LeBrun: Kings want 1st-round pick, prospect for Muzzin

[Reaper45]

I expect some team that is serious about making a run this year to make a serious offer. All signs point to Muzzin being very much in demand.

On top of that the Kings dont have to trade him this year. If you dont meet the Kings demands they can hold onto him. But teams are going to find a TON of value with having him for 2 playoff runs and a full season.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

On top of that the Kings dont have to trade him this year. If you dont meet the Kings demands they can hold onto him. But teams are going to find a TON of value with having him for 2 playoff runs and a full season.

Muzzin's contract works in the Kings favor too, as well as he has no trade protection. This is one where Blake needs to get an overpayment back. I see this every TDL, some teams will overpay.

 

[ole ole]

Especially ones that are in desperate need of some good D-men for that run.

 

[Seventyx7]

Comparing Muzzin to Petry? Ridiculous . Muzzin is being hugely underrated in this thread. $4M cap hit for two playoff runs, for a proven, durable, physical two-way top 4 (I would argue top 2) d-man in his prime. He's played very well on a terrible team, and any team looking to make a run over the next two years should be very interested in getting him.

 

[YP44]

Comparing Muzzin to Petry? Ridiculous . Muzzin is being hugely underrated in this thread. $4M cap hit for two playoff runs, for a proven, durable, physical two-way top 4 (I would argue top 2) d-man in his prime. He's played very well on a terrible team, and any team looking to make a run over the next two years should be very interested in getting him.

He is a +10 on a team with a huge negative goal differential. I know +/- has issues but that is impressive.

 

[Osprey]

It's out of context because you simply go "see he's playing different competition" without saying why, who he was playing with, where he was starting, how the team did, and focusing only on plus/minus without looking at corsi, points, or really anything but raw GA.

My argument wasn't out of context. You either missed the context or tried to change it to invalidate the point being made.

I was responding directly to praise for Muzzin being "the best defenseman on the team this season" and "excelling." In that context, it's perfectly valid to point out that he faces the lowest Quality of Competition of the top 4 and that that could be a "reason why" he's excelling. Considering that you've been stressing that "the reasons why do matter," that's a point that you ought to grant, regardless of whether you have a good counter argument. If I didn't mention circumstances or facts that you feel are important in that context, then you're free to bring them up, but that doesn't make my argument "out of context" any more than your own arguments that flatter Muzzin and ignore the circumstances and facts (like QoC) that don't.

I'm only getting worked up because you and tomd BOTH know better, but you're here being deliberately obtuse, so I figure the crowd needs to know the truth.

You've been getting worked up at seemingly anyone who offends your valuation of Muzzin, not just tomd and me.

I haven't seen so many used car sales pitches in a thread since the days of Ryder, Halak, and a 2nd.

You've been the one pitching Muzzin the hardest to potential buyers. Does that not make you the used car salesman?

 

[LAKings88]

Muzzin is a legit 2-3. His game has reflected it this season.

Again, a solid all around player. Not really spectacular in any one area.

He is better than most of what is available. Contract is nice too.

He will be a good piece for any contender this year and next.

 

[deaderhead28]

And that matters in 2019 because?

Cherry picking much?

 

[zeke]

Interesting... that's why I asked. If Muzzin can play RD effectively, then you guys should do it. But how are you acquiring Muzzin with a 1st and who as a prospect? If not Sandin and Liljegren?

Help the Kings out... what prospects are you putting on the table?

Bracco has the flashy skills and numbers, so I'd offer him, secretly hoping you didn't insist on grundstrom instead. but I'd give in on grundstrom in the end anyways.

 

[zeke]

They will look at where they were drafted and laugh at you cause some ignore draft plus 1/2 years of development.

the leafs also have 2nd and 3rd rounders playing great.

feel free to compare your ylonens and fleurys to our Braccos and grundstroms.

but you're just fooling yourself if you're giving them comparable values to Liljegren.

 

[kilowatt]

Comparing Muzzin to Petry? Ridiculous . Muzzin is being hugely underrated in this thread. $4M cap hit for two playoff runs, for a proven, durable, physical two-way top 4 (I would argue top 2) d-man in his prime. He's played very well on a terrible team, and any team looking to make a run over the next two years should be very interested in getting him.

Thank you. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Muzzin is better than Petry.

 

[zeke]

Thank you. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Muzzin is better than Petry.

Petry is super underrated. it's not an insult to compare the two. the numbers say both are quality #2/3 all situations dmen.

 

[Habs Halifax]

the leafs also have 2nd and 3rd rounders playing great.

feel free to compare your ylonens and fleurys to our Braccos and grundstroms.

but you're just fooling yourself if you're giving them comparable values to Liljegren.

Ylonen is equal to Liljegren. But if you want Liljegren... up to you.

 

[zeke]

Ylonen is equal to Liljegren. But if you want Liljegren... up to you.

Ylonen is more comparable to a leaf prospect like grundstrom or bracco.

Ylonen 2nd rnd pick
Grundstrom 2nd rnd pick
Bracco 2nd rnd pick

Age 21

Grundstrom: AHL 25gl/60pt pace
Bracco: AHL 20gl/80pt pace
Ylonen: ---

Age 20

Grundstrom: SHL 40gl/55pt pace
Bracco: AHL 10gl/50pt pace
Ylonen: ---

Age 19

Grundstrom: SHL 25gl/35pt pace / WJC 7gms, 3gls, 7pts
Bracco: OHL 35gl/120pt pace / WJC 7gms, 3gls, 5pts
Ylonen: Liiga 20gl/35pt pace / WJC 7gms, 3gls 6pts

Age 18

Grundstrom: SHL 10gl/30pt pace / WJC 7gms, 1gls, 1pts
Bracco: OHL 35gl/107pt pace/ WJC ----
Ylonen: B-Liiga 25gl/45pt pace / WJC -----

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ylonen is more comparable to a leaf prospect like grundstrom or bracco.

Ylonen 2nd rnd pick
Grundstrom 2nd rnd pick
Bracco 2nd rnd pick

Age 21

Grundstrom: AHL 25gl/60pt pace
Bracco: AHL 20gl/80pt pace
Ylonen: ---

Age 20

Grundstrom: SHL 40gl/55pt pace
Bracco: AHL 10gl/50pt pace
Ylonen: ---

Age 19

Grundstrom: SHL 25gl/35pt pace / WJC 7gms, 3gls, 7pts
Bracco: OHL 35gl/120pt pace / WJC 7gms, 3gls, 5pts
Ylonen: Liiga 20gl/35pt pace / WJC 7gms, 3gls 6pts

Age 18

Grundstrom: SHL 10gl/30pt pace / WJC 7gms, 1gls, 1pts
Bracco: OHL 35gl/107pt pace/ WJC ----
Ylonen: B-Liiga 25gl/45pt pace / WJC -----

Development after being drafted squashes where they were drafted. Do you think Romanov is a 2nd round value at this stage? I don't care if you don't value Ylonen. That is your right but he is a very early 2nd round pick and trending very well. Did you even watch him play at the world juniors? He is a speedy forward with goal scoring ability.

Fleury who was a 3rd round pick for the Habs is trending just as good as Liljegren who was a 1st round pick.

If you are drooling over the Leafs grade B prospects... go ahead. Make a deal with them. I'm interested in Muzzin and my Ylonen and two 2nd's is a very solid offer. You don't have to like it but I'm not going higher cause you think Ylonen has 2nd round only value. There are many Habs fans who prefer not to trade Ylonen.

My personal best offer is this. Take it or leave it. And feel free to shop it with other teams. I'm not going higher.
- Pick one from Ylonen, Juulsen, Fleury, Olofsson, Evans, Lindgren
- Two 2nd round picks (50 ish range). Habs and Blue Jackets 2nd

If you think you can get higher, go right ahead. Habs are not desperate to acquire Muzzin. We are only interested and we will move on if you ask for more than this.

 

[zeke]

Development after being drafted squashes where they were drafted. Do you think Romanov is a 2nd round value at this stage? I don't care if you don't value Ylonen. That is your right but he is a very early 2nd round pick and trending very well. Did you even watch him play at the world juniors? He is a speedy forward with goal scoring ability.
.

he had a solid WJC, like grundstrom and Bracco had at that age.

none of those 3 was excelling as a top line top usage player in the AHL at 19 like Liljegren is, though.

Fleury who was a 3rd round pick for the Habs is trending just as good as Liljegren who was a 1st round pick.

No. Fleury at age 20 is about where Liljegren was at 18.

If you are drooling over the Leafs grade B prospects... go ahead.

the only one drooling over B prospects like ylonen is you.

 

[YP44]

Development after being drafted squashes where they were drafted. Do you think Romanov is a 2nd round value at this stage? I don't care if you don't value Ylonen. That is your right but he is a very early 2nd round pick and trending very well. Did you even watch him play at the world juniors? He is a speedy forward with goal scoring ability.

Fleury who was a 3rd round pick for the Habs is trending just as good as Liljegren who was a 1st round pick.

If you are drooling over the Leafs grade B prospects... go ahead. Make a deal with them. I'm interested in Muzzin and my Ylonen and two 2nd's is a very solid offer. You don't have to like it but I'm not going higher cause you think Ylonen has 2nd round only value. There are many Habs fans who prefer not to trade Ylonen.

My personal best offer is this. Take it or leave it. And feel free to shop it with other teams. I'm not going higher.
- Pick one from Ylonen, Juulsen, Fleury, Olofsson, Evans, Lindgren
- Two 2nd round picks (50 ish range). Habs and Blue Jackets 2nd

If you think you can get higher, go right ahead. Habs are not desperate to acquire Muzzin. We are only interested and we will move on if you ask for more than this.

Juulsen and 2 2nds seems fair IMO. I would like the pick to be a conditional 1st pick and if conditions are not met it becomes 2 2nds. Would you be on board for that? Condition could be make 2nd round of playoffs with Muzzin playing in 50% of playoff games (provides injury insurance for Montreal)

 

[Habs Halifax]

he had a solid WJC, like grundstrom and Bracco had at that age.

none of those 3 was excelling as a top line top usage player in the AHL at 19 like Liljegren is, though.

Fine. You don't value him. That's your choice. If you are trying to say that we need to give you more, it won't fly.

Habs got Suzuki, 2nd, and Tatar who Vegas retained in salary for Patch in a sign and trade value. Do you think your getting both a top prospect and a 1st for 1.5 years of Muzzin? Good luck with that and I wish you the best. If you get it, I'll be happy for the Kings. It's not coming from the Habs. We made our top end offers. Go ahead and shop it and pick the Leafs prospects if you wish. No hard feelings if you do.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Juulsen and 2 2nds seems fair IMO. I would like the pick to be a conditional pick and if conditions are not met it becomes 2 2nds. Would you be on board for that? Condition could be make 2nd round of playoffs with Muzzin playing in 50% of playoff games (provides injury insurance for Montreal)

I'm willing to put conditions on weather or not Muzzin extends this summer or next summer. I'll add a future 2nd if he does.

- Juulsen, and two 2nd round picks
* Future 2021 2nd if Muzzin extends with Montreal.

A very solid offer and some Habs fans will jump on me for it. Some want to stay the course and not make any moves. I'm not on that bandwagon. Our toolbox is full of quality and quantity of prospects and I'm willing to make hockey trades to make the team better now.

 

[YP44]

I'm willing to put conditions on weather or not Muzzin extends this summer or next summer. I'll add a future 2nd if he does.

- Juulsen, and two 2nd round picks
* Future 2021 2nd if Muzzin extends with Montreal.

A very solid offer and some Habs fans will jump on me for it. Some want to stay the course and not make any moves. I'm not on that bandwagon. Our toolbox is full of quality and quantity of prospects and I'm willing to make hockey trades to make the team better now.

I would not be mad if Blake made this move.

 

[fsanford]

Watching the Caps last couple of games, they seem to desperately need some defensive upgrades.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would not be mad if Blake made this move.

Same dilemma the Habs had with Patch and he had slightly more value than Muzzin IMO (It's close though). It's not easy to make both sides happy in a trade like this.

Option A: Trade him now for the best offer
Option B. Wait till the draft
Option C. Try the sign and trade after July 1st
Option D. Trade him at the 2020 deadline for less than Option A
Option E. Keep him and re-sign him

I wish the Kings good luck. It won't be easy cause it was not for the Habs with Patch. We got lucky with Tatar and we didn't even get the 1st we wanted in a sign and trade return. We even had a deal with the Kings fall through cause Patch didn't want to re-sign. Sign and trade is hard to pull off. You need circumstance to work in your favor and doesn't always present itself.

 

[sansabri]

he had a solid WJC, like grundstrom and Bracco had at that age.

none of those 3 was excelling as a top line top usage player in the AHL at 19 like Liljegren is, though.

He was the best dman. That's a bit more than having a solid WJC. He's already in the KHL - a league much superior to the AHL.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would not be mad if Blake made this move.

It's a fair offer. If you can shop it and get more from another team, all the power to you guys. Honestly, I went a bit higher than most Habs fans would like. No idea what Bergevin would ask for.

We are interested in Muzzin. But we are not desperate. If you can find a desperate GM, take advantage. Good luck.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think TB may be the sneaky team here if they want Muzzin.

They have cap space this year, they have Girardi, Stralman, and Coburn all as UFA's next season.

Adding Muzzin for this year and next would fill a lot of holes and also upgrade their D this year. Making that D, probably the deepest in the NHL.

TB's window is right now.

Maybe Foote and a 1st? Price is steep for a cup. But adding Muzzin make TB stronger, covers resigning one of the 3 above in the summer, and keeps him out of the hands of the Leafs and other competitors that need D desperately.