GDT: Kings off-season thread

[tbrown33]

I'd like to see the Kings bring in Mason Marchment while potentially moving out Iafallo. Iafallo is a fine defensive winger but he does not bring enough to the table as a bottom 6 forward @ 4 mill/season. Would rather use his spot on a different type of player at a lower cap hit.

Moore - Byfield - Marchment would wreak havoc on a forecheck. Byfield and Marchment were both top 5% in forecheck recoveries, both big bodies (Byfield needs to work on using his size and leverage more). Pair them with Moore, who is one of the best in the league at zone entries.

 

[johnjm22]

I'd like to see the Kings bring in Mason Marchment while potentially moving out Iafallo. Iafallo is a fine defensive winger but he does not bring enough to the table as a bottom 6 forward @ 4 mill/season. Would rather use his spot on a different type of player at a lower cap hit.

Moore - Byfield - Marchment would wreak havoc on a forecheck. Byfield and Marchment were both top 5% in forecheck recoveries, both big bodies (Byfield needs to work on using his size and leverage more). Pair them with Moore, who is one of the best in the league at zone entries.

View attachment 551956

It would also reunite Moore and Marchment who played together on the same line for the AHL Marlies.

I disagree on Iafallo. He had a bad .75 of a season and was injured. I mean he certainly shouldn't be untradeable, but people are undervaluing him right now. He's a solid hockey player. Guys have bad stretches. It happens. He'll likely turn it around IMO.

Remember Moore was pretty bad for the first part of the season.

 

[tbrown33]

It would also reunite Moore and Marchment who played together on the same line for the AHL Marlies.

I disagree on Iafallo. He had a bad .75 of a season and was injured. I mean he certainly shouldn't be untradeable, but people are undervaluing him right now. He's a solid hockey player. Guys have bad stretches. It happens. He'll likely turn it around IMO.

Remember Moore was pretty bad for the first part of the season.

I don't disagree re: Iafallo, he's very solid. I look at it as more of a roster construction issue - Kings are lacking toughness, size, and pop, which are boxes Marchment checks. Iafallo isn't bad - great defensively - but he's not a great skater, not very physical, and ok offensively. If the Kings want to contend, there's no spot for Iafallo in the top 6 and with this configuration he's a 4th line player on the Kings. It entirely depends on what moves the Kings make up front, but Iafallo looks like the odd man out from a roster construction standpoint. They've already telegraphed that they expect Kaliyev to be in the top 6 next year. Just not seeing anywhere to put Iafallo other than the 4th line, where honestly I'd rather plug in Grundstrom, Lizotte, and JAD/Kupari.

Other bonuses with Marchment - only 26 still, and you can't really say being on Florida inflated his stats, as his linemates ranked in the bottom third of the league while still facing above average competition. Lots of shots and chances while also generating a lot off the rush - fits in perfectly with the Kings makeup.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It would also reunite Moore and Marchment who played together on the same line for the AHL Marlies.

I disagree on Iafallo. He had a bad .75 of a season and was injured. I mean he certainly shouldn't be untradeable, but people are undervaluing him right now. He's a solid hockey player. Guys have bad stretches. It happens. He'll likely turn it around IMO.

Remember Moore was pretty bad for the first part of the season.

Such a bad trade by Toronto.....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

We remove Iafallo and immediately people just move on to shitkicking his replacement. We've seen it year over year over year...if it's not Pearson, it's Iafallo.

They're not all going to be gems. Sometimes, you need an ugly puck digger who can get you 40-50 points a year for a reasonable price. He is neither a steal nor a ripoff.

The folks removing him as a roster/cap casualty make more sense but you still have to replace a shitload of production and ability. That's an average top-sixer you're removing just because it's not sexy enough.

 

[johnjm22]

I don't disagree re: Iafallo, he's very solid. I look at it as more of a roster construction issue - Kings are lacking toughness, size, and pop, which are boxes Marchment checks. Iafallo isn't bad - great defensively - but he's not a great skater, not very physical, and ok offensively. If the Kings want to contend, there's no spot for Iafallo in the top 6 and with this configuration he's a 4th line player on the Kings. It entirely depends on what moves the Kings make up front, but Iafallo looks like the odd man out from a roster construction standpoint. They've already telegraphed that they expect Kaliyev to be in the top 6 next year. Just not seeing anywhere to put Iafallo other than the 4th line, where honestly I'd rather plug in Grundstrom, Lizotte, and JAD/Kupari.

Other bonuses with Marchment - only 26 still, and you can't really say being on Florida inflated his stats, as his linemates ranked in the bottom third of the league while still facing above average competition. Lots of shots and chances while also generating a lot off the rush - fits in perfectly with the Kings makeup.

View attachment 551973

Mason had 45 even strength points in 54 games. That's insane production.

That's a 68 EVP pace. That would be good enough for 8th in the entire NHL. Draisaitl and Marner had 68 EVP.

Obviously he's not going to repeat that. But 40 EVP, for 3rd/2nd liner that also brings size and toughness would be amazing.

I agree finding a spot for Iafallo becomes difficult if you add a UFA winger AND plan on playing kids.

I would also like to still see Lemieux in the lineup. When playing well he's a huge asset. Him and MM in the lineup together and the Kings start becoming a pain the the ass to play against.

But the Kings would still need someone with high-end scoring talent.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Mason had 45 even strength points in 54 games. That' insane production.

That's a 68 EVP pace. That would be good enough for 8th in the entire NHL. Draisaitl and Marner had 68 EVP.

Obviously he's not going to repeat that. But 40 EVP, for 3rd/2nd liner that also brings size and toughness would be amazing.

I agree finding a spot of Iafallo becomes difficult if you add a UFA winger AND plan on playing kids.

I would also like to still see Lemieux in the lineup. When playing well he's a huge asset. Him and MM in the lineup together and the Kings start becoming a pain the the ass to play against.

But the Kings would still need someone with high-end scoring talent.

Now how about the rest of his career?

It's a LOT of risk. Not to sign Mason, but to project him as an Iafallo replacement straight up.

Edit: and to be clear I'm a big Marchment advocate, he could explode like Trevor Moore post-January, but he could also just be bottom six savant Trevor Moore. The price has to be right. But if he hits that upside, oh baby.

 

[johnjm22]

Now how about the rest of his career?

It's a LOT of risk. Not to sign Mason, but to project him as an Iafallo replacement straight up.

Most likely if given a choice, TMac would just opt to play Iafallo over a kid. So it would be one of Grundstrom, QB, Kupari or Kaliyev that would sit.

Then of course you have Vilardi and JAD who are no longer waiver exempt.

So it's a predicament. You bring in another forward to improve the team now, and it's costing you the potential development of a kid.

 

[KingsFan7824]

You need somewhere to send a $4m less than talented winger, who can't check, who also has more cash than hit over the next 3 years.

 

[KingsFan7824]

If you want good players, you either have to trade actual good players/prospects, or pay up. Or, you buy on the cheap, and hope you hit a homerun. Willie Mitchell, old, coming off a concussion, the Kings outbid other teams, better teams, by giving more term. Same with Scuderi. Overpaid him, for the kind of player he was, but that's how you have to do it.

You don't get anything without taking a risk, one way or another.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If you want good players, you either have to trade actual good players/prospects, or pay up. Or, you buy on the cheap, and hope you hit a homerun. Willie Mitchell, old, coming off a concussion, the Kings outbid other teams, better teams, by giving more term. Same with Scuderi. Overpaid him, for the kind of player he was, but that's how you have to do it.

You don't get anything without taking a risk, one way or another.

Well, it only costs cash.

If you're referencing Marchment vs. Iafallo anyway. You can sign Marchment without penning him into Iafallo's spot. The signing is pretty low-risk if you're just getting an NHLer and hoping for higher upside, low risk high reward; the signing is pretty high risk if you're immediately throwing him onto the top line and trading Iafallo to open up his spot.

 

[johnjm22]

The thing is, I want Kupari, QB, Grundstrom and Kaliyev to all be full time in the NHL next season. But if you add an outside forward, it gets harder to fit them all in the lineup at once.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Well, it only costs cash.

this is a gross misunderstanding of how the world works

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

this is a gross misunderstanding of how the world works

Did I really need a disclaimer that it was a casual oversimplification? Come on.

Of course signing a player period is a cap, contract slot, roster spot risk.

Versus giving up major assets and trading another solidly-top-six player to guarantee that player a roster spot--the prior risk is relatively small.

If you were just busting my chops and I didn't get it, my bad and I'm an idiot. If you were just being unnecessarily pedantic--why? And also, I'm still an idiot.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Did I really need a disclaimer that it was a casual oversimplification? Come on.

Of course signing a player period is a cap, contract slot, roster spot risk.

Versus giving up major assets and trading another solidly-top-six player to guarantee that player a roster spot--the prior risk is relatively small.

So I've been toying with this thought recently that a trade is actually preferable because it forces one to accept the existence of risk and cost whereas a free agents signing "feels" like "low risk" because it's "just money"


For example... once I started to think about every purchase I made in terms of "this flight is about to cost me two weeks worth of work" rather than "this flight will cost me this amount of money" my decision making process has shifted.

If a GM sees a player and thinks "well... it's just money/cap space. LOW RISK!" it seems to me that they may be more likely to take an illadvised gamble without contemplating all of the consequences whereas a trade has a very tangible immediate cost which would force you to take deeper stock of ths situation.

But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Docgonzo]

I like Marchment but also really skeptical on a 26 year old having a career year on the best and highest scoring team in the league. He’s only played 94 games in his career. Is he a late bloomer or the next David Clarkson? Fiala might be pricier but he’s more proven.

 

[FSL KINGS]

You need somewhere to send a $4m less than talented winger, who can't check, who also has more cash than hit over the next 3 years.

Don't think a trade will happen, but Buffalo might be in the market for a hometown kid that can play steady & wouldn't mind being in Buffalo.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Don't think a trade will happen, but Buffalo might be in the market for a hometown kid that can play steady & wouldn't mind being in Buffalo.

But can he surf in Buffalo?

 

[FSL KINGS]

But can he surf in Buffalo?

Get the 6 mill out. Good to go.

 

[Gjwrams]

I only suggested moving an Iafallo from a cap perspective. Bringing in a top 6, youngish guy the score will cost us. I like him and see him as a solid 3rd line winger, but you’ve got kids you need to slot in and hopefully give some serious opportunities to. He might be the odd guy out, both from a cap and playing time for kids perspective.

if he stays, I’m fine with.

 

[Fishhead]

This was Iafallo's worst statistical year, he struggled with both consistency & injury. He had the third-highest quality of competition among forwards and the majority of his starts were in the D-zone. He played all over the lineup, with Kopitar, Danault, and Lizotte because of his utility, yet he still put up lower 2nd line production.

That's pretty impressive for an off-year, I don't think you are going to get much more than that for $4M AAV. But... He would definitely hold a lot of value in a trade and he's 28, so if the next wave does contend he'll be a bit long in the tooth. Honestly, any contending team that added Iafallo would be a nightmare. He's got a lot of the attributes of guys who pick it up in big games. But yeah, if you can use him to get a more prolific scorer who is a bit younger you do it.

 

[redcard]

So I've been toying with this thought recently that a trade is actually preferable because it forces one to accept the existence of risk and cost whereas a free agents signing "feels" like "low risk" because it's "just money"


For example... once I started to think about every purchase I made in terms of "this flight is about to cost me two weeks worth of work" rather than "this flight will cost me this amount of money" my decision making process has shifted.

If a GM sees a player and thinks "well... it's just money/cap space. LOW RISK!" it seems to me that they may be more likely to take an illadvised gamble without contemplating all of the consequences whereas a trade has a very tangible immediate cost which would force you to take deeper stock of ths situation.

But maybe I'm wrong.

Yes, but if the alternative is "this flight is about to cost me two weeks worth of work, a 2nd round pick, and Brock Faber" the first flight doesn't sound so bad.

 

[johnjm22]

I like Marchment but also really skeptical on a 26 year old having a career year on the best and highest scoring team in the league. He’s only played 94 games in his career. Is he a late bloomer or the next David Clarkson? Fiala might be pricier but he’s more proven.

I think the problem with Fiala is that because Minesota is in win now mode, they'll want a cheap quality NHL player headed back the other way like Moore or Grundstrom, and that's in addition to our 1st and maybe another prospect.

Then Fiala's contract is probably gonna be in the 6-8M range. Where as MM's contract will likely be significantly cheaper.

But it's always a risk no matter what you do.

 

[johnjm22]

This was Iafallo's worst statistical year, he struggled with both consistency & injury. He had the third-highest quality of competition among forwards and the majority of his starts were in the D-zone. He played all over the lineup, with Kopitar, Danault, and Lizotte because of his utility, yet he still put up lower 2nd line production.

That's pretty impressive for an off-year, I don't think you are going to get much more than that for $4M AAV. But... He would definitely hold a lot of value in a trade and he's 28, so if the next wave does contend he'll be a bit long in the tooth. Honestly, any contending team that added Iafallo would be a nightmare. He's got a lot of the attributes of guys who pick it up in big games. But yeah, if you can use him to get a more prolific scorer who is a bit younger you do it.

I agree, but I doubt he has much trade value.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

This was Iafallo's worst statistical year, he struggled with both consistency & injury. He had the third-highest quality of competition among forwards and the majority of his starts were in the D-zone. He played all over the lineup, with Kopitar, Danault, and Lizotte because of his utility, yet he still put up lower 2nd line production.

That's pretty impressive for an off-year, I don't think you are going to get much more than that for $4M AAV. But... He would definitely hold a lot of value in a trade and he's 28, so if the next wave does contend he'll be a bit long in the tooth. Honestly, any contending team that added Iafallo would be a nightmare. He's got a lot of the attributes of guys who pick it up in big games. But yeah, if you can use him to get a more prolific scorer who is a bit younger you do it.

And didn't he have like 14 of his 17 goals in the first half of the season? He was trending towards a 30 goal year and nobody was bitching about him until after January. I wonder what happened...