Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 3)

[ScoutLife4]

I think the difference is now is Cooper has someone to look to for guidance in assembling a team in Troy.
I personally don’t think Caputi was a capable HC that could offer much insight.
He looked absolutely lost on the bench.

There was no structure to anything and he just spent the game yelling at the players.
Most of the stuff he would yell was common sense that should have already been instilled in the team like when to break out, when to reset the puck, when to wait for line change etc.
All shit that should have been addressed in practice.

This team is in very good hands with Manner. I still feel like the GM is still a bit green and learning but Cooper is an intelligent person that will figure it out eventually.

I’d like to see the F.O put a little more effort into evaluating before making trades as it was a common trend for Kingston to lose trades for several years. I do however think we have started to see improvement last year.

 

[GoFronts]

I think the difference is now is Cooper has someone to look to for guidance in assembling a team in Troy.
I personally don’t think Caputi was a capable HC that could offer much insight.
He looked absolutely lost on the bench.

There was no structure to anything and he just spent the game yelling at the players.
Most of the stuff he would yell was common sense that should have already been instilled in the team like when to break out, when to reset the puck, when to wait for line change etc.
All shit that should have been addressed in practice.

This team is in very good hands with Manner. I still feel like the GM is still a bit green and learning but Cooper is an intelligent person that will figure it out eventually.

I’d like to see the F.O put a little more effort into evaluating before making trades as it was a common trend for Kingston to lose trades for several years. I do however think we have started to see improvement last year.

I cannot tell you how happy I was that Caputi was gone simply for the fact that I could go sit in the stands at a game and not hear him screaming the entire time. That alone was worth him getting canned.

I feel like since Cooper and Mann have a previous relationship they'll lean heavily on one another and work as a tandem to construct their roster from now on. You could tell since Mann took over there were certain guys that he just didn't like. Thibodeau was one of them, and I feel like Miedema, Chromiak, and Frasca could be thrown into that as well.

I'm just happy that it seems like we have a GM/Coach combo that see eye to eye and that Springer is opening the cheque book to pay a HC of that caliber. People are quick to freak out over moves like this and call back to years of mismanagement but it genuinely feels like this is a clean slate and a management group that can actually start building a good and attractive program. Having Mann at the helm is attractive enough, I've already heard of players wanting to come to Kingston just because he's behind the bench and committed to the organization for a few years. Mann is such a valuable asset.

 

[frontsfan67]

I cannot tell you how happy I was that Caputi was gone simply for the fact that I could go sit in the stands at a game and not hear him screaming the entire time. That alone was worth him getting canned.

I feel like since Cooper and Mann have a previous relationship they'll lean heavily on one another and work as a tandem to construct their roster from now on. You could tell since Mann took over there were certain guys that he just didn't like. Thibodeau was one of them, and I feel like Miedema, Chromiak, and Frasca could be thrown into that as well.

I'm just happy that it seems like we have a GM/Coach combo that see eye to eye and that Springer is opening the cheque book to pay a HC of that caliber. People are quick to freak out over moves like this and call back to years of mismanagement but it genuinely feels like this is a clean slate and a management group that can actually start building a good and attractive program. Having Mann at the helm is attractive enough, I've already heard of players wanting to come to Kingston just because he's behind the bench and committed to the organization for a few years. Mann is such a valuable asset.

I agree. Also a coach like Mann will help bring out the best in players and won’t be afraid to put you on the 4th line. Caputi just yelled the whole time and never had much of a system, and certainly no discipline.

I’d love to see some players like wright and soto(for his whole career) with a good coach like Mann.

Wright is turning out good but I feel he could’ve been so much better with Mann instead of Caputi.

Soto showed so much promise his rookie year and with Caputi he never took off. And then last year with Mann he had a career year AND learned both sides of the puck- something he never did the previous 2 years.

Because of Mann and his track record I’d love to see the big jumps in guys like Hopkins, Soto (again), and Miedema (finally now that he probably has found his role with the team from the playoffs, playing the most engaged hockey I’ve seen from him in a Kingston jersey)

 

[beastintheeast]

I think they have gotten a lot better today but I do also think they’ve wasted a lot of those picks. I like Thibodeau but never would’ve thought of him going for 7 picks. With him gone I wonder who moved up in depth chart. He was probably going to be a first/second liner.

Hopefully Hopkins plays more that would be my vote.

frankly I really do not think that flint gave up very much for him. Most of he picks are real late and are of no use except if you have a package that is not that hot and need to add

I see Flint as an also ran that is building.

This trade had nothing to do with gaining and a lot to do with getting rid of.

If it was about gaining then they would have got a higher pick they could have used next year

I expect that Chromiak and possibly Salajko will be next

It would be ANOTHER UNFORCED ERROR for Kingston to go into the Euro and not have a pick

 

[dirty12]

frankly I really do not think that flint gave up very much for him. Most of he picks are real late and are of no use except if you have a package that is not that hot and need to add

I see Flint as an also ran that is building.

This trade had nothing to do with gaining and a lot to do with getting rid of.

If it was about gaining then they would have got a higher pick they could have used next year

I expect that Chromiak and possibly Salajko will be next

It would be ANOTHER UNFORCED ERROR for Kingston to go into the Euro and not have a pick

Kingston can protect NHL signed Pieniniemi and Chromiak, and make an import selection.
Flint should end up as the west division leader and #2 seed, hardly also-ran.

 

[beastintheeast]

Kingston can protect NHL signed Pieniniemi and Chromiak, and make an import selection.
Flint should end up as the west division leader and #2 seed, hardly also-ran.

Pien OK but they can not protect Chromiak He isnot drafted and there is no way he will be drafted.

Flint may do better than I think but this was still a taking out the trash trade

No matter what Cooper had better make sure tht the player he drafts is 100% guaranteed to show. The last thing he needs is to mess up both the Intl and OHL drafts

 

[leafs4life94]

I don't know why but I have a feeling that they're going to go into next year with the same goalie tandem of Vaccari/Salajko - then see how Vaccari plays at the start of the year and determine from there if they need to make a goalie move at the deadline. Cooper's article in the Whig made it sound like he's expecting Betts to have a year in Jr A/B before getting OHL time - but obviously if he impresses at camp he'll be given a shot.

As for more trades - I'd have to think Williamson, Chromiak and potentially someone like Cavallin are candidates to be moved. Miedema will have to prove that he can continue to play the way he did down the stretch and into the playoffs - the change in playstyle felt very influenced by Mann.

Pien OK but they can not protect Chromiak He isnot drafted and there is no way he will be drafted.

Flint may do better than I think but this was still a taking out the trash trade

No matter what Cooper had better make sure tht the player he drafts is 100% guaranteed to show. The last thing he needs is to mess up both the Intl and OHL drafts

I think he means NHL Signed Pieniniemi is import #1, Chromiak is import #2 and then because Pieniniemi is signed, they can still draft import #3 - I read it the other way at first too.

 

[frontsfan67]

I don't know why but I have a feeling that they're going to go into next year with the same goalie tandem of Vaccari/Salajko - then see how Vaccari plays at the start of the year and determine from there if they need to make a goalie move at the deadline. Cooper's article in the Whig made it sound like he's expecting Betts to have a year in Jr A/B before getting OHL time - but obviously if he impresses at camp he'll be given a shot.

I agree. 16 year old goalies usually need more development and he won’t play much with vaccari starting. GOJHL, OJHL would be better to start, and if he does exceptional there bring him up for a few games. I’m sure for preseason vaccari gets 1 game and salajko and Betts battle out the rest of pre season

As for more trades - I'd have to think Williamson, Chromiak and potentially someone like Cavallin are candidates to be moved. Miedema will have to prove that he can continue to play the way he did down the stretch and into the playoffs - the change in playstyle felt very influenced by Mann.

chromiak I think gets put back in import draft this year and goes to some other CHL team.

Cavallin I agree gets moved unless he is okay 4th line/13th forward again

Yes Miedema has to play that game for him and the team to have success.

I think he means NHL Signed Pieniniemi is import #1, Chromiak is import #2 and then because Pieniniemi is signed, they can still draft import #3 - I read it the other way at first too.

That’s correct they can draft a 3rd guy thanks to that. Can draft 2 if they release chromiak I believe

 

[ScoutLife4]

I don't know why but I have a feeling that they're going to go into next year with the same goalie tandem of Vaccari/Salajko - then see how Vaccari plays at the start of the year and determine from there if they need to make a goalie move at the deadline. Cooper's article in the Whig made it sound like he's expecting Betts to have a year in Jr A/B before getting OHL time - but obviously if he impresses at camp he'll be given a shot.

As for more trades - I'd have to think Williamson, Chromiak and potentially someone like Cavallin are candidates to be moved. Miedema will have to prove that he can continue to play the way he did down the stretch and into the playoffs - the change in playstyle felt very influenced by Mann.


I think he means NHL Signed Pieniniemi is import #1, Chromiak is import #2 and then because Pieniniemi is signed, they can still draft import #3 - I read it the other way at first too.

Don't forget about Hemstrom as an Import too.
I feel like they keep Hemmy over Chromiak.

Betts is not playing in kingston this season hes playing Jr A is what i was told.
Vaccari appears to be Coopers project that he is not ready to throw the towel in on yet.

 

[leafs4life94]

Don't forget about Hemstrom as an Import too.
I feel like they keep Hemmy over Chromiak.

Betts is not playing in kingston this season hes playing Jr A is what i was told.
Vaccari appears to be Coopers project that he is not ready to throw the towel in on yet.

I'm basing everything off the assumption that Hemstrom is out on the basis of him being an OA Import but with their OA situation being as wide open as it is, it definitely is possible they keep him, at least to start the season.

 

[GoFronts]

If they come back with Salajko that's a huge mistake. One or two good games at the end of the season does not excuse his horrendous play overall. Just never looked comfortable in the net. Nothing personal against the guy but if we're trying to be competitive there has to be an upgrade in the net. 1A/1B situation with Vaccari would definitely make the most sense.

 

[frontsfan67]

Don't forget about Hemstrom as an Import too.
I feel like they keep Hemmy over Chromiak.

Betts is not playing in kingston this season hes playing Jr A is what i was told.
Vaccari appears to be Coopers project that he is not ready to throw the towel in on yet.

With 3 potential OA spots open I’d love if they used the import OA on hemstrom but I think there’s a low chance of that. Last guy fronts had like that was Phillip grubauer because his nhl team wanted him to stay another year I believe

Makes sense about Betts. Vaccari even though he got the team Canada nod didn’t play in Kingston as a 16 year old.

I wonder if they keep salajko this season and then Betts next year as a 17 year old plays backup to OA vaccari. Or I wonder if they make a move for a goalie whether an OA or import.

The upcoming import draft will probably shed some light on this

 

[HockeyPops]

So is Kingston retooling this season then?

 

[ScoutLife4]

With 3 potential OA spots open I’d love if they used the import OA on hemstrom but I think there’s a low chance of that. Last guy fronts had like that was Phillip grubauer because his nhl team wanted him to stay another year I believe

Makes sense about Betts. Vaccari even though he got the team Canada nod didn’t play in Kingston as a 16 year old.

I wonder if they keep salajko this season and then Betts next year as a 17 year old plays backup to OA vaccari. Or I wonder if they make a move for a goalie whether an OA or import.

The upcoming import draft will probably shed some light on this

I think its most likely he returns.
He was a glue guy in the dressing room and the staff really likes him.
I think we see Hemmy and Pieniniemi

 

[frontsfan67]

So is Kingston retooling this season then?

Believe they’re definitely buyers. That Thibodeau move is probably getting the dad out that has apparently caused problems. Also helps their 05 situation for the year after.

They’ll likely use some of those picks to go out and acquire some solid OA’s. Don’t know if they go out and get some 05s like Rehkopf, Romani, Barlow etc but could definitely see a few top OA’s to go with us getting a Finnish stay at home RHD that played pro this past season and likely another impact import from the draft whether it’s a goalie, LW or another d man.

First thing they gotta worry about is their import draft, let’s see what they get then and then after that I’m sure they’ll be looking at OA’s.

Year after is probably a retool year with the assumption of 2 first round picks

I think its most likely he returns.
He was a glue guy in the dressing room and the staff really likes him.
I think we see Hemmy and Pieniniemi

I would welcome that with open arms. That would solve one of our OA issues. Then they would have to worry about a goalie and a OA RHD.

I assume they probably pick a flyer on a guy in the first round here that can play next year then. they can’t make that second pick can they?

 

[leafs4life94]

They’ll likely use some of those picks to go out and acquire some solid OA’s. Don’t know if they go out and get some 05s like Rehkopf, Romani, Barlow etc but could definitely see a few top OA’s to go with us getting a Finnish stay at home RHD that played pro this past season and likely another impact import from the draft whether it’s a goalie, LW or another d man.

FYI - Pieniniemi is a LHD. Not sure if he can play off hand but he shoots left.

I'm not sure they have the resources (except Hopkins - who I think they should keep) to make a move for one of the high-high-end '05s. This is where not having an '08 to move is going to hurt the most - they'll have picks to go after an impact OA - and if Hemstrom is back, that's only 2 spots they need to fill.

Right now they have 4 2s, 7 3s and 5 4s in the next 4 years - probably the third best draft cupboard among prospective buyers in the East behind Brantford (10 2s, 8 3s, 5 4s) and Mississauga (8 2s, 4 3s, 6 4s).

I assume they probably pick a flyer on a guy in the first round here that can play next year then. they can’t make that second pick can they?

Yeah that's my understanding.

I'm fully on board with that - take an '07 or '08 (whatever the youngest age you can select is) as a longshot and hope whatever NHL team drafts him wants him in the OHL and they can get a multi-year player.

 

[dirty12]

FYI - Pieniniemi is a LHD. Not sure if he can play off hand but he shoots left.

I'm not sure they have the resources (except Hopkins - who I think they should keep) to make a move for one of the high-high-end '05s. This is where not having an '08 to move is going to hurt the most - they'll have picks to go after an impact OA - and if Hemstrom is back, that's only 2 spots they need to fill.

Right now they have 4 2s, 7 3s and 5 4s in the next 4 years - probably the third best draft cupboard among prospective buyers in the East behind Brantford (10 2s, 8 3s, 5 4s) and Mississauga (8 2s, 4 3s, 6 4s).

Yeah that's my understanding.

I'm fully on board with that - take an '07 or '08 (whatever the youngest age you can select is) as a longshot and hope whatever NHL team drafts him wants him in the OHL and they can get a multi-year player.

Sudbury and Niagara have more picks, and Barrie is about equal to Kingston

 

[leafs4life94]

Sudbury and Niagara have more picks, and possibly Barrie is about equal to Kingston

True I forgot about all of Sudbury's picks now.

Whether either Sudbury or Niagara do a heavy buy this year is a different story - Sudbury seems to depend on whether players are returned and without looking at their roster my gut says Niagara is more built for a run next year.

 

[frontsfan67]

FYI - Pieniniemi is a LHD. Not sure if he can play off hand but he shoots left.

My bad. Yes you are correct.

I'm not sure they have the resources (except Hopkins - who I think they should keep) to make a move for one of the high-high-end '05s. This is where not having an '08 to move is going to hurt the most - they'll have picks to go after an impact OA - and if Hemstrom is back, that's only 2 spots they need to fill.

True. I wonder if they ship weir somewhere. He’s probably got some value but will have to play a bit first to show it.

Right now they have 4 2s, 7 3s and 5 4s in the next 4 years - probably the third best draft cupboard among prospective buyers in the East behind Brantford (10 2s, 8 3s, 5 4s) and Mississauga (8 2s, 4 3s, 6 4s).

Wow! Didn’t know Brantford had 10 2nd rounders and 8 3rd rounders- unreal. If they want to they can make some SERIOUS moves here.

True I forgot about all of Sudbury's picks now.

Whether either Sudbury or Niagara do a heavy buy this year is a different story - Sudbury seems to depend on whether players are returned and without looking at their roster my gut says Niagara is more built for a run next year.

Sudbury is also losing a lot of people too. So imo our pick situation is way better as we are potentially only losing Poole, Heyes, Schmidt, Holmes and maybe ludwinski but I think they keep his rights until January just in case.

Yes Niagara will probably be a serious contender in the east in 2025/2026 (roobroecks draft year) I wonder if roobroeck grows a bit this off season. Brother is 6’7. He’s only 6’2 but has a late birthday

 

[dirty12]

My bad. Yes you are correct.

True. I wonder if they ship weir somewhere. He’s probably got some value but will have to play a bit first to show it.

Weir is probably wanted by several teams, NB and Niagara in particular I think. His value might be higher now than after a few months on the fourth line.

Wow! Didn’t know Brantford had 10 2nd rounders and 8 3rd rounders- unreal. If they want to they can make some SERIOUS moves here.


Sudbury is also losing a lot of people too. So imo our pick situation is way better as we are potentially only losing Poole, Heyes, Schmidt, Holmes and maybe ludwinski but I think they keep his rights until January just in case.

The wolves will still add picks trading VanVliet, maybe Vandenberg. They will have more picks than any other team except Brantford.

Yes Niagara will probably be a serious contender in the east in 2025/2026 (roobroecks draft year) I wonder if roobroeck grows a bit this off season. Brother is 6’7. He’s only 6’2 but has a late birthday

 

[frontsfan67]

Weir is probably wanted by several teams, NB and Niagara in particular I think. His value might be higher now than after a few months on the fourth line.

I see him starting on third, maybe slight chance second now with Thibodeau gone and on pp2 for sure. I think Kingston will want to see him until November at the very least before they make any decisions they could regret

The wolves will still add picks trading VanVliet, maybe Vandenberg. They will have more picks than any other team except Brantford.

You won’t get many picks for those guys. Vanvliet maybe 6th round pick? Vandenberg maybe a 4th? Don’t think they’re too valuable. Too many OA’s better than them even on their own team.

 

[dirty12]

I see him starting on third, maybe slight chance second now with Thibodeau gone and on pp2 for sure. I think Kingston will want to see him until November at the very least before they make any decisions they could regret

You won’t get many picks for those guys. Vanvliet maybe 6th round pick? Vandenberg maybe a 4th? Don’t think they’re too valuable. Too many OA’s better than them even on their own team.

probably a lot of OA LD available, but I think a 6th for VanVliet is way off.

 

[frontsfan67]

probably a lot of OA LD available, but I think a 6th for VanVliet is way off.

What do you think vanvliets value is then?? He’s definitely far from an impact d. Maybe the 4th, 5th or 6th best d on a contender

 

[beastintheeast]

I agree. 16 year old goalies usually need more development and he won’t play much with vaccari starting. GOJHL, OJHL would be better to start, and if he does exceptional there bring him up for a few games. I’m sure for preseason vaccari gets 1 game and salajko and Betts battle out the rest of pre season

chromiak I think gets put back in import draft this year and goes to some other CHL team.

Cavallin I agree gets moved unless he is okay 4th line/13th forward again

Yes Miedema has to play that game for him and the team to have success.

That’s correct they can draft a 3rd guy thanks to that. Can draft 2 if they release chromiak I believe

I agree to send Betts to either GOJHL or CCHL, depending on who will work with them. Nelson is the perfect example of why that makes sense. I disagree with starting with the same tandem unless Salajko has made huge changes to his game. If you wait too long, you end up with what you had last year, and that was not good for the tumour for Vaccari. He needs to know that if he is sick or not up to par the whole world does not depend on him that the BU can go in and play well.

Cooper has to get off the pot and make the call on Chromiak to either trade him if there is anyone interested or simply release him.

If you assume Pien is coming here, the simple solution is to find a player who will be a definite Front-Runner and draft him with #1. If he is a maybe at best, drop Chromiak and find 2 good players who will come here and play. Cooper CAN NOT leave this draft without a first-round pick reporting, or he should be fired.


Williamson is an enigma who searched for RHD, and when he played real minutes, he showed a lot as a rookie. I am looking at him showing more and being a leader in a couple of years.

 

[frontsfan67]

Cooper has to get off the pot and make the call on Chromiak to either trade him if there is anyone interested or simply release him.

I agree. No matter what happens they can’t have him back again. I think they release him as OHL gms should he smart enough to realize the situation and not give Kingston anything to work with- resulting in Kingston releasing him and some team snagging him for free in the draft as a re entry

If you assume Pien is coming here, the simple solution is to find a player who will be a definite Front-Runner and draft him with #1. If he is a maybe at best, drop Chromiak and find 2 good players who will come here and play. Cooper CAN NOT leave this draft without a first-round pick reporting, or he should be fired.

Beast I don’t know if you saw the messages above but they might be thinking of bringing hemstrom back as an OA/import. I’m not sure if I believe that- I’ll believe it when I see it but I would be open to that move. Solve the winger problem and you get a great locker room guy back for another year- and a big part of the team.

Williamson is an enigma who searched for RHD, and when he played real minutes, he showed a lot as a rookie. I am looking at him showing more and being a leader in a couple of years.

I think he’s gonna be great. Just don’t know if it will be with us. We may load up this year and he gets left on the third d line as an 18 year old. Not great for his development and in that case I wouldn’t be surprised to see him ask for a trade to a team where he can play(and trade inevitably backfires on Kingston like Ethan Ritchie one)