LeBrun: Kings want 1st-round pick, prospect for Muzzin

[The Winter Soldier]

1st and Liljegren >>>>>>>> Ylonen and 2nds based purely on quantity over quality.

Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin. If the Leafs continue to struggle as their most recent 3-7 stretch. The pressure will be turned up in a market like Toronto, and Dubas who folded in the Nylander negotiations, and he just traded a 5th rd pick for a AHL goalie that was a available as a UFA is a key indicator to me, he may make a bad move when he is backed into a corner. So the key here is if the Leafs remain on the pace of their last 20 games. They may bite on an overpayment proposal. Further Muzzin is going to draw many offers, so the Kings likely will get an overpayment anyway.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Muzzin = Petry in terms of value. They are close. They are below average top pairing guys and above average top 4D guys IMO.

If Muzzin is a first pairing D man, why don't the kings play him with Doughty like you have plans to play him with Rielly?

Alright the fact you just compared Muzzin to Petry tells me you don't know him at all.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Alright the fact you just compared Muzzin to Petry tells me you don't know him at all.

Value wise, not player styles. I know Muzzin's game. If I didn't, I wouldn't be interested in him.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Ylonen ( all speed and hand skills) + first from Mtl should be more than enough, not sure I would pay though.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ylonen ( all speed and hand skills) + first from Mtl should be more than enough, not sure I would pay though.

Habs 1st is off the table. It might be a lottery chance pick. If we trade our 1st, the prospect drops in value. Our 1st would be worth more than the Leafs or any other cup contender cause their 1st would be 10 picks later in the 1st round.

12-20 range vs 25-30 range. Major difference in value. Go look at bust potential starting at 15 for each draft year.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Habs 1st is off the table. It might be a lottery chance pick. If we trade our 1st, the prospect drops in value. Our 1st would be worth more than the Leafs or any other cup contender cause their 1st would be 10 picks later in the 1st round.

12-20 range vs 25-30 range. Major difference in value. Go look at bust potential starting at 15 for each draft year.

Well, at the trade deadline we will know where we will draft, but I doubt Mtl will have a top 15.

let's say top 16-20 + Ylonen for Muzzin ?
I don't like dealing the first but we could get back a first with Byron to Pitts for a 2019 first

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well, at the trade deadline we will know where we will draft, but I doubt Mtl will have a top 15.

let's say top 16-20 + Ylonen for Muzzin ?
I don't like dealing the first but we could get back a first with Byron to Pitts for a 2019 first

Habs will play 20 games from Feb 25th to the end of the year. That's 25% of the season. We won't know what our pick will be. Maybe we will have a better idea but I don't think we will be able to say with 100% confidence we make the playoffs on Feb 25th. Trading our 1st is risky. Very risky. Panthers were in on Patch last year and preferred not to trade the 1st for the exact reason. Teams that trade their 1st are the ones who are firmly planted in a top 2 or top 3 spot within their division.

I'm not willing to trade our 1st. If you push me to it, I would put conditions on it (top 10 protected) but it could turn into what happened to the Sens. If I do trade the 1st (12-20 range), the prospect will not be Ylonen. More like Hillis.

We are not in position to be desperate for Muzzin. If the Kings are serious about trading him, let them get their best offers and then we see if we want to beat it at the deadline. If the Leafs want to trade their 1st and Liljegren (doubt it but possible), let them.

 

[4thline]

Liljegren is fighting an injury and not trending as well as you would like.

Fighting an injury yes, otherwise trending just fine.

To paraphrase Dubas on the 17th
-very impressive in the AHL, playing top pair, 1st PP, 1st PK, pre injury was on track to have a shot at the big club later this season

He's a 19 year old defender, how else should he be tracking?

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Fighting an injury yes, otherwise trending just fine.

To paraphrase Dubas on the 17th
-very impressive in the AHL, playing top pair, 1st PP, 1st PK, pre injury was on track to have a shot at the big club later this season

He's a 19 year old defender, how else should he be tracking?

you just described Cale Fleury, but would you give him the same value as Lili ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Fighting an injury yes, otherwise trending just fine.

To paraphrase Dubas on the 17th
-very impressive in the AHL, playing top pair, 1st PP, 1st PK, pre injury was on track to have a shot at the big club later this season

He's a 19 year old defender, how else should he be tracking?

He's not trending terribly but he also not trending as well as Sandin. Curious, why did he play one ECHL game this year? What's the story behind that?

 

[Habs Halifax]

you just described Cale Fleury, but would you give him the same value as Lili ?

They will look at where they were drafted and laugh at you cause some ignore draft plus 1/2 years of development.

 

[4thline]

you just described Cale Fleury, but would you give him the same value as Lili ?

Would you?

 

[4thline]

He's not trending terribly but he also not trending as well as Sandin. Curious, why did he play one ECHL game this year? What's the story behind that?

Was thought to be game ready returning from injury but the Marlies had something like a 6 day layoff so they sent him for a conditioning stint to get some game action. Nothing to do with his play.

As to Sandin, he's been showing fantastically, and is doing more with the sheltered minutes Lilly got last year. That being said, Lilly progressed well from those sheltered minutes, developed his defensive game, and was playing well in a top pairing role before the ankle sprain. The massive difference in their value is media/fan driven nonsense based mostly on short attention spans and only one being at the WJC

 

[Habs Halifax]

Was thought to be game ready returning from injury but the Marlies had something like a 6 day layoff so they sent him for a conditioning stint to get some game action. Nothing to do with his play

Figured it was a conditioning stint. Lets see how he finishes the year.

 

[Liferleafer]

Interesting... that's why I asked. If Muzzin can play RD effectively, then you guys should do it. But how are you acquiring Muzzin with a 1st and who as a prospect? If not Sandin and Liljegren?

Help the Kings out... what prospects are you putting on the table?

Rosen, Bracco, Grundstrom....would add an extra pick (2nd/3rd) if need be. I get if the Kings pass, but Lil/Sandin are hopefully part of the future here.

That said, i will leave it to management to figure it out.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Would you?

I would, ya

 

[KingsHockey24]

Value wise, not player styles. I know Muzzin's game. If I didn't, I wouldn't be interested in him.

A 31 year old making 5.5M a year for 3 more years with a modified NTC has the same value as a 29 year old making 4M a year for 2 more years?

 

[Habs Halifax]

A 31 year old making 5.5M a year for 3 more years with a modified NTC has the same value as a 29 year old making 4M a year for 2 more years?

Play on the ice and contract status factors in. Edge to Petry cause he has one more year in term. But it's close either way.

 

[Liferleafer]

Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin. If the Leafs continue to struggle as their most recent 3-7 stretch. The pressure will be turned up in a market like Toronto, and Dubas who folded in the Nylander negotiations, and he just traded a 5th rd pick for a AHL goalie that was a available as a UFA is a key indicator to me, he may make a bad move when he is backed into a corner. So the key here is if the Leafs remain on the pace of their last 20 games. They may bite on an overpayment proposal. Further Muzzin is going to draw many offers, so the Kings likely will get an overpayment anyway.

Calling it right now....if the Leafs trade for Muzzin, you will be in the thread saying 2 things:

1. No matter what we trade for him, you will say we lost the trade.

2. The minute the deal is done, you will be calling Muzzin a terrible addition and nothing more than a #4 defender.

 

[ToDavid]

He's not trending terribly but he also not trending as well as Sandin. Curious, why did he play one ECHL game this year? What's the story behind that?

Gave him a conditioning game when he came back from his ankle sprain. Marlies have about a 40 player roster so they use their ECHL affiliate pretty frequently for stuff like that. Although apparently he tweaked it again so he hasn't gotten back into an AHL game yet.

Most of the people who actually track our prospects and watch Marlies games agree that Liljegren is still the better. Sandin came into the AHL hot and stole the spotlight with a bunch of points but Liljegren is the better player all around.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin. If the Leafs continue to struggle as their most recent 3-7 stretch. The pressure will be turned up in a market like Toronto, and Dubas who folded in the Nylander negotiations, and he just traded a 5th rd pick for a AHL goalie that was a available as a UFA is a key indicator to me, he may make a bad move when he is backed into a corner. So the key here is if the Leafs remain on the pace of their last 20 games. They may bite on an overpayment proposal. Further Muzzin is going to draw many offers, so the Kings likely will get an overpayment anyway.

Muzzin will draw many offers? Well, maybe teams offer several packages of value below the 1st and top prospect so in this case I agree. Same with Patch... I'm sure Bergevin got many calls but they were low ball offers. It's normal for GM's to inquire.

Serious offers? Only ones I'm seeing on this thread right now are Leafs and Habs. I don't think Muzzin will be as popular as McDonaugh or Shattenkirk. Muzzin is good but I'm just not sure how many GM's are willing to pay the price you want.

I like stuff like this. It will be interesting to watch unfold.

 

[Liferleafer]

Muzzin will draw many offers? Well, maybe teams offer several packages of value below the 1st and top prospect so in this case I agree. Same with Patch... I'm sure Bergevin got many calls but they were low ball offers. It's normal for GM's to inquire.

Serious offers? Only ones I'm seeing on this thread right now are Leafs and Habs. I don't think Muzzin will be as popular as McDonaugh or Shattenkirk. Muzzin is good but I'm just not sure how many GM's are willing to pay the price you want.

I like stuff like this. It will be interesting to watch unfold.

We don't normally agree on much...but i agree here. This feels like another McDonagh/Karlsson situation...fans of teams stating what the cost will be, and in the end....the reaction is "that's all it took to get him???".

It's how i felt knowing the Leafs were in on McDonagh...granted the extra pieces in that one made it tough. But i felt that way when Hamonic was traded....and whe Hamilton wen to Calgary. My thoughts were "Toronto couldn't top that?".

 

[Habs Halifax]

We don't normally agree on much...but i agree here. This feels like another McDonagh/Karlsson situation...fans of teams stating what the cost will be, and in the end....the reaction is "that's all it took to get him???".

We have gotten into disagreements before... it's all good and part of the conversations and I'm fine with it if we stay respectful to each other. The Habs just went through a similar situation with Patch and stayed patient. Many Habs fans criticized Bergevin for not selling at the 2018 deadline where they felt his value was reduced afterwards. We tried at the draft and didn't work out. Then we tried the sign and trade and that did. We got lucky IMO and it could of back fired where Patch is still with us. We don't know what offers Bergevin was getting all along however.

- Panthers rumored to be intersted in the 2018 deadline
- Islanders rumored to be interested at the 2018 draft
- Kings rumored to have a deal in place but Patch didn't sign the extension and it fell through
- Vegas had a disappointment in Tatar and decided to swap his cap hit with a higher cap hit in Patch where they gave up Suzuki and a 1st

It's a negotiation strategy. You always set the price high and see what kind of bites you get. I respect the Kings for setting the price but all we can do is offer our best package. Sometimes you get a desperate GM like Dorion who pays the price.

It's really hard to make both sides happy in any trade.

 

[ole ole]

A 31 year old making 5.5M a year for 3 more years with a modified NTC has the same value as a 29 year old making 4M a year for 2 more years?

It all depends on the players.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Muzzin will draw many offers? Well, maybe teams offer several packages of value below the 1st and top prospect so in this case I agree. Same with Patch... I'm sure Bergevin got many calls but they were low ball offers. It's normal for GM's to inquire.

Serious offers? Only ones I'm seeing on this thread right now are Leafs and Habs. I don't think Muzzin will be as popular as McDonaugh or Shattenkirk. Muzzin is good but I'm just not sure how many GM's are willing to pay the price you want.

I like stuff like this. It will be interesting to watch unfold.

I expect some team that is serious about making a run this year to make a serious offer. All signs point to Muzzin being very much in demand.

The Insider was asked about the Los Angeles Kings defenseman, whose “name is on everyone’s trade board.”
“And it should be. He’s a quality Top-4 defenseman. I don’t think that there’s much doubt of that” said Dreger. “The asking price for Jake Muzzin, though, apparently is off the charts. It’s like a first-round draft pick and a prospect, if not a top prospect.