LeBrun: Kings want 1st-round pick, prospect for Muzzin

[Raccoon Jesus]

What are you talking about? They've played with each other for years. Just because they're separated now doesn't mean the bulk of Muzzin's career hasn't been beside Doughty. And look at how good the Kings are now that they're separated. We don't have a Doughty in Toronto to pump up Muzzin.

Because that's objectively wrong. Since the 2014 Cup and our subsequent departures, Muzzin has played more than twice the icetime with Martinez as he has with Doughty, and that's also not counting the other assortment of misfits we've tried out in the top-4.

Ultimately it's splitting hairs but I take issue with it because you're suggesting that Muzzin was only good because great team--which I factually rebut--and then only because he's a passenger to DD--which I factually rebut.

 

[tomd]

No, because it was literally just an out-of-context rant about literally only his competition from a guy who has had a serial dislike for Muzzin.

I know you like when you think people do your homework for you, but maybe you should critically think for yourself instead of going on an ignorance piggyback ride.

Yes, consider his deployment, I always say that and you know it, but on a bottom-run possession team, here are your Muzzin advanced stats: 50.45% CF% (3.79 rel, tops on LA D), 59.02 GF% (18.02 rel, tops on LA period), 42.29% ozone starts (lowest amongst regular Kings' dmen).

He's only played 75 minutes with DD. He's played over twice that with arguably-worst-dman-in-the-league Sean Walker, and 520 minutes with Alec Martinez.

For your reference.

So it sounds like you don't think he can anchor a 2nd pairing line with anyone but an all-star. That's troubling.

 

[bleuetbio]

I would not pay the asking price but I think its realy possible that we'll see a Mcdonagh's volume 2. Muzzin by himself isnt a missing link to something and LA needs a major shake up

 

[crassbonanza]

So it sounds like you don't think he can anchor a 2nd pairing line with anyone but an all-star. That's troubling.

What are you on about? Muzzin is a fantastic 2nd pairing defenseman that can also play on the top pair. Look at his relative stats throughout his career, he is second only to Doughty on the team by most metrics. Do you have something to back up your statement that you don't believe he can anchor a second pairing?

 

[tomd]

What are you on about? Muzzin is a fantastic 2nd pairing defenseman that can also play on the top pair. Look at his relative stats throughout his career, he is second only to Doughty on the team by most metrics. Do you have something to back up your statement that you don't believe he can anchor a second pairing?

I have consistently said on this thread and elsewhere that Muzzin is a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. Saying he can play on the top pair is meaningless since Derek f'ing Forbort plays every game on the top pair...does that mean he is a #1 or #2 defenseman? If Muzzin is your 1st or 2nd best defenseman then you probably can plan on making tee times in early April.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The Pens could give up a 1st and a prospect for Muzzin.

I don't know what prospect position they need most though.

 

[deaderhead28]

The Pens could give up a 1st and a prospect for Muzzin.

I don't know what prospect position they need most though.

Since your 1st is so late, it would take a very high proven prospect at the very lease.

 

[deaderhead28]

I have consistently said on this thread and elsewhere that Muzzin is a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. Saying he can play on the top pair is meaningless since Derek f'ing Forbort plays every game on the top pair...does that mean he is a #1 or #2 defenseman? If Muzzin is your 1st or 2nd best defenseman then you probably can plan on making tee times in early April.

You should really stop worrying about Kings players and go back to your quackers board.No one likes a bandwagon hopper.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Since your 1st is so late, it would take a very high proven prospect at the very lease.

The Pens 1st doesn't look to be too late this year, at least right now.

2018-19 NHL Standings | ESPN

One of the earliest you could get from a playoff team, actually.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

The Pens could give up a 1st and a prospect for Muzzin.

I don't know what prospect position they need most though.

I wouldn’t mind it either. 1st and a prospect and then trade Maatta and you get much of that right back.

Dumoulin-Letang
Muzzin-Schultz

Now that would be a fantastic top 4 and our top 2 lines would be that much better with the great transition game they would get from the first pass from those defenseman.

I actually think Maatta would get a pretty nice 3C by himself. So trade 1st and a prospect for Muzzin and then trade Maatta for 3C. Then trade Brassard for 1st.

After all those transactions Pens end up with a better 1st round pick most likely and upgrade at defense and 3C for one prospect. Sounds like a plan.

 

[tomd]

You should really stop worrying about Kings players and go back to your quackers board.No one likes a bandwagon hopper.

I've followed the Kings and hockey since 1973 and at this point in my life don't feel the need to live and die by any particular team. I follow both teams. If you take offense to sober analysis then that probably says more about you than it does me.

 

[member 88115]

my personal feeling is that the Kings should keep Muzzin since I think Blake would still prefer a retool to a rebuild. The Kings organizational depth on defense is just horrid and that is something that will takes years to repair if Muzzin is traded. I know the counter view is for the Kings to be as bad as possible for as long as possible and they have no problem icing AHL level talent at NHL level prices...as if that will fly in the LA market. Blake definitely has his work cut out for him.

While I respect hour point of view, I would disagree on resigning Muzzin. As Osprey said of $$$ it would take to resign him, but also the team is not winning enough to keep most of the second tier of stars, if any.

 

[Kingspiracy]

I followed the Kings since 1973 and at this point in my life don't feel the need to live and die by any particular team. I follow both teams. If you take offense to sober analysis then that probably says more about you than it does me.

Sober analysis? It usually comes across as negative nancyish to me. Surely you can see why when you vanish for our cup runs then return we are shit and bring your "sober" opinion.

Muzzin is a very good dman, he was great with doughty on the top pairing and is excellent to lead a 2nd pairing. Forbort sucks donkey dick on the top pairing. He would be better suited as a 3rd pairing guy.

btw there shouldn't be any sober analysis of kings players, because if you're not watching the games drunk this year, you're doing it wrong.

 

[raswilliam]

I have consistently said on this thread and elsewhere that Muzzin is a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. Saying he can play on the top pair is meaningless since Derek f'ing Forbort plays every game on the top pair...does that mean he is a #1 or #2 defenseman? If Muzzin is your 1st or 2nd best defenseman then you probably can plan on making tee times in early April.

Muzzin was a #2 Dman in the stanley cup finals in 2014

Rangers vs. Kings: Line-by-Line Breakdown for 2014 Stanley Cup Final

 

[tomd]

While I respect hour point of view, I would disagree on resigning Muzzin. As Osprey said of $$$ it would take to resign him, but also the team is not winning enough to keep most of the second tier of stars, if any.

I've no problem with your viewpoint. There can be legitimate differences of opinion. It will be interesting to see what Blake does.

 

[Osprey]

No, because it was literally just an out-of-context rant about literally only his competition from a guy who has had a serial dislike for Muzzin.

I know you like when you think people do your homework for you, but maybe you should critically think for yourself instead of going on an ignorance piggyback ride.

Yes, consider his deployment, I always say that and you know it, but on a bottom-run possession team, here are your Muzzin advanced stats: 50.45% CF% (3.79 rel, tops on LA D), 59.02 GF% (18.02 rel, tops on LA period), 42.29% ozone starts (lowest amongst regular Kings' dmen).

He's only played 75 minutes with DD. He's played over twice that with arguably-worst-dman-in-the-league Sean Walker, and 520 minutes with Alec Martinez.

For your reference.

Your characterization of my researched argument as an "out-of-context rant" is extremely unfair. It's fair that I dislike Muzzin, but I'm not the one repeatedly fighting with and insulting people who disagree with me. If anyone is "ranting" in this thread, it's you, to be honest. Take my arguments with a grain of salt if you wish, but I don't see why your arguments should be taken with any less.

You say he hasn't played that role in years, but you ignored the 'why' earlier in this thread--the evaporation of the depth behind him. LA feels his best usage is carrying a 2nd pairing with him and Martinez while saddling doughty with the corpse du jour; I obviously disagree. But he's by far the clear #2 d on LA in talent and SHOULD BE in role, they're just trying to mitigate the bleeding from elsewhere by using him to anchor a 2nd pairing isntead of using him next to Doughty.

The reasons why don't matter as much to fans of potential buyers. The fact that he hasn't been a 1st-pairing defenseman for years is going to make some hesitant to give up a #2D-worthy package. That's just the way that it is.

 

[tomd]

Muzzin was a #2 Dman in the stanley cup finals in 2014

Rangers vs. Kings: Line-by-Line Breakdown for 2014 Stanley Cup Final

And that matters in 2019 because?

 

[tomd]

Sober analysis? It usually comes across as negative nancyish to me. Surely you can see why when you vanish for our cup runs then return we are **** and bring your "sober" opinion.

Muzzin is a very good dman, he was great with doughty on the top pairing and is excellent to lead a 2nd pairing. Forbort sucks donkey dick on the top pairing. He would be better suited as a 3rd pairing guy.

btw there shouldn't be any sober analysis of kings players, because if you're not watching the games drunk this year, you're doing it wrong.

I've not criticized Muzzin...I've simply called him a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. That sounds like I'm saying he is "very good". As for my opinions, I took off the purple colored glasses years ago and I'm better for it.

 

[raswilliam]

If Muzzin is your 1st or 2nd best defenseman then you probably can plan on making tee times in early April.

5 years ago is was a #2 on a Stanley Cup winner.

 

[kovacro]

I've not criticized Muzzin...I've simply called him a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. That sounds like I'm saying he is "very good". As for my opinions, I took off the purple colored glasses years ago and I'm better for it.

 

[tomd]

5 years ago is was a #2 on a Stanley Cup winner.

Well, that's certainly debatable. He was legendary on these boards for his once per game boneheaded turnovers or questionable decision making. Scuderi, Mitchell, Voynov, Greene and Regehr were all better all around defensemen and that's why they won the SC. Muzzin had flashier numbers but the other guys were the glue to the defense. Again, not criticizing Muzzin, just being realistic. It was no coincidence that as the guys mentioned above disappeared quickly after 2014, the team's fortunes changed dramatically for the worse. Muzzin remaining didn't prevent that.

 

[member 88115]

Liljegren and Kapanen are two recent first rounders, and the first rounder is well, a first rounder. 3 first rounders.

Dude I'm confused. Which Kings fan asked for all those players?

 

[Kingspiracy]

I've not criticized Muzzin...I've simply called him a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. That sounds like I'm saying he is "very good". As for my opinions, I took off the purple colored glasses years ago and I'm better for it.

Ok, fair enough, but dragging forbort into your argument didn't help. You may have lost the purple glasses, it just seems like you've picked up a few feathers along the way.

 

[tomd]

Ok, fair enough, but dragging forbort into your argument didn't help. You may have lost the purple glasses, it just seems like you've picked up a few feathers along the way.

LOL...ok

 

[kilowatt]

I have consistently said on this thread and elsewhere that Muzzin is a solid 2nd pairing defenseman. Saying he can play on the top pair is meaningless since Derek f'ing Forbort plays every game on the top pair...does that mean he is a #1 or #2 defenseman? If Muzzin is your 1st or 2nd best defenseman then you probably can plan on making tee times in early April.

If Muzzin’s your best defenseman, you’re in trouble. If Muzzin is your second-best defenseman, you’ve got a great top pair. If Muzzin is your third-best defenseman, you probably have one of the best defenses in the league.