LeBrun: Kings want 1st-round pick, prospect for Muzzin

[patriotfan]

Muzzin is worth more than you think. 1.5 years in term left for a very good top 4D with 30-40 pts in potential. Just because the Kings are having a bad year, it don't mean players who have had great careers so far suck. Muzzin has value

yes he has value for someone that will over pay, hes a good player that I would like to see come to the leafs but not evern close to the asking price. not happening

 

[Habs Halifax]

I guess it is risky, but there are several more opportunities to move muzzin if we don't plan on re signing him. There are other players that we can / perhaps should move on from, that we can pick up futures for also, so Muzzin isn't a must move.

We are probably ok taking the best deal available, our D prospects seem a little light, so picking up a good blueline prospect would be nice.

Good luck with it. Don't listen to the fans who tell you he is not worth it and they don't provide any offer of their own. Not sure if you like it or not, but Juulsen, 2nd, and Ikonen is the best I can provide. And I do realize Juulsen's value will the thrown under the bus. I gave a starting point, let other fans beat it.

 

[joe dirte]

He's done it multiple times in the past....he's put Gardiner (a lefty) with Rielly a few times recently. I don't think handedness is going to block a trade.

he doesn't do it frequently, and doesn't like to do it. As far as coaches go, he insists more than most having Dmen play their handed side.

I wouldn't mind Muzzin at all, if he were going to replace Hainsey.

 

[joe dirte]

yes he has value for someone that will over pay, hes a good player that I would like to see come to the leafs but not evern close to the asking price. not happening

uhh, he's worth that easily

signed,
Leaf fan

 

[Habs Halifax]

yes he has value for someone that will over pay, hes a good player that I would like to see come to the leafs but not evern close to the asking price. not happening

Guys like this (top 4D) who are close to UFA are worth one solid piece for each year in term left. A 1st and a prospect is not a terrible starting point. Not many are willing to trade their 1st but there is always a desperate GM.

If the Habs were closer to nailing down a playoff spot and we felt Muzzin would re-sign after his deal is over. I would consider trading the 1st. But it's too risky for us cause if we falter, it's a lottery pick. Even if it's a 10-15 range pick, that's still significant. Go look at each draft year from the past and bust factor increases from 15-30 range vs 1-15. There is never any definite starting point but the risks gets higher as you move into the 2nd half of the draft and depends on each draft year.

 

[Habs Halifax]

uhh, he's worth that easily

signed,
Leaf fan

What would the Leafs offer? Or are you not willing to make an offer cause you guys are after a RD instead?

 

[orbiter11]

Not unless you're trading Gardiner somewhere. The Leafs have less than zero need for a LHD

I agree. If this is the team the leafs are happy with we need both Muzzin and Pietrangelo. Move Gardiner for a first then swap it for Muzzin. Then throw whatever is required to get Pietrangelo(Nylander, plus). Be done with the defense problem once and for all. Just hope whatever extension for Pietrangelo thats in place isn't over 8 million.

Reilly Pietrangelo
Muzzin Zaitsev
Dermott Hansey
Oz
That D could compete with the Capitals or the Lightining

 

[joe dirte]

What would the Leafs offer? Or are you not willing to make an offer cause you guys are after a RD instead?

if he can fill Hainsey's spot (and play on the right side), I'm fine with Liljegren and our first.

But I don't think they'd go after him.

 

[go4hockey]

I get it. However, show me an offer from another team that trumps mine. Are the Kings willing to not trade Muzzin at the deadline cause they don't get a 1st? Not saying he does not deserve it but what if a team don't offer one? What's plan B? Try to get more on draft day or keep him?

Before people flip out... just asking simple questions. I offered a package. Show me one that trumps it and I'll see if I want to beat it or let the other team have him.

I think if they don’t get what they want for Muzz then yea they keep him. He has another year and LA is not desperate to move him without getting a package they really like. But if and that’s a big IF he is being shopped I think LA will get plenty of good offers

 

[Habs Halifax]

if he can fill Hainsey's spot (and play on the right side), I'm fine with Liljegren and our first.

But I don't think they'd go after him.

Liljegren and a 1st fits in terms of value. Personally, I always valued Sandin more than him anyways (Habs fan perspective). Isn't the issue here with the Leafs the following...

- What to do with Gardiner in the off season? I know, it sucks how some have turned on him but I think he is let go due to cap reasons and you want to free up space to sign Marner/Matthews. Is Dermott ready to replace Gardiner on the left side? I guess option B is Sandin. He could be ready next year. Left side looks very solid.

- What cap issues are presented if you add Muzzin but let Gardiner go? Some say none but some say there is no cap room to re-sign Gardiner anyways?

- I think you can easily move Hainsey to 3rd pairing for the rest of the year but can Muzzin play RD effectively?

I think I agree with you. You need improvements on D but Muzzin don't fit the left side and you would need to play him on the right side. Not sure if he has proven to be effective on that side? I also think the Leafs don't go after him but who knows

 

[Benstheman]

Prospects like Suzuki, Poehling, Brook, Mete, Romanov, Primeau and our 2019 1st should be made disponible but not for short term fix like Muzzin. If an offer of a top 4 lhd under 26 years old comes along, i don't hesitate 1 second to use some of those pieces.

Prospects like Juulsen, Fleury, Olofsson, Ikonen, Ylonen and 2nd round picks should be made available if Habs are in the playoffs portrait and want to add at the deadline.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think if they don’t get what they want for Muzz then yea they keep him. He has another year and LA is not desperate to move him without getting a package they really like. But if and that’s a big IF he is being shopped I think LA will get plenty of good offers

Yeah but teams will offer less with less term. Unless, You can work our a sign and trade after July 1st? This is what happen with Patch. Easier said than done. You have to find a team willing to give you what you want and Muzzin also has to agree to an extension.

Circumstance needs to work out. Possible but has risks. Many Habs fans trolled Bergevin for not trading Patch at the 2018 deadline because they felt we would get less cause one less playoffs the team acquiring him would get.

 

[evanreynolds1116]

I think if they don’t get what they want for Muzz then yea they keep him. He has another year and LA is not desperate to move him without getting a package they really like. But if and that’s a big IF he is being shopped I think LA will get plenty of good offers

I agree with you. Kings do not have to trade him if they don't like the return. Even with their crappy season, they are 7 points out from a wild card spot (Wild have a game in hand though). 2012 taught us that anything can happen. Just get in.

 

[scrubadam]

I think if they don’t get what they want for Muzz then yea they keep him. He has another year and LA is not desperate to move him without getting a package they really like. But if and that’s a big IF he is being shopped I think LA will get plenty of good offers

Bergevin was in the same boat with Max last season and plenty of media fans were freaking out that he should of traded Max at the deadline.

In the end Habs wound up with Tatar with retention, a 2nd and Suzuki which was a great deal for the habs.

LA shouldn't be in a rush to trade Muzzin just because they are having a down year. Also if LA wins the Loto and gets a Hughs or another great player with the talent they have on the team they can turn it around and Muzzin can be a part of that.

As a habs fan I would love to get Muzzin but I don't think I would be willing to pay the price that LA wants. But with term on his contract and another TDL to go LA can stay at their price until someone meets it. Its the other GM's that need to blink not LA's.

 

[joe dirte]

Liljegren and a 1st fits in terms of value. Personally, I always valued Sandin more than him anyways (Habs fan perspective). Isn't the issue here with the Leafs the following...

- What to do with Gardiner in the off season? I know, it sucks how some have turned on him but I think he is let go due to cap reasons and you want to free up space to sign Marner/Matthews. Is Dermott ready to replace Gardiner on the left side? I guess option B is Sandin. He could be ready next year. Left side looks very solid.

Yes, that is an issue. I think Babcock will probably push Dubas to re-sign him. I also think they'd make moves with guys like Zaitsev and Marleau to get Gardiner to fit. But yes, while it's a downgrade (for the time being at least), they can move Dermott into his spot.

- What cap issues are presented if you add Muzzin but let Gardiner go? Some say none but some say there is no cap room to re-sign Gardiner anyways?

As it stands there is no room to re-sign Gardiner, but I don't think the team will remain "as it stands". As I've already mentioned, I think the most likely to go are Zaitsev and Marleau. I actually suspect there has always been a plan in place for Marleau, but we'll see.

- I think you can easily move Hainsey to 3rd pairing for the rest of the year but can Muzzin play RD effectively?

I don't know, tha'ts the question.

I think I agree with you. You need improvements on D but Muzzin don't fit the left side and you would need to play him on the right side. Not sure if he has proven to be effective on that side? I also think the Leafs don't go after him but who knows

yeah. My thoughts exactly.

 

[Kurrilino]

1st and a forward prospect (not Kap or Andreas) makes sense when you consider he can help now and replace Gardiner who walks this year. Muzzin is reasonably played and could be resigned after his deal expires given the Leafs really only have a tough one year for cap before Marleau's 6.25 comes off.

Don't pay too much mind to the bad posters. They don't represent the logical fans.

I totally agree here.
A deal between Leafs and Kings can and should be made. It's a rare win-win situation.
Just wondering where the other fairytale offers are coming from and why even post them

 

[Habs Halifax]

I totally agree here.
A deal between Leafs and Kings can and should be made. It's a rare win-win situation.
Just wondering where the other fairytale offers are coming from and why even post them

It seems logical but Muzzin plays LD. Leafs have Rielly, Gardiner, Sandin, Dermott on that side. It only fits if one of them can play RD side effectively.

 

[Flair Hay]

Why would the Jets even think about that? Kulikov has been playing great. So pay Vesalainen and a 1st for a small upgrade? Especially when the Jets are going to desperately need Vesalainen next year?

A bit complicated but I'll try to answer. I will preface by saying I know this is terrible for the future lol

We will need to trade Kulikov next year even with Myers walking. This gets back a better defenseman at half the salary for this year and next. 2 million for a playoff proven top 4 defenseman.

Theres a chance we would have to trade Perreault as well as Kulikov if we signed Laine and Connor long term. This would allow the Jets to hang on to Perreault without bridging anybody.

I get that losing Vesalainen would really suck. After a little more consideration, I think fair value would be a little more like Ves a 2nd and Kuli.

Basically I am trying to add Muzzin but keep our current team largely intact and shave 2 million off the cap at a huge hit to our future.

Probably dumb trade but I am still drunk off of power after that win last night

 

[zeke]

1st rounder + bracco

done deal.

 

[TorontoTrades]

It seems logical but Muzzin plays LD. Leafs have Rielly, Gardiner, Sandin, Dermott on that side. It only fits if one of them can play RD side effectively.

Play him or someone else on the rest of the year and he replaces Gardiner next year. We need better D men period.

 

[MXD]

Why is everybody dodging the question?? Multiple people are having no issue telling me thy point is "The Leafs need to pay a premium"..."it must be Kap or Lil plus the Leafs 1st"...well then it should be super easy to post a comparable trade for:
Pens
Habs
Oilers

The reason you are dodging, is because the minute you figure out a comparable deal, you realize that those fans will tell you to shove it.

The Habs equivalent would be, I suppose, 1st + Poheling or 1st + Suzuki
And you're right about what would be my reaction.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Play him or someone else on the rest of the year and he replaces Gardiner next year. We need better D men period.

I think the Leafs management will be careful with how they try to improve the D and use any of their cap space. Stocking up on LD and playing them on the the RD might not be something they value. Not sure.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Habs equivalent would be, I suppose, 1st + Poheling or 1st + Suzuki
And you're right about what would be my reaction.

A few Habs fans would be OK with... What are your thoughts?

- Juulsen or Fleury
- 2nd (Habs or Blue Jackets)
- Ikonen or some grade B piece (or Hudon if you value his ability)

This is the highest the Habs would go. If another team beats it easily, so be it. Kings get a better return.

 

[SFKingshomer]

1st rounder + bracco

done deal.

Maybe for Martinez

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why is everybody dodging the question?? Multiple people are having no issue telling me thy point is "The Leafs need to pay a premium"..."it must be Kap or Lil plus the Leafs 1st"...well then it should be super easy to post a comparable trade for:
Pens
Habs
Oilers

The reason you are dodging, is because the minute you figure out a comparable deal, you realize that those fans will tell you to shove it.

See post 298. Best I think most Habs fans would offer. We would love to acquire Muzzin (some of us anyways) but we are only trading our 1st if we acquire a player with term. 1.5 years don't fit and we are not allowed to negotiate an extension till July. This is not to say some team gives the Kings what they want. It's just what we are willing to do for an asset with 1.5 years in term left. Very good top 4D who provides shutdown ability and 30-40 pts in potential if he is producing to his highest level.

I don't think a 1st and a prospect is a terrible ask. Our offer is slightly less. I won't be surprised when someone throws Juulsen's value under the bus either.

The other factor that I have not seen anybody talk about is Muzzin's AAV for those 1.5 years is a steal. There is value there for sure.