GDT: Kings off-season thread

[Schmooley]

Vilardi's trade value at this point is for another team's "change of scenery" type player. He's not a player that teams are targeting as a significant upgrade to their roster.

Yea unless hes part of a bigger package its probably a 1 for 1 change of scenery type trade. Whats that list look like?
Valimaki, Middelstadt, Heinola, Zadina, Kravtsov, Pierre Joseph, Poehling, Kaut… Anything worth it in there you think? Can maybe do a lighter package for the next tier of guys like Zacha or Debrusk. Maybe Konecny.

 

[lumbergh]

I liked what Grundstrom did in the playoffs, no doubt, but correct me if I am wrong, he just seems like, a straight line player, no hockey IQ, see puck, get puck, see body, hit body, which is not necessarily bad....but feels like he's one of those, if you play him ok fine sure, but you might be better putting him in a package with someone else (vilardi, Roy, walker, XXXXXX etc ) to get a bigger piece.

Sounds a lot like Dustin Brown.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Vilardi's trade value at this point is for another team's "change of scenery" type player. He's not a player that teams are targeting as a significant upgrade to their roster.

Maybe sell Philly's gm on size?

Side note: on the Brady Tkachuk to LA thread, all I can think is Brady is Lemieux's chew toy.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Maybe sell Philly's gm on size?

Side note: on the Brady Tkachuk to LA thread, all I can think is Brady is Lemieux's chew toy.

This isn't a door to door salesman in the 50's. This isn't selling paper at Dunder Mifflin. You don't sell another GM on this or that. We got this big strapping young fella who we think would be great for what you're doing. Huzzah! I'm sold! Everyone knows what Vilardi is. With his 18PIMs in 89 games, and can't stick in the league.

 

[tomd]

Yea unless hes part of a bigger package its probably a 1 for 1 change of scenery type trade. Whats that list look like?
Valimaki, Middelstadt, Heinola, Zadina, Kravtsov, Pierre Joseph, Poehling, Kaut… Anything worth it in there you think? Can maybe do a lighter package for the next tier of guys like Zacha or Debrusk. Maybe Konecny.

That's a good starting list but I'm sure there are others. It would probably need to be a player who is subject to waivers like Vilardi is. Also a team where Vilardi's pace could fit into their system. That is probably a small list.

 

[FSL KINGS]

This isn't a door to door salesman in the 50's. This isn't selling paper at Dunder Mifflin. You don't sell another GM on this or that. We got this big strapping young fella who we think would be great for what you're doing. Huzzah! I'm sold! Everyone knows what Vilardi is. With his 18PIMs in 89 games, and can't stick in the league.

Did you see what they gave up for Risto? Get some pics of Vilardi at the boxing gym, leak those out. Instant C. Fletcher interest.

 

[kilowatt]

Provorov for Vilardi, Grans, and a first would be fine.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Did you see what they gave up for Risto? Get some pics of Vilardi at the boxing gym, leak those out. Instant C. Fletcher interest.

A right shot D who put up multiple 40pt seasons while playing well over 20min every night for years on end. Sure, he's not good, and he played in Buffalo, but that's more than Vilardi has done.

 

[lumbergh]

There's no available top 4LHD without warts. That's why they'd be available. For the price most are willing to pay anyway. I'm sure Clarke could get you something nice.

No warts on Carson Soucy. Under the radar very high quality LHD. If the Kings emerged with just one acquisition this summer and it was Carson Soucy I would be very happy with that. Finished the season in the top 10 in goals per 60 minutes at even strength, so brings offense, defense, size, reach, toughness, hitting. No flash, all quality.

 

[KingsFan7824]

No warts on Carson Soucy. Under the radar very high quality LHD. If the Kings emerged with just one acquisition this summer and it was Carson Soucy I would be very happy with that. Finished the season in the top 10 in goals per 60 minutes at even strength, so brings offense, defense, size, reach, toughness, hitting. No flash, all quality.

And you're willing to give what to Seattle to make them trade him this summer instead of at the deadline? Because I'm sure they know how good he is, and would likely love to re-sign him. Not like there haven't been guys who willingly signed with Seattle, so, can't just assume he even wants out.

 

[Fat Elvis]

No warts on Carson Soucy. Under the radar very high quality LHD. If the Kings emerged with just one acquisition this summer and it was Carson Soucy I would be very happy with that. Finished the season in the top 10 in goals per 60 minutes at even strength, so brings offense, defense, size, reach, toughness, hitting. No flash, all quality.

I like the player a lot, but he's not going to come as cheap as many think. What's the most you'd be willing to pay?

 

[lumbergh]

And you're willing to give what to Seattle to make them trade him this summer instead of at the deadline? Because I'm sure they know how good he is, and would likely love to re-sign him. Not like there haven't been guys who willingly signed with Seattle, so, can't just assume he even wants out.

I would offer Durzi or Walker and a 3rd round pick. Seattle has lots of LHD, but only 2 RHD, so the swap will help balance both teams out. The pick could be substituted with a good, but not top level prospect (JAD/Tkachev/Madden). I might go as high as a 2nd round pick in 2023. I think the value is about right, and Seattle is still in asset acquisition mode.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I would offer Durzi or Walker and a 3rd round pick. Seattle has lots of LHD, but only 2 RHD, so the swap will help balance both teams out. The pick could be substituted with a good, but not top level prospect (JAD/Tkachev/Madden). I might go as high as a 2nd round pick in 2023. I think the value is about right, and Seattle is still in asset acquisition mode.

For a guy fitting this description,

Finished the season in the top 10 in goals per 60 minutes at even strength, so brings offense, defense, size, reach, toughness, hitting. No flash, all quality.

your offer just doesn't seem like enough.

You're also assuming what mode Seattle is in. And that they're even in that mode with every player. They gave multiple veterans multiple multi-year deals at real money last summer.

If Soucy is that good, why would they settle for some combo of Durzi, Walker, a 3rd in 2022, JAD, Tkachev, Madden, and a 2nd in 2023?

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Provorov for Vilardi, Grans, and a first would be fine.

I think that's way overpayment for Provorov. I think you don't sell Vilardi at his curent low value and see what you have in him with a fresh start in camp. He seems like he's out to p[rove himself and not even Todd can hold him back, if he has a great camp and ready.
Grans turned 20 2 weeks ago and had a better than expected year, his first year in pro hockey as a 19 yr old.
Sure, he has work to do...but will get there. Voynov spent 3 full seasons in the AHL. I'd rather see what Grans is like, 1 year from today. Would only deal him in a package for someone better than Provorov, but prefer to hoild onto Grans.

Provorov has had mixed reviews the last 1+ year and I don't like the idea of a Russian on the Kings without having another Russian. I think that's been one of the problems, when the Kings have a Russian on the team - there's never 2 of them. You may think that's not a big deal, but I think that's not a good thing, when there is only 1. I think when a Swede comes in (Arvidsson, Edler, new addition) there are like 3 or 4 Swede's that make it instantly comfortabLe for them....Kempe, Grundstrom, Bjornfot, etc. I do think that matters and 1 reason why all Russians have largely failed here.

I think it would possibly be good to try to sign BOTH Nichushkin and Zadorov. 2 big, Russians that are both 27.
The Kings lack size all around. Both would make impacts and cost nothing but salaries. Just a thought and there are probably better options for 2 acquisitions. But. could be 2 good players that add needed size, can play and both entering their prime.

 

[Piston]

I think that's way overpayment for Provorov. I think you don't sell Vilardi at his curent low value and see what you have in him with a fresh start in camp. He seems like he's out to p[rove himself and not even Todd can hold him back, if he has a great camp and ready.
Grans turned 20 2 weeks ago and had a better than expected year, his first year in pro hockey as a 19 yr old.
Sure, he has work to do...but will get there. Voynov spent 3 full seasons in the AHL. I'd rather see what Grans is like, 1 year from today. Would only deal him in a package for someone better than Provorov, but prefer to hoild onto Grans.

Provorov has had mixed reviews the last 1+ year and I don't like the idea of a Russian on the Kings without having another Russian. I think that's been one of the problems, when the Kings have a Russian on the team - there's never 2 of them. You may think that's not a big deal, but I think that's not a good thing, when there is only 1. I think when a Swede comes in (Arvidsson, Edler, new addition) there are like 3 or 4 Swede's that make it instantly comfortabLe for them....Kempe, Grundstrom, Bjornfot, etc. I do think that matters and 1 reason why all Russians have largely failed here.

I think it would possibly be good to try to sign BOTH Nichushkin and Zadorov. 2 big, Russians that are both 27.
The Kings lack size all around. Both would make impacts and cost nothing but salaries. Just a thought and there are probably better options for 2 acquisitions. But. could be 2 good players that add needed size, can play and both entering their prime.

You make a great point regarding having fellow countrymen within an organization. It must be awfully lonely for a player to leave home, lose the ability to regularly use one's mother tongue and lack someone to vent to when needed. Add in Russophobia that seems to be Western policy, and you have a recipe for lack of success.
I don't like to idea of bringing in players to 'fill holes'. I remember Dean Lombardi and his boxes. What was so important for DL was having he players who fill these boxes at a similar age. Otherwise, you're always scrambling to fill another hole when a players ages out of the core. The King's new core are going to be between 20 (Byfield) and Kempe (25). Adding players much older than them make more sense, that is if you are competing for the Cup as opposed to just making the playoffs.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

You make a great point regarding having fellow countrymen within an organization. It must be awfully lonely for a player to leave home, lose the ability to regularly use one's mother tongue and lack someone to vent to when needed. Add in Russophobia that seems to be Western policy, and you have a recipe for lack of success.
I don't like to idea of bringing in players to 'fill holes'. I remember Dean Lombardi and his boxes. What was so important for DL was having he players who fill these boxes at a similar age. Otherwise, you're always scrambling to fill another hole when a players ages out of the core. The King's new core are going to be between 20 (Byfield) and Kempe (25). Adding players much older than them make more sense, that is if you are competing for the Cup as opposed to just making the playoffs.

That's true as well. When DL's first offseaso, he added so many mid-level fillers...Handzus, Calder, Stuart, etc and he said it was not a good thing, that he had to add so many players...or something negaticve about it.

I am waiting for the 'they are professionals and it matters not, if they have fellow countrymen - all players accept them and make them welcome" But I'm sure it matters, if they have no countrtymen already on the team. Much easier to bond with. I don't think there are any factions, or antything like that....but if they have wives, they also feel better if there's another wife of their country as well....you hear how Danault talks about how they (him and his wife) were embraced, etc...you have to realize most have wives and kids and that matters...for a player to have other countrymen on the team.

 

[Gjwrams]

I like the player a lot, but he's not going to come as cheap as many think. What's the most you'd be willing to pay?

Grans and Akil Thomas?

 

[kilowatt]

I think that's way overpayment for Provorov. I think you don't sell Vilardi at his curent low value and see what you have in him with a fresh start in camp. He seems like he's out to p[rove himself and not even Todd can hold him back, if he has a great camp and ready.
Grans turned 20 2 weeks ago and had a better than expected year, his first year in pro hockey as a 19 yr old.
Sure, he has work to do...but will get there. Voynov spent 3 full seasons in the AHL. I'd rather see what Grans is like, 1 year from today. Would only deal him in a package for someone better than Provorov, but prefer to hoild onto Grans.

Provorov has had mixed reviews the last 1+ year and I don't like the idea of a Russian on the Kings without having another Russian. I think that's been one of the problems, when the Kings have a Russian on the team - there's never 2 of them. You may think that's not a big deal, but I think that's not a good thing, when there is only 1. I think when a Swede comes in (Arvidsson, Edler, new addition) there are like 3 or 4 Swede's that make it instantly comfortabLe for them....Kempe, Grundstrom, Bjornfot, etc. I do think that matters and 1 reason why all Russians have largely failed here.

I think it would possibly be good to try to sign BOTH Nichushkin and Zadorov. 2 big, Russians that are both 27.
The Kings lack size all around. Both would make impacts and cost nothing but salaries. Just a thought and there are probably better options for 2 acquisitions. But. could be 2 good players that add needed size, can play and both entering their prime.

It may be, but I think we do need some help on the left side. How we acquire that help can certainly be debated, but I don't think Edler or Maatta are the long-term answer. At best, Vilardi likely winds up on our third line next year and our RD depth is really deep. Maybe Provorov isn't the answer, I can certainly agree with that. Maybe it's Chychrun, hell maybe we shoot for the moon and try to get Dahlin from Buffalo. I'd even think about trading Byfield for Dahlin.

Dahlin - Doughty
Anderson - Clarke
Durzi - Roy

 

[lumbergh]

For a guy fitting this description,



your offer just doesn't seem like enough.

You're also assuming what mode Seattle is in. And that they're even in that mode with every player. They gave multiple veterans multiple multi-year deals at real money last summer.

If Soucy is that good, why would they settle for some combo of Durzi, Walker, a 3rd in 2022, JAD, Tkachev, Madden, and a 2nd in 2023?

Soucy is a subtly very good player, but he's not gonna draw the kind of offers that a Sergachev or Chychrun will. There's a lot of flash there that Soucy doesn't offer. He's never gonna be a top pairing guy. What I put down as what I would offer if I'm the GM (which I'm not), is something on the order of two 2nd/3rd round picks, which I think is about the right value for Carson Soucy. Maybe even a little high.

I think Seattle is a particularly good trading partner. I'm sure they'd like to field a competitive team, but they're filled with middling talent. You see a guy like Jeremy Lauzon, who played similar minutes to Soucy, fetch a second rounder at the deadline. They need picks, prospects, and players to build out a team. They also have an abundance of LHD, but fewer RHD. The only player who is untouchable on their roster is Matty Beniers.

If you look at the Krakenboard, their posters were basically asking for about the same for Soucy near the deadline. Grans or Durzi + pick or just a 2nd round pick. Durzi has only upped his value since then, and Soucy is only one year away from UFA. I think you might be overvaluing Soucy even more than I am.

 

[Sol]

The season just ended fellas. Go to Cabo or something. Forget this team for now

 

[kilowatt]

The season just ended fellas. Go to Cabo or something. Forget this team for now

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The season just ended fellas. Go to Cabo or something. Forget this team for now

Sounds good, Sol. We'll talk to you in October...be careful!

 

[johnjm22]

Seems like the price tag for defensemen has been pretty rich over the past year.

It'll be tough for the Kings to land a quality dman without giving up their 1st IMO.

 

[tomd]

Soucy is a subtly very good player, but he's not gonna draw the kind of offers that a Sergachev or Chychrun will. There's a lot of flash there that Soucy doesn't offer. He's never gonna be a top pairing guy. What I put down as what I would offer if I'm the GM (which I'm not), is something on the order of two 2nd/3rd round picks, which I think is about the right value for Carson Soucy. Maybe even a little high.

I think Seattle is a particularly good trading partner. I'm sure they'd like to field a competitive team, but they're filled with middling talent. You see a guy like Jeremy Lauzon, who played similar minutes to Soucy, fetch a second rounder at the deadline. They need picks, prospects, and players to build out a team. They also have an abundance of LHD, but fewer RHD. The only player who is untouchable on their roster is Matty Beniers.

If you look at the Krakenboard, their posters were basically asking for about the same for Soucy near the deadline. Grans or Durzi + pick or just a 2nd round pick. Durzi has only upped his value since then, and Soucy is only one year away from UFA. I think you might be overvaluing Soucy even more than I am.

Soucy at the '23 TDL will get at least the return that Chariot got this year. His return could even approach LIndholm levels if he continues to improve.

 

[johnjm22]

There's very few good options out there for LHD unfortunately.

Back in the day is was always RHD that were harder to find.