LeBrun: Kings want 1st-round pick, prospect for Muzzin

[10Ducky10]

If Muzzin’s your best defenseman, you’re in trouble. If Muzzin is your second-best defenseman, you’ve got a great top pair. If Muzzin is your third-best defenseman, you probably have one of the best defenses in the league.

He might be the 4th best on the Jets....Preds too.

 

[raswilliam]

Well, that's certainly debatable. He was legendary on these boards for his once per game boneheaded turnovers or questionable decision making. Scuderi, Mitchell, Voynov, Greene and Regehr were all better all around defensemen and that's why they won the SC. .

Regehr played 8 games in the 2014 playoffs and did not play at all in the finals. Scuderi was a penguin in 2014.

 

[kilowatt]

He might be the 4th best on the Jets....Preds too.

Yeah, maybe. And those defenses with Muzzin would be unbelievable.

 

[VanJack]

The chances of any team giving up a first rounder and top prospect for Muzzin, are basically 'zero'. If the Kings are serious about moving him they'll have to scale back the demands.

 

[10Ducky10]

Yeah, maybe. And those defenses with Muzzin would be unbelievable.

1st in 2019, Mathieu Perreault and Brendan Lemieux for Muzzin and a 3rd?

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Not enough.

Too much.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Pens could give up a 1st and a prospect for Muzzin.

I don't know what prospect position they need most though.

I wouldn’t mind it either. 1st and a prospect and then trade Maatta and you get much of that right back.

Dumoulin-Letang
Muzzin-Schultz

Now that would be a fantastic top 4 and our top 2 lines would be that much better with the great transition game they would get from the first pass from those defenseman.

I actually think Maatta would get a pretty nice 3C by himself. So trade 1st and a prospect for Muzzin and then trade Maatta for 3C. Then trade Brassard for 1st.

After all those transactions Pens end up with a better 1st round pick most likely and upgrade at defense and 3C for one prospect. Sounds like a plan.

I actually thought a lot about the Pens earlier thinking Muzzin would be nails with Letang but forgot about Schultz too.

Your characterization of my researched argument as an "out-of-context rant" is extremely unfair. It's fair that I dislike Muzzin, but I'm not the one repeatedly fighting with and insulting people who disagree with me. If anyone is "ranting" in this thread, it's you, to be honest. Take my arguments with a grain of salt if you wish, but I don't see why your arguments should be taken with any less.

The reasons why don't matter as much to fans of potential buyers. The fact that he hasn't been a 1st-pairing defenseman for years is going to make some hesitant to give up a #2D-worthy package. That's just the way that it is.

It's out of context because you simply go "see he's playing different competition" without saying why, who he was playing with, where he was starting, how the team did, and focusing only on plus/minus without looking at corsi, points, or really anything but raw GA. That doesn't a picture paint, so when someone cites that as evidence for Muzzin's current value somehow, yeah I'm going to call that bullcrap. For example, Kings didn't have to worry much about 'shutdown' minutes back in the Cup days because they had depth; when they had to start re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic,

The reasons why do matter because he's a #2 d-man playing in a different role. That doesn't make him 'not a 1st pairing dman' in ability, just that the team utilizes him differently because they're broken and stupid. Do you guys really believe GMs don't investigate this stuff, that your dishonest misrepresentations are fact? That, say, Toronto is gonna look at him and go "mmm, no, he's on the 2nd pairing, can't be a top-pairing dman" even though he's got first-pairing history with results, the 2nd toi/gp on the Kings D, full range special teams usage, etc.? He's simply not on the first pairing because Doughty has proven over the years e can play anywhere no matter what anchor you saddle him with, while Muzzin isn't an elite #1 d-man, so he gets a 2nd-pairing partner instead of crippling the d by rolling Doughty-Muzzin / Martinez-Fantenberg / Phaneuf-Forbort. Why is that so hard to understand? Did we not see how hard Martinez-Fantenberg got caved in in Game 2 of the playoffs last year with harder minutes? That was Fantenberg's best game of his career and the BETTER of the two was Martinez with a 34% CF%. Fantenberg was a 27%! I'm only getting worked up because you and tomd BOTH know better, but you're here being deliberately obtuse, so I figure the crowd needs to know the truth.

I haven't seen so many used car sales pitches in a thread since the days of Ryder, Halak, and a 2nd.

I'm done in this thread, just gonna say keep bashing Muzzin, he'll make some team really happy, and they'll probably come back and make fun of us for how cheap they got him.

 

[kilowatt]

1st in 2019, Mathieu Perreault and Brendan Lemieux for Muzzin and a 3rd?

I’d probably do it. Don’t think the Kings need to send a third back though.

 

[notsocommonsense]

The chances of any team giving up a first rounder and top prospect for Muzzin, are basically 'zero'. If the Kings are serious about moving him they'll have to scale back the demands.

A playoff team giving up a late first and a prospect seems like the proper value to me

This isn’t likely a top ten pick we’re taking about

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well, Namestnikov has 16 pts in 44 games and Miller has 27 in 43. I value the guy that has 11 more points in one fewer game.

Minuscule difference in value in the end.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I largely agree but the 1st will almost certainly be in the 23-31 range since I don't think a bubble team will trade a 1st for him (but we'll see). I think the prospect will be a B prospect (probably 6-10 on the team's list) along with the late 1st.

We see it the same. What about a better prospect and two 2nd's? Isn't that close to the same value? Not saying Muzzin don't deserve a 1st but not even Patch got a 1st in his sign and trade return. Not many teams are willing to trade a 1st these days. Maybe the Leafs do though. Not sure.

- Ylonen. Drafted 35th OA in last draft and trending well. What's the difference between 23-31 vs 35 on a guy you get to see how he is developing in his draft +1 year?
- 1st (23-31) vs two 2nd's (50 ish range).

For the record, There are plenty of Habs fans that prefer not to trade for Muzzin cause they want us to focus on the future more than our current team. I'm just talking about what the Habs would give if we were in on Muzzin. Examples and supply and demand always sets the price for guys close to UFA. I'm not sure Bergevin is willing to sell futures like this at this point. Hard to predict.

 

[Habs Halifax]

First, fine no prob.

Real good prospect? The only two that are hard to pry out of here are Lil and Sandin, and thats only because they fill a spot where we have a massive hole. Anyone else Im down. If it has to be one of those two, Im out, only for the reason stated above.

Im not sure what names have been thrown about in the thread but those are the only two I would prefer to keep, unless it was for a top tier guy. Which won't be available.

Leafs fans need to explain why they would want to acquire a LD when they are looking for a RD. LD already has Rielly, Gardiner, Dermott, and Sandin. Gardiner might be gone next year but the LD side don't appear to be an issue. Is someone moving to the RD side?

What would be the plan? Acquire Muzzin and trade Gardiner?

 

[Liferleafer]

We see it the same. What about a better prospect and two 2nd's? Isn't that close to the same value?

- Ylonen. Drafted 35th OA in last draft and trending well. What's the difference between 23-31 vs 35 on a guy you get to see how he is developing in his draft +1 year?
- 1st (23-31) vs two 2nd's (50 ish range).

For the record, There are plenty of Habs fans that prefer not to trade for Muzzin cause they want us to focus on the future more than our current team. I'm just talking about what the Habs would give if we were in on Muzzin. Examples and supply and demand always sets the price for guys close to UFA. I'm not sure Bergevin is willing to sell futures like this at this point. Hard to predict.

Well...LA fans are asking for Liljegren (drafted 17th) or Sandin (29th) as well as our 1st....so i am looking forward to the answer to this question.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

1st and either kapaenen or liljregren

Eww.

1st this year, next years first if we a cup becomes second if not.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

Leafs fans need to explain why they would want to acquire a LD when they are looking for a RD. LD already has Rielly, Gardiner, Dermott, and Sandin. Gardiner might be gone next year but the LD side don't appear to be an issue. Is someone moving to the RD side?

What would be the plan? Acquire Muzzin and trade Gardiner?

The plan is getting D, Lhd rhd is overblown big time. Muzzin can do all the things we need, hell he use a rhd stick if it makes the hf nerds happier, we need him and id do a first this year and a second next that becomes a first if we win the cup this year

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well...LA fans are asking for Liljegren (drafted 17th) or Sandin (29th) as well as our 1st....so i am looking forward to the answer to this question.

I doubt the Leafs trade Sandin. I like him a lot and even before the draft. Never was high on Liljegren. Hard to evaluate him and he's going through injuries correct?

What is the thoughts going on the Leafs board about Muzzin (LD for 1.5 years) for the 1st (23-31 range) and Liljegren? I'm guess the plan is to trade Gardiner for another pick? Or are the Leafs even in on Muzzin and trying to get a RD instead?

If the Habs offer Ylonen and two 2nd's (big if based on our team direction) it's a solid offer. Does a 1st and Liljegren trump it? That depends on what the Kings are after I guess. The 1st is nice but if a team was trading down on draft day, two 2nd's for a late first is usually the price (+/-).

 

[Skin Tape Session]

Well...LA fans are asking for Liljegren (drafted 17th) or Sandin (29th) as well as our 1st....so i am looking forward to the answer to this question.

The only thing they are gettin out of that is a first. Lilly and Sandin are not avail at all, esp not for muzzin. Doughty on the other hand

 

[Habs Halifax]

The plan is getting D, Lhd rhd is overblown big time. Muzzin can do all the things we need, hell he use a rhd stick if it makes the hf nerds happier, we need him and id do a first this year and a second next that becomes a first if we win the cup this year

LD vs RD is not overblown. The leafs are looking for a RD just as hard as the Habs are looking for a LD. And the Leafs have Hainsey who won't be around forever. If you make this move, who is being moved to play on the right side or are you trading Gardiner?

With Gardiner traded:
Rielly / Hainsey
Muzzin / Zaitsev
Dermott / Ozhiganov

With both Gardiner and Muzzin ????:
Rielly / Muzzin
Gardiner / Hainsey
Dermott / Zaitsev

Next year with Gardiner and Hainsey gone and with Muzzin???
Rielly / ????
Muzzin / Zaitsev
Dermott / Ozhoganov

Where do you put Sandin cause I think he will be close to NHL ready. I'm not so sure Muzzin is a good fit today and for the future based on the depth chart. Just how it looks to me.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The only thing they are gettin out of that is a first. Lilly and Sandin are not avail at all, esp not for muzzin. Doughty on the other hand

So a 1st and then who as a prospect? Habs will not be trading our top prospects we need as well and I say one of Ylonen, Juulsen, Fleury. So who would the leafs put on the table that you feel the Kings would want? Many Habs fans prefer not to trade any of Ylonen, Fleury, or Juulsen or our 2nd's.

I see talk about the Habs and Leafs possibly interested. What other teams are interested? Supply and demand sets the price.

 

[branch]

I doubt the Leafs trade Sandin. I like him a lot and even before the draft. Never was high on Liljegren. Hard to evaluate him and he's going through injuries correct?

What is the thoughts going on the Leafs board about Muzzin (LD for 1.5 years) for the 1st (23-31 range) and Liljegren? I'm guess the plan is to trade Gardiner for another pick? Or are the Leafs even in on Muzzin and trying to get a RD instead?

If the Habs offer Ylonen and two 2nd's (big if based on our team direction) it's a solid offer. Does a 1st and Liljegren trump it? That depends on what the Kings are after I guess. The 1st is nice but if a team was trading down on draft day, two 2nd's for a late first is usually the price (+/-).

1st and Liljegren >>>>>>>> Ylonen and 2nds based purely on quantity over quality.

 

[KingsHockey24]

LD vs RD is not overblown. The leafs are looking for a RD just as hard as the Habs are looking for a LD. And the Leafs have Hainsey who won't be around forever. If you make this move, who is being moved to play on the right side or are you trading Gardiner?

With Gardiner traded:
Rielly / Hainsey
Muzzin / Zaitsev
Dermott / Ozhiganov

With both Gardiner and Muzzin ????:
Rielly / Muzzin
Gardiner / Hainsey
Dermott / Zaitsev

Next year with Gardiner and Hainsey gone and with Muzzin???
Rielly / ????
Muzzin / Zaitsev
Dermott / Ozhoganov

Where do you put Sandin cause I think he will be close to NHL ready. I'm not so sure Muzzin is a good fit today and for the future based on the depth chart. Just how it looks to me.

If Rielly is capable of playing on the right side you definitely want him paired with Muzzin.

Muzzin is a first pairing defensemen.

 

[Habs Halifax]

1st and Liljegren >>>>>>>> Ylonen and 2nds based purely on quantity over quality.

We disagree.

- Liljegren vs Ylonen. Very close value and Ylonen had a great world juniors. Liljegren is fighting an injury and not trending as well as you would like. Draft position means nothing in development years after being drafted. Take Puljujarvi for example... Do you think he is worth a 1st at this stage?

- Late 1st (23-31 range) vs two 2nd's (50 ish range). Depending on how deep this draft year is (Kings scouts will know this), the two 2nd's could be very attractive. 2 for 1 deal where the value from 23-50 is minuscule in that part of the draft. Just comes down to how deep the scouts feel it is.

Showing multiple >>> means nothing.

 

[Liferleafer]

LD vs RD is not overblown. The leafs are looking for a RD just as hard as the Habs are looking for a LD. And the Leafs have Hainsey who won't be around forever. If you make this move, who is being moved to play on the right side or are you trading Gardiner?

With Gardiner traded:
Rielly / Hainsey
Muzzin / Zaitsev
Dermott / Ozhiganov

With both Gardiner and Muzzin ????:
Rielly / Muzzin
Gardiner / Hainsey
Dermott / Zaitsev

Next year with Gardiner and Hainsey gone and with Muzzin???
Rielly / ????
Muzzin / Zaitsev
Dermott / Ozhoganov

Where do you put Sandin cause I think he will be close to NHL ready. I'm not so sure Muzzin is a good fit today and for the future based on the depth chart. Just how it looks to me.

If Rielly Muzzin works now, why change that? So...
Rielly-Muzzin
Dermott-Zaitsev
Sandin-Liljegren/Oz

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Rielly is capable of playing on the right side you definitely want him paired with Muzzin.

Muzzin is a first pairing defensemen.

Muzzin = Petry in terms of value. They are close. They are below average top pairing guys and above average top 4D guys IMO.

If Muzzin is a first pairing D man, why don't the kings play him with Doughty like you have plans to play him with Rielly?

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Rielly Muzzin works now, why change that? So...
Rielly-Muzzin
Dermott-Zaitsev
Sandin-Liljegren/Oz

Interesting... that's why I asked. If Muzzin can play RD effectively, then you guys should do it. But how are you acquiring Muzzin with a 1st and who as a prospect? If not Sandin and Liljegren?

Help the Kings out... what prospects are you putting on the table?