LeBrun: Kings want 1st-round pick, prospect for Muzzin

[Boondock]

Pietro is a great defenseman Im not saying otherwise, but your request was the equivalent of three first round picks, a second, and two b prospects. Find me a player who has been traded for that amount of loot in the salary cap era.

Based the return off the Karlsson trade. As I said, I think having Peitro signed for another year makes him worth more than a pure rental (Karlsson) -

Tierney < Kap
Lil/Sandin = Norris
Balcer = Grundstrom - maybe Timashov is a closer comparable?
Rosen/Borgman = Demelo
1st = 1st
2nd = 2nd

I tried to make the comparable as close as possible given different roster make ups, I also think the Blues would be looking to improve their D with a Pietro deal as they have a strong group of young F's but not a ton coming down the pipe line on D.

Is it a lot, yep - but that was my whole point. I'm reading comments that are saying well if we're giving up a 1st and Kap, I'd rather get Pietro or Parayko, but I don't think that calibre of Dman is available without major assets going the other way.

I wasn't making a proposal, just a personal evaluation on what it might take to get a Pietro type player at the TDL using the Karlsson deal as a guideline.

 

[Boondock]

First rounder...done! Prospect?Done... Anyone but Sandin.

This is a solid post. I agree that should be the approach if the Leafs are seriously after someone to play on the top pairing with Mo.

 

[Liferleafer]

This is a solid post. I agree that should be the approach if the Leafs are seriously after someone to play on the top pairing with Mo.

They are....not sure asking a guy who's never played the right side (Muzzin) to suddenly do that on the top pair is the right move though. The Leafs should be targeting a righty if they are moving a 1st+one of their best prospects.

 

[Liferleafer]

Based the return off the Karlsson trade. As I said, I think having Peitro signed for another year makes him worth more than a pure rental (Karlsson) -

Tierney < Kap
Lil/Sandin = Norris
Balcer = Grundstrom - maybe Timashov is a closer comparable?
Rosen/Borgman = Demelo
1st = 1st
2nd = 2nd

I tried to make the comparable as close as possible given different roster make ups, I also think the Blues would be looking to improve their D with a Pietro deal as they have a strong group of young F's but not a ton coming down the pipe line on D.

Is it a lot, yep - but that was my whole point. I'm reading comments that are saying well if we're giving up a 1st and Kap, I'd rather get Pietro or Parayko, but I don't think that calibre of Dman is available without major assets going the other way.

I wasn't making a proposal, just a personal evaluation on what it might take to get a Pietro type player at the TDL using the Karlsson deal as a guideline.

Not to start a pissing contest...but you are way undervaluing Lil/Sandin here.

 

[Boondock]

Not to start a pissing contest...but you are way undervaluing Lil/Sandin here.

Why are they so much more valuable than a 2017 - 1st round Center, whos over ppg in college and was just a ppg for the US at the WJC? I get that both those players are in the A, so you actually get to watch them, but why are they so much better than Norris?

 

[Liferleafer]

Why are they so much more valuable than a 2017 - 1st round Center, whos over ppg in college and was just a ppg for the US at the WJC? I get that both those players are in the A, so you actually get to watch them, but why are they so much better than Norris?

Honest answer? Because i put more value in guys that are performing well as Dmen against men. PPG in college? PPG in a small sample size tourney? Not saying he won't develop, but right now, in my opinion, Lil/Sandin>Norris in terms of trade value.

Edit: It also has more to do with the Leafs future area of biggest need...as well as future cap constraints. We will need ELC Dmen in the very near future....and Lil/Sandin are the best shots we have.

 

[Seachd]

2019 top 5 protected first that could become the 2020 1st plus Evan Bouchard from the 2018 1st round would be a good starting ask from Edmonton.

Uh, good luck with that.

 

[shortfuze]

I don't think a lot of Leaf fans are being realistic as to the trade value of Pietro. This is one of the best RHD in the league and he has 10 NHL seasons of elite play to back up the claim. With 1 more year on the contract I don't think a late 1st, Lil/Kap and another piece are going to get it done from St. Louis. I think his value is every bit as high as Karlsson, but Karlsson's value took a hit because he was unwilling to negotiate a new deal at the time of the trade so he was a pure rental and the environment in Ottawa around Karlsson was so toxic, he had to move.

Karlsson received Tierny (young 3rd line C coming off 40pt), Demelo (young bottom pairing D), Norris (1st round C prospect), Balcer (top 9 winger prospect), 1st and 2nd round picks.

So a Pietroangelo needing a bigger return due to circumstance and contract length probably requires Kapanen, Lil/Sandin, Grundstrom, Rosen/Borgman, 1st and 2nd and I don't know if that is enough.

well this leafs fan has offered up Nylander, a top prospect and a 1st for a re-signed Pietrangelo. if they could somehow fit him under the cap is a different story. would you be interested in including Zaitsev with a cap dump from your side.

Nylander
top prospect
1st
(potentially Zaitsev)

for re-signed Pietrangelo
(potential cap dump)

 

[skuzzycuzz]

Muzzin is overated so hugely

 

[Colt55]

Based the return off the Karlsson trade. As I said, I think having Peitro signed for another year makes him worth more than a pure rental (Karlsson) -

Tierney < Kap
Lil/Sandin = Norris
Balcer = Grundstrom - maybe Timashov is a closer comparable?
Rosen/Borgman = Demelo
1st = 1st
2nd = 2nd

I tried to make the comparable as close as possible given different roster make ups, I also think the Blues would be looking to improve their D with a Pietro deal as they have a strong group of young F's but not a ton coming down the pipe line on D.

Is it a lot, yep - but that was my whole point. I'm reading comments that are saying well if we're giving up a 1st and Kap, I'd rather get Pietro or Parayko, but I don't think that calibre of Dman is available without major assets going the other way.

I wasn't making a proposal, just a personal evaluation on what it might take to get a Pietro type player at the TDL using the Karlsson deal as a guideline.

Yeah petro and parayko are pretty much unavailable. Unless overpayment

Nylander\kappy Sandin\liljgren 1st2019 (+if cap dump comes, this includes zaitsev, Try conitional 2nd becomes a first if leafs win stanley cup or extend petro)

 

[Deuce Awesome]

I wasn't making a proposal, just a personal evaluation on what it might take to get a Pietro type player at the TDL using the Karlsson deal as a guideline.

Fair enough. I didn't realize Norris was a first round defenseman, taken basically bang on where Lil/Sandin were taken.

So yeah that is fairly similiar. I don't know that I would value Pieter as high as Karlsson but he's not far from him.

 

[Colt55]

well this leafs fan has offered up Nylander, a top prospect and a 1st for a re-signed Pietrangelo. if they could somehow fit him under the cap is a different story. would you be interested in including Zaitsev with a cap dump from your side.

Nylander
top prospect
1st
(potentially Zaitsev)

for re-signed Pietrangelo
(potential cap dump)

Yeah sorry if petro is sign and trade then the price goes up. Your talking Marner. Thats not a joke either

 

[shortfuze]

Yeah sorry if petro is sign and trade then the price goes up. Your talking Marner. Thats not a joke either

Sounds good. That’s the offer I would leave in the table.

Also. I believe you would get less for an un-signed Pietrangelo. Nylander is what gets a signed Pietrangelo.

 

[Colt55]

Sounds good. That’s the offer I would leave in the table.

Also. I believe you would get less for an un-signed Pietrangelo. Nylander is what gets a signed Pietrangelo.

No nylander does not get you a top 10 elite rhd man in this league for 1.5 years at 6+ mil cap hit. If that is what you think then you are going to be disappointed. Also Nylander has 3 points in 18 games. His value is dropping like a rock in the ocean.I honestly think you guys have a better chance at hamilton and Pesce. Good luck to your team.

 

[Liferleafer]

You know, for a guy that complains A LOT that Leafs fans ask way to much for the great Blues Dmen....i gotta ask, why are you in a Muzzin thread talking about the Leafs and your great Blues Dmen?

Yeah petro and parayko are pretty much unavailable. Unless overpayment

Nylander\kappy Sandin\liljgren 1st2019 (+if cap dump comes, this includes zaitsev, Try conitional 2nd becomes a first if leafs win stanley cup or extend petro)

Yeah sorry if petro is sign and trade then the price goes up. Your talking Marner. Thats not a joke either

No nylander does not get you a top 10 elite rhd man in this league for 1.5 years at 6+ mil cap hit. If that is what you think then you are going to be disappointed. Also Nylander has 3 points in 18 games. His value is dropping like a rock in the ocean.I honestly think you guys have a better chance at hamilton and Pesce. Good luck to your team.

 

[Colt55]

You know, for a guy that complains A LOT that Leafs fans ask way to much for the great Blues Dmen....i gotta ask, why are you in a Muzzin thread talking about the Leafs and your great Blues Dmen?

Probably got mixed up in replies. Also I am sick as shit at work bored and ready for a nice margarita so i can pass out asap after work. Besides that yeah

 

[Boondock]

well this leafs fan has offered up Nylander, a top prospect and a 1st for a re-signed Pietrangelo. if they could somehow fit him under the cap is a different story. would you be interested in including Zaitsev with a cap dump from your side.

Nylander
top prospect
1st
(potentially Zaitsev)

for re-signed Pietrangelo
(potential cap dump)

I'm actually not a St. L fan, but intrigued by the Leafs this year, as I think they are an improved D core away from being a real cup contender this year, and given their cap situation going into next season I think this year provides them with a better shot, next year they may take a step back because of the $$ and the loss of one of their top 4 D (Gardiner - potentially). Once Marleau is off the books and with an increasing cap 2020-21 season could be amazing. If the Blues are willing to move a D I would think the top prospect has to be a Dman (Lil/Sandin) because they don't really have much in their system

 

[tomd]

Kings are 8-5-1 in their last 14...is the tank still on?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I’m pretty sure the Leafs can make this work. 1st + Borgman. Done.

I'd love that, but the proposal seems like one that could be easily beat. We have a very low 1st rounder and Borgman while OK is not a great prospect.

 

[Boondock]

Honest answer? Because i put more value in guys that are performing well as Dmen against men. PPG in college? PPG in a small sample size tourney? Not saying he won't develop, but right now, in my opinion, Lil/Sandin>Norris in terms of trade value.

Edit: It also has more to do with the Leafs future area of biggest need...as well as future cap constraints. We will need ELC Dmen in the very near future....and Lil/Sandin are the best shots we have.

I understand this point, the needs of the other team in the trade have to be considered too. Value may exist in a vacuum, but team composition and future needs need to be considered by both sides.

 

[Flair Hay]

Kulikov + 1st + Vesalainen for Muzzin 50% retained + 3rd

"Change my mind" lol

 

[Liferleafer]

I understand this point, the needs of the other team in the trade have to be considered too. Value may exist in a vacuum, but team composition and future needs need to be considered by both sides.

Ummmm....no, no they don't. That's why each team has the right to walk away. it may sound harsh, but i would hope Dubas doesn't overpay with assets he doesn't want to move just because LA says 'we need this". LA has every right to pass on any offer from any team if it doesn't work for them....but teams are only going to make offers that are in the best interest of themselves.

 

[shortfuze]

No nylander does not get you a top 10 elite rhd man in this league for 1.5 years at 6+ mil cap hit. If that is what you think then you are going to be disappointed. Also Nylander has 3 points in 18 games. His value is dropping like a rock in the ocean.I honestly think you guys have a better chance at hamilton and Pesce. Good luck to your team.

That’s fine. GM’s won’t base their opinion of Nylander off of an 18 game sample. And believe me, the longer they hold onto Pietrangelo I think a lot of ST. LOUIS fans will be disappointed with the return. Most trades like this are picks, prospects and young guys coming into the league. Not young top line RW’s.

 

[Huffer]

Kulikov + 1st + Vesalainen for Muzzin 50% retained + 3rd

"Change my mind" lol

Why would the Jets even think about that? Kulikov has been playing great. So pay Vesalainen and a 1st for a small upgrade? Especially when the Jets are going to desperately need Vesalainen next year?

 

[Colt55]

That’s fine. GM’s won’t base their opinion of Nylander off of an 18 game sample. And believe me, the longer they hold onto Pietrangelo I think a lot of ST. LOUIS fans will be disappointed with the return. Most trades like this are picks, prospects and young guys coming into the league. Not young top line RW’s.

I dont think you get it. We are fine with resigning him. Thats the point we are not wanting to trade petro or parayko. Its you people (yes i said you people) that hound and harass us every freaking day. I dare you to find one post where a blues fan offered petro or parayko for trade. If you do I will be amazed.