Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[frontsfan67]

The challenges for Kingston last year were

1. started the year under Caputi's system then had to adapt to Mann
2. not a strong defence
3. not a dependable goaltending tandem (first half of year)

This year is going to depend on

how well they can fill some of the spots on forward
Does Pienemini report and can they find an effective RHD
How Vaccari bounces back and will Nolan report, and
how effective is Mann's system

Completely agree.

pieniniemi is reporting but won’t be at training camp. Comes early September.

Also Nolan is reporting.

 

[frontsfan67]

2. I felt like the Fronts had a strong D core last year, especially after the trade deadline with 3 NHL drafted defensemen

Burns, Schmidt but Holmes wasn’t the same after his surgery in December.

3. Exactly - How do you not address this? Who is the goaltending coach on this club? The GM? The Fronts made him start 59 out of 68 games.

Something we can all agree on and most of us were hoping for an oa goalie at the deadline rather than jax Dubois.

After the trade deadline with the new players added, the club was 14 wins, 17 losses winning the last 4 games at home.
Underachieving is a polite way of saying 2023/2024 was a failure of a season in which they were likely runner up to host the Memorial Cup.

They didn’t push any chips in because they lost the bid and decided this year would give a better chance at a championship.

 

[frontsfan67]

Seems to be a real shortage of ads this year.

 

[ScoutLife4]

View attachment 902405
Seems to be a real shortage of ads this year.

They typically don't even have the board stickers on yet i was thinking they are actually ahead this year lol.
Give it a couple weeks and there will be banners everywhere

 

[zaluty]

Hope they release the training camp rosters soon but probably be on Monday

 

[frontsfan67]

They typically don't even have the board stickers on yet i was thinking they are actually ahead this year lol.
Give it a couple weeks and there will be banners everywhere

That’s true. Didn’t even think of that. Usually pretty bare right now

Hope they release the training camp rosters soon but probably be on Monday

Yeah I think a couple teams may have already that would make sense. Monday at the latest probably as it starts on the 28th.

Really hoping to see Kieran dervin there

 

[OMG67]

They typically don't even have the board stickers on yet i was thinking they are actually ahead this year lol.
Give it a couple weeks and there will be banners everywhere

I was sort of thinking the opposite. Doesn’t look like there is much room left on the ice surface! The ice surface looks like a Euro jersey! Sixteen logos on the ice!

Some buildings have a bunch of banners that never get taken down…….

 

[ScoutLife4]

I look forward to hearing the new upgraded sound system.
Next year they should look at upgrading that video board.

 

[the dog]

I look forward to hearing the new upgraded sound system.
Next year they should look at upgrading that video board.

How old is video board?

 

[ScoutLife4]

How old is video board?

I think it’s original from when the arena opened.
It’s terrible quality video and the screen itself is quite small

 

[beastintheeast]

I was sort of thinking the opposite. Doesn’t look like there is much room left on the ice surface! The ice surface looks like a Euro jersey! Sixteen logos on the ice!

Some buildings have a bunch of banners that never get taken down…….

Itis possible that a lot of the ads on the boards are old from last year. You really never know who is onboard or not until the opening game when everything is shiny and new LOL

 

[beastintheeast]

So are you stating that some of the teams failure is on the Coaches or GMs shoulder?? Because that is exactly where I feel the finger should be pointed.

Yes , there is no way Caputi should have been allowed to start the year behind the bench. Behind the bench, a new coach with a new approach to accountability should have been used.

You know why Downey wouldn't report right?
Because he as a 19 year old, wasn't playing 2nd fiddle to a 18 year old goalie.

Then why did they even bother getting him? GM issue

I can assure you the Fronts under Caputi were not out of shape, they were one of the best 1st period teams in the league down the stretch in 2022-2023 but couldn't finish out games due to a lack of talent and depth. Accountability was definitely an issue though, agreed.

First period means nothing it is the third period that makes hte difference in contitioning and ablity to fiish a game. It is being alble to skate for 60 minutes not just 20.

I disagree with the stronger on defense but hopefully they prove season ticket holders and fans wrong. The goalie situation needed to be addressed last year.

Last year you had Burns, Chromiak, Holmes MCGowan and Uens wuth Willaimson and Vellaris in the wings. None of them were what you can call an offensive threat. Looking at the plus minus they were not really a defensive threat either to the other team.

This year you have 5 retruning players plus possibly Pie
The rooki9es have been tested and Wiliams on and Vellaris should be improved. If Pie comes then expect less pressure on Burns and I think under Mann's system with solid goaltending they are gong to be much improved.

 

[beastintheeast]

I think there is a legacy of losing in Kingston. I think mindset has a lot to do with success. A Player going to a team with a legacy of winning expects to win. I know a lot of people will suggest that is a bunch of malarkey but I truly believe teams with a legacy of success end up “overachieving” while teams with a legacy of losing tend to “underachieve.”

I REALLY like Mann. I think he is a very solid coach and I think he has the attributes to turn that franchise around provided Springer allows and supports it. But, it takes time. Teams like Kingston need to have a few years of success to shake off the dirt from the previous few decades of sub-par results.

Some teams perform very well in the heavy cycle. A team like Erie comes to mind. They have done very well with the feast and famine cycle. Some other teams tend to be more successful staying consistently competitive. A team like Owen Sound comes to mind. But, just because that particular strategy works for one organization, it doesn’t mean it will wrk well for others.

I get the sense that Kingston is poised to go feast or famine mode. Famine mode only works when the Feast year is successful.

Kingston needs to find a coach that is willing to stay around for a few yers and pay him what he is worth to stay. They also need to set up a system for player development that each coach can follow. Train the assistants properly.

Cooper has to refrain from we need to win the league this year mentality to just putting the best team on the ice this year as well as ensuring that they have the parts to have another winning team next year.

There are those who say winning the league and going for the M Cup is the only goal, and for teams that can build or have a strong fan base, that might work. BUT KIngston is not that team. Kingston needs to build the fan base, and the only way to do that is to put together winning teams that develop stars for the NHL . Not drafting the number 1 pick and thinking everyone will come in crowds just to see him every night.

 

[beastintheeast]

Completely agree.

pieniniemi is reporting but won’t be at training camp. Comes early September.

Also Nolan is reporting.

Nolan is not a big surprise, but it's good to see that they play him well and he stays happy.

Diervin is going to be a no-show. Sorry, he is committed to Penn State. Really can not see him throw that away to play in Kingston.

 

[Generalsupdates]

I REALLY like Mann. I think he is a very solid coach and I think he has the attributes to turn that franchise around provided Springer allows and supports it. But, it takes time. Teams like Kingston need to have a few years of success to shake off the dirt from the previous few decades of sub-par results.

Gabe Frasca asking out because he didn't want to play for Mann again would have me extremely scared if I was a Fronts fan. That trade made no sense until it came out that Frasca asked out

 

[OMG67]

Gabe Frasca asking out because he didn't want to play for Mann again would have me extremely scared if I was a Fronts fan. That trade made no sense until it came out that Frasca asked out

Sounds more like it was mutual. Could be the player. Could be the coach. Could be a mix of both.

One player isnt’ necessarily an issue. I’d be more worried in Ottawa when Rohrer chooses not to return, Beck asks out, Mews asks out, Gardiner asks out….. and that is with a WJHC Team Canada Head Coach!

 

[Generalsupdates]

Sounds more like it was mutual. Could be the player. Could be the coach. Could be a mix of both.

One player isnt’ necessarily an issue. I’d be more worried in Ottawa when Rohrer chooses not to return, Beck asks out, Mews asks out, Gardiner asks out….. and that is with a WJHC Team Canada Head Coach!

Did we find out why Thibodeau got traded? That seemed very weird at the time too, especially to then go get older players in Guindon and Uronen right after.

I did not hear that Mews wanted out, that's very interesting. Not the most surprising tho, Cameron while well respected, I could see not being the most new school in his ideas and Mews needs a coach who's going to give him the freedom to run wild like Parekh does in SAG

 

[OMG67]

Did we find out why Thibodeau got traded? That seemed very weird at the time too, especially to then go get older players in Guindon and Uronen right after.

I did not hear that Mews wanted out, that's very interesting. Not the most surprising tho, Cameron while well respected, I could see not being the most new school in his ideas and Mews needs a coach who's going to give him the freedom to run wild like Parekh does in SAG

New coach, new system, new culture etc. There will always be some clashing when that happens. Start to hold selfish players accountable and those selfish players want out. I am not saying that is what the situation was but I could see that being an issue. I wouldn’t worry about Man unless he has the same issues next year. I assume they will draft and develop according to his strengths and needs.

 

[frontsfan67]

Gabe Frasca asking out because he didn't want to play for Mann again would have me extremely scared if I was a Fronts fan. That trade made no sense until it came out that Frasca asked out

Frasca didn’t like that they brought in Dubois at the deadline and thought he should be the 1C over ludwinski at the start of the year. He didn’t play like he wanted to be here after the deadline too oddly enough. Numbers went down too (but was a short sample size before 10-15 games before the deadline is all he played)

Sucks obviously losing frasca but atleast they got a good package for a guy who didn’t want to be here.

Nolan is not a big surprise, but it's good to see that they play him well and he stays happy.

Diervin is going to be a no-show. Sorry, he is committed to Penn State. Really can not see him throw that away to play in Kingston.

Yeah I don’t think he comes either but him circling back around when they had the rookie camp was interesting. Would obviously be huge for us if he did come but I wouldn’t put any money on him being here.

Did we find out why Thibodeau got traded? That seemed very weird at the time too, especially to then go get older players in Guindon and Uronen right after.

From what I heard he wanted out after the playoffs but they had to wait for the trade period. Had nothing to do with Guindon and uronen but still not sure why he wanted out exactly.

 

[Petes1987]

New coach, new system, new culture etc. There will always be some clashing when that happens. Start to hold selfish players accountable and those selfish players want out. I am not saying that is what the situation was but I could see that being an issue. I wouldn’t worry about Man unless he has the same issues next year. I assume they will draft and develop according to his strengths and needs.

You are correct. After Dick Todd left Peterborough in 1993 there were some players including two star players who did not like new Coach, Dave McQueen’s style of coaching and asked for trades. They were replaced with players that were more suited to McQueen’s systems. They had a tough couple of years as a team but then won an OHL Championship.

 

[beastintheeast]

Frasca didn’t like that they brought in Dubois at the deadline and thought he should be the 1C over ludwinski at the start of the year. He didn’t play like he wanted to be here after the deadline too oddly enough. Numbers went down too (but was a short sample size before 10-15 games before the deadline is all he played)

Sucks obviously losing frasca but atleast they got a good package for a guy who didn’t want to be here.


Yeah I don’t think he comes either but him circling back around when they had the rookie camp was interesting. Would obviously be huge for us if he did come but I wouldn’t put any money on him being here.


From what I heard he wanted out after the playoffs but they had to wait for the trade period. Had nothing to do with Guindon and uronen but still not sure why he wanted out exactly.

Frasca was a little short-sighted, and it not only hurt him on the ice, but you can guarantee it was part of the reason no one took a flier on him at the NHL draft.

The ego issue was tha biggest reason that you guys did so poorly. But consider this the 2 players that thought they were god's greatest gifts both went undrafted.


As to Thibodeau I think he wanted out because Mann probably told Daddy where to go and how to get there. Also there was going to be no room on the Kingston team for 1 dimensional players under Mann's system. Thibodeau's dad screwed up. He would have been better off going the USHL route. At least, then, he would have had the NHL chance but also kept his Uni credit.

Now, he will play out his OHL time and then go the ECHL route.

Actually I think this is a deal that is going to bite Flint in the butt.

 

[PuckLucker]

Did we find out why Thibodeau got traded? That seemed very weird at the time too, especially to then go get older players in Guindon and Uronen right after.

I did not hear that Mews wanted out, that's very interesting. Not the most surprising tho, Cameron while well respected, I could see not being the most new school in his ideas and Mews needs a coach who's going to give him the freedom to run wild like Parekh does in SAG

There is likely more to the story that fans don't know about. Nobody has mentioned the Budnick trade yet which happened shortly after the new coach onboarded. At the time of his trade he was one of the Fronts only positive +/- defensemen.

Mann prefers coaching older players (AHL still runs in his blood)

 

[beastintheeast]

There is likely more to the story that fans don't know about. Nobody has mentioned the Budnick trade yet which happened shortly after the new coach onboarded. At the time of his trade he was one of the Fronts only positive +/- defensemen.

Mann prefers coaching older players (AHL still runs in his blood)

Budnicka requested the trade so it is hard to say. coaching older players would not have been an issue with him as he was 19.

If Thibodeau was crying for a trade during hte season that is because he did not like Mann's system and the fact that Mann wants 2 way team players that can pass the puck and back check

Like I said this camp is going to be interesting.

 

[OHL4Life]

Did we find out why Thibodeau got traded? That seemed very weird at the time too, especially to then go get older players in Guindon and Uronen right after.

he asked out, frasca asked out. frasca and kingston seemed like a relationship that had expired.

You are correct. After Dick Todd left Peterborough in 1993 there were some players including two star players who did not like new Coach, Dave McQueen’s style of coaching and asked for trades. They were replaced with players that were more suited to McQueen’s systems. They had a tough couple of years as a team but then won an OHL Championship.

the petes are the best!!!!!!

 

[ScoutLife4]

Budnicka requested the trade so it is hard to say. coaching older players would not have been an issue with him as he was 19.

If Thibodeau was crying for a trade during hte season that is because he did not like Mann's system and the fact that Mann wants 2 way team players that can pass the puck and back check

Like I said this camp is going to be interesting.

Budnicks girlfriend was going to school in Guelph.
He requested to get closer to her and they were unhappy with his lack of discipline so i think it was mutual in the end as he was disciplined a couple times for off ice issues.

Thibodeau it was more trading the Dad then the player. Him and Cooper / Caputi had been butting heads for a while before Mann even came in.

Frasca returned from his injury, struggled and was toxic when Kingston brought in Dubois
I was personally told by at least 3 staff members that he just was not a good person which is a pretty bold statement.
Frasca's mom unfortunately was very involved in his decision making and was coaching him.
I think these moves are sending a signal that they only want players that are 100% committed.
Frasca turned out to be a lazy player and let his emotions affect his draft year but he is blaming the team for going undrafted.
Battaglia was originally projected to go quite a bit later then Frasca and had a totally different attitude and look how he benefited.
The fresh start could be very good for him and the team.