in 2024?

If the GM takes a half assed approach, they get half assed results. Winning a Championship for most teams is a four season lift. They need to draft and make savvy moves to align resources and HOPE the year they align has a little less competition at the top. Help the odds a bit.

You can champion for a team to be good every year because it means a more consistent fan base and a more consistent revenue stream for the owner but I disagree with that approach. Make a best effort to align resources for a run every 4-5 years. You don’t need to bottom out but you have to accept one losing season (miss the playoffs) every 5 years, one middling season (6-8 range), two solid years (3-5 range) and the one year you win the division and make a run at a Finals appearance.

If you align your resources properly and you get a bit of luck, you maybe don’t have to cut as deep as the Petes did but you likely lose your 1st rounder and deplete all your draft picks in rounds 2 through 5. Then you focus on replenishing for two seasons while you rebuild.

Good fans will understand and support the team through good and bad.

The problem in Kingston is in the last sentence. Kingston fans want winners; they want teams that are going to win games. I am not saying that the team has to be the league champions or never go for it BUT consider this.

Kingston has for quite a while done the rebuild 2 years and goes for it 3rd year. Traded their first-round picks as well as draft picks and have only made it to the 3rd round once and truly stunk the next year.

Most fans go to a game for a night out or to entertain themselves with a friend or family. To them, entertaining is not watching a bunch of kids who have no idea what they are doing flopping around the ice. Yes, diehard fans want the team to make all the big deals, BUT the majority of fans want an entertaining night out.

Her is an example. My dad had season tickets to the Fronts and gave them up. I know if you were around the booster table, you met my dad, and he was there for almost every Friday night game as well as Sundays. I want to think part of it was a certain raccoon and the guy that owned it, BUT I can tell you that it was the on-ice product as well as Dick Steph and the others around the booster club table. He got to watch a team that night in and night out played hard and played to win.

Kids wore the jerseys with Lance Alyn and Mike's names on them not because they won a championship but because they loved the players.

When you sat in the seats, how many complained about championships and how many complained about this player or that player or the team on eh ice that game?

You and I disagree on this and probably always will. But consider this: Over the past six years, who do you think had more entertaining games?

Kingston with 170 out of 408 or Ottawa 245 out of the same number of games

 

[dirty12]

The challenge a team has is do they become a team that goes fopr it and throws all in to go for a trip to the M Cup and then suck for 2-3 years while they rebuild or do they build a consistent team that is always at the top and plays 600 + every year while developing great players.

Kingston, since the Mav era, has always been a team that trades away its stars, drafts badly, and then sucks for a few years after making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Yes, you can make the playoffs if you have a team that can win, BUT you can not make the playoffs if you have to trade all your players and picks to get the expertise that you need.


Consider this as an altenative view.

If Kingston had a history of being competitive and a lineup that was projected to be a top-five team for the next year, would they have had a better chance at hosting the M CUP and thereby getting in over Saginaw?

The OHL has been screaming for Kingston to build a dynasty or team that competes so that they can bring the M CUP to the city of its birth. The problem Kingston has is that they always have a crappy team on paper that will not guarantee they are competitive.

THEN YOU HAVE THE FANS

The average Kingston person and remember for a lot of my life that was me and my family. I really did not care if the team went to the Memorial CUP or, to be honest, if they won it. What the average fan wants is a team that goes on the ice and is entertaining every night. In Kingston entertaining means winning.

People in Kingston, and I will add probably Ottawa, are not going to buy Season tickets for a team that is going to be in last place or near the bottom two out of three years.


My case in point is MisterDB who was a season ticket holder who said enough of this when the prices went up and the quality went down.

You also want to build with the team and get player awareness. This you do with your rookies and by keeping them so that the kids see them and for some they become heroes.

THE Players, parents and agents

Kingston saw this during the Mav era and it is even worse now with all the choices that players have for locations to play. Parents look at the team and discuss with their agent whether they want their kid to play on a team or look for alternatives. If Johnny is going to get drafted by Kingston the year that they may go for it, then they are going to want to pass on the Fronts and go somewhere else because they know that the team is not going to develop him, and they know that Kingsotnis are going to trade him. So why not just say ok, let's get him to the team he can play on. Either by refusing to sign or telling teams to pass over him. OR going to the USHL


Before you can go for it you have to have the players already on your team to be a frist place team. You can not take a 4th place team and make enough trades to make it a Cup contender in this league.



Build a team that can compete every year. When you get good enough and consistent, you can add a couple of pieces, but do not try to add five players and think that that is going to do it.

Saginaw made the most convincing presentation, end of story.

Saginaw turned a middling roster into a true contender in-season.
Oshawa with the right two OAs and a lot of luck went to the final.
Look at what Brampton has done this off-season with a roster that was built for 2025-26.

Kingston can most certainly contend with the right additions. Those additions do not have to be offence only all-stars.

 

[beastintheeast]

Saginaw made the most convincing presentation, end of story.

Saginaw turned a middling roster into a true contender in-season.
Oshawa with the right two OAs and a lot of luck went to the final.
Look at what Brampton has done this off-season with a roster that was built for 2025-26.

Kingston can most certainly contend with the right additions. Those additions do not have to be offence only all-stars.

Can you honestly say that Kingston had an online product that had M Cup potential? Saginaw won this one because A they had some stars and B they were American.

BUT this is not the only time that Kingston has bid and failed.

The significance of having a competitive team on paper cannot be overstated. It's a result of strategic planning and foresight.

But you are missing the point Brampton built for this year and next. Brantford did the same thing.

Every team that has made it has had star players that they drafted and developed. You can not start a year with a bunch of 2nd or 3rd line players and have the idea of going all the way or deep into the playoffs because you are going to trade away all your young talent and draft picks for rental players.

Kingston has tried that and it does not work. ONLY 1 trip to the 3rd round.

Your challenge is to decide what you want as an owner and what you want as a fan base.

You know what they say about people who try the same thing even if it does not work over and over.

Maybe it is time to go the other way and see if you can build a team that will be a top-four team every year. Bring in the fans. Forget about trophies.

Eventually, you will grow your fan base, and you will have a year where you can add 3 players with all the assets you have and be that contender.

 

[frontsfan67]

Saginaw made the most convincing presentation, end of story.

1000%

An exceptional status player and a d man that was good enough to get drafted 9th overall in the NHL plus the best team of the 4 bidding teams

Kingston can most certainly contend with the right additions. Those additions do not have to be offence only all-stars.

absolutely. Look at Oshawa last year. They didn’t add 50 different players. Just got punnett and sandhu pretty much after getting Lockhart earlier in the season

 

[frontsfan67]

Can you honestly say that Kingston had an online product that had M Cup potential? Saginaw won this one because A they had some stars and B they were American.

Beast that is absolutely bull and you know it. Saginaw had the 4 spot at the time they picked the winner, Misa and Parekh. Kingston had who? Paul ludwinski and a worse team. American or not they absolutely deserved to host that and they proved it when they won it.

I heard enough people whining and complaining about not getting it here in kingston because Saginaw was American when the facts are the facts- and the fact is Saginaw was set up better both with a team and their young stars.

 

[beastintheeast]

Beast that is absolutely bull and you know it. Saginaw had the 4 spot at the time they picked the winner, Misa and Parekh. Kingston had who? Paul ludwinski and a worse team. American or not they absolutely deserved to host that and they proved it when they won it.

I heard enough people whining and complaining about not getting it here in kingston because Saginaw was American when the facts are the facts- and the fact is Saginaw was set up better both with a team and their young stars.

FF

That is my point. When it comes to cities and what they have to offer, Kingston is one of the best. Where Kingston lags is in the on ice product that they have and will have.

That is why I am a proponent of teams building not so much dynasties as consistent winning teams that have star power coaching and are contenders.

In three years, this is going to come up again, and the year that the bidding is held, Kingston will have a rebuilding team. Their fan base is not huge, but they will have great facilities and will possibly go up against other cities that have everything and a contending team.

 

[frontsfan67]

FF

That is my point. When it comes to cities and what they have to offer, Kingston is one of the best. Where Kingston lags is in the on ice product that they have and will have.

That is why I am a proponent of teams building not so much dynasties as consistent winning teams that have star power coaching and are contenders.

People will then find something new to complain about such as losing in the first/second round every year. The majority of the casual fans here are just absolutely miserable. Don’t understand the way is run or anything. Think every team should be like London

In three years, this is going to come up again, and the year that the bidding is held, Kingston will have a rebuilding team. Their fan base is not huge, but they will have great facilities and will possibly go up against other cities that have everything and a contending team.

In 3 years from now Kitchener has that locked up.

0 chance it goes anywhere else. And they’re run very well and have good fan support and consistent good teams

The teams they’d be competing against are sarnia (too small and arena isn’t as nice- Kitchener has the best one in the league imo with London a close second), Peterborough (will never get it with that arena) and Niagara (great arena, good fan support but have sucked for a while. With roobroeck potentially in the NHL for that year, Kevin He gone and no good 07 d man (frolov traded) I don’t see them winning the bid. Plus after all has happened for that team in the last 5-10 years all the controversies it wouldn’t look good for the chl to let the ice dogs host.

 

[OMG67]

There is a happy medium between reckless cycle building and being consistently good. You can be the hybrid team and do very well year after year and every 4-6 years be in a position to move more assets than you are comfortable with and give yourself an honest chance at a Championship. But, you have to NEVER miss in the 1st and 2nd round of the draft. You need quality players because to be that hybrid team, you need to draft well.

Ottawa is a good example right now of a hybrid team. Covid sort of messed things up a bit but it did for everyone. Jeff Brown took over the team and put them back on track. He traded away a few players, gained some picks and started to build a consistently decent roster. The type of roster Beast is referring to. Consistently pretty good and entertaining. Boyd came in and continued the same process but he inherited a pretty good picks cupboard.

Then in 2019, Boyd decided to take the BEAST approach and basically added two OA’s to fill his OA spots and called it a day. HE conserved assets. Guelph turned over its roster and pushed all in. They acquired three players off the Team Canada roster and beat Ottawa in the Final. Wasted opportunity #1. Then the following year, Ottawa was on record pace in the regular season and chugging along. Covid cancelled the season but I agree with Dirty that the Petes likely had the upper hand with their deadline acquisitions. Ottawa did zero at the deadline. Conserved picks. We won’t know what would have happened but I think we’d have lost in round 3. Hypothetically another wasted opportunity. We lost the covid year so we were unable to turn over the roster and came out of covid with a poor team. Too young. Then we had the bang up year in 2023. We added an Import (Mintyukov) and an OA (Morrison). Again, we held back from pushing in. Lost in round 2.

So, the point is a team can go hybrid. They can build good teams and be savvy at trading away players to build a strong arsenal of picks and use them as trade assets when needed without having to completely bottom out. They have to go a little harder when it is time to give ‘er a go and then sell off a little harder the following year to get back into neutral position the following season. Ottawa didn’t do enough. If they had made that one extra move to acquire Suzuki in 2019 and then that one extra move in 2023 to acquire Shane Wright, they’d likely have won two Championships and it would not have bottomed out the team at all.

The cycle doesn’t need to be heavy. BUT, you need to have the picks available entering your push year. I think you need eight 2nds, and eight 3rds to be considered capable of pushing without needing to go overly heavy trading young players. If you have those picks plus you are willing to trade your mid-round 1st, I think you can add four key players. Then, after that season, you need to move one key player the following season and another the following season after that and you are back to having eight 2nds and eight 3rds.

This is the Kingston thread. So, from a Kingston perspective, they absolutely needed to trade Ludwinski last year. They needed to push assets forward and that deal was where they’d be able to do it. However, they had two players that were problematic for them (Frasca and Thibodeau). That presents a problem because you need to trade those guys away and then acquire their replacements and you want to ensure the transaction costs end up neutral. That can be tough to do. IMO, Kingston didn’t have enough picks entering the season. To compound that, they didn’t have the luxury or dangling their first round pick. They had to shake up the roster by trading two of their top scorers because of “other issues.” That is a tough situation in a normal year. Even tougher in a year where there are a handful of other teams just as good or better than you are.

Hypothetically, if Kingston had traded Ludwinski, coupled with there being no issues with Frasca and Thibodeau, and they had drafted Challenger in round one instead of Malhotra, I would suggest they’d have been in a prime position to truly push their chips in. Then next year move out Battaglia and the following year move out Hopkins, stay somewhat competitive and rebuild the war chest. Be shrewd at the draft table and maintain some competitiveness. I think they have enough solid ‘06 and ‘07 players that moving Battaglia and Hopkins in consecutive years wouldn’t overly affect the team too much. They make the playoffs and don’t bottom out. They don’t need to trade everything that graduates and finish last.

There is a hybrid formula out there. It doesn’t need to be an extreme swing in cycle.

 

[OMG67]

People will then find something new to complain about such as losing in the first/second round every year. The majority of the casual fans here are just absolutely miserable. Don’t understand the way is run or anything. Think every team should be like London

In 3 years from now Kitchener has that locked up.

0 chance it goes anywhere else. And they’re run very well and have good fan support and consistent good teams

The teams they’d be competing against are sarnia (too small and arena isn’t as nice- Kitchener has the best one in the league imo with London a close second), Peterborough (will never get it with that arena) and Niagara (great arena, good fan support but have sucked for a while. With roobroeck potentially in the NHL for that year, Kevin He gone and no good 07 d man (frolov traded) I don’t see them winning the bid. Plus after all has happened for that team in the last 5-10 years all the controversies it wouldn’t look good for the chl to let the ice dogs host.

The Ice Dogs have some house cleaning and reputation building to do before they will be considered, that is for sure.

Ottawa is going to be a serious threat as a host but probably in 2030. They are building the new arena and should have all the phases of the redevelopment of Lansdowne Park completed by then. They will tear down the existing Rink and the North Side stands of the football stadium after they complete the new rink that is being built outside the East Side end zone. Once they have the new stands up, they will start on the Mixed Commercial Residential that will replace the space where the rink currently is.

When that is done, Ottawa will have the best facility for a Memorial Cup in the entire CHL and it won’t be close. Fans could quite literally leave their hotel at Noon and come down to Lansdowne and stay the entire day with the game in the evening. They will have events lined up in the Cattle Castle and all the restaurants and theatre on site. A big Concert series after the games in the Football stadium. Loads of park space and access to the canal trails. Short walk to downtown from that spot along the canal. Ottawa only needs a decent team and they will win the bid that they decide to make. Pretty much a no doubter. I am pegging 2030 but if there are delays in the full site development then 2033.

If done right, that could be the best Memorial Cup event of all time.

 

[zaluty]

Camden McQuaig 2 goals 1 assist tonight for the Cornwall Colts

 

[frontsfan67]

Camden McQuaig 2 goals 1 assist tonight for the Cornwall Colts

With the apparent affiliate rule changing according to ohl4life I assume we will see lots of McQuaig this year for call ups

From what I’ve seen he has a lot of potential

 

[Petes1987]

With the apparent affiliate rule changing according to ohl4life I assume we will see lots of McQuaig this year for call ups

From what I’ve seen he has a lot of potential

What is the affiliate rule change that is coming?

 

[frontsfan67]

What is the affiliate rule change that is coming?

Believe they are changing the 10 game rule with A and B cards making it so that “prospects” or players affiliated with teams should be able to get more games in. I could have misunderstood but that’s was my understanding.

@OHL4Life is this true or am I dreaming?

 

[beastintheeast]

With the apparent affiliate rule changing according to ohl4life I assume we will see lots of McQuaig this year for call ups

From what I’ve seen he has a lot of potential

Itr could also be that he is close to making the team and Cooper and Mann wanted him to get more game time to see how he does

 

[OHL4Life]

Believe they are changing the 10 game rule with A and B cards making it so that “prospects” or players affiliated with teams should be able to get more games in. I could have misunderstood but that’s was my understanding.

@OHL4Life is this true or am I dreaming?

It’s true, if your signed to an OHL contract you don’t count against the 16 year old cards in jr b and have unlimited call ups until Jan 10, after that it’s 10 games.

Pete’s are the best!

 

[OHL4Life]

What is the affiliate rule change that is coming?

Believe they are changing the 10 game rule with A and B cards making it so that “prospects” or players affiliated with teams should be able to get more games in. I could have misunderstood but that’s was my understanding.

@OHL4Life is this true or am I dreaming?

it’s only for the jr b loop, not ontario wide.

 

[Squirrel88]

it’s only for the jr b loop, not ontario wide.

Not trying to hijack the Kingston thread, but if true, this seems to work well for both the Jr B loop and the O. Teams in the O have some additional flexibility with their prospects and Jr. B gets a potential upgrade in talent and interest in their teams. Combine it with the possibility of eventually playing in the NCAA and teams may be more aggressive on signing prospects, with more short-term and longer term flexibility.

On the timing of trades, I wouldn't assume that the Rehkopf thing is more than a one-off situation that involved specific circumstances. Kitchener needed a lot of picks and is not in a position to compete this year. Add in the possible Valentini deal connection and you have two teams motivated to make a deal early. Other potential sellers may prefer to wait and try to maximize on price.

Now, if Kingston wants to do a soft buy and add at a lower cost this year, Swick has looked good in the pre-season. Just sayin'.

 

[OMG67]

Not trying to hijack the Kingston thread, but if true, this seems to work well for both the Jr B loop and the O. Teams in the O have some additional flexibility with their prospects and Jr. B gets a potential upgrade in talent and interest in their teams. Combine it with the possibility of eventually playing in the NCAA and teams may be more aggressive on signing prospects, with more short-term and longer term flexibility.

On the timing of trades, I wouldn't assume that the Rehkopf thing is more than a one-off situation that involved specific circumstances. Kitchener needed a lot of picks and is not in a position to compete this year. Add in the possible Valentini deal connection and you have two teams motivated to make a deal early. Other potential sellers may prefer to wait and try to maximize on price.

Now, if Kingston wants to do a soft buy and add at a lower cost this year, Swick has looked good in the pre-season. Just sayin'.

It may be a one off but the rumour is Barlow is on his way to Oshawa as soon as he is reassigned. You also have the Bertucci deal.

I think too many of the proposed contenders don’t have 1st round picks to trade so they are getting players early with picks. If teams can’t extract the 1st rounders then picks it is…