Kings did not trade for Chychrun!

[bmr]

What package are we talking about here? Turcotte, Durzi, Walker, and a 1st?

Anderson - Doughty
Chychrun - Clarke
Bjornfot - Roy
Edler - Spence

Is some combination of these eight players a cup-winning defense in the next three years?

I'm not sure I would do that trade.

Chychrun has been such a hot topic. With Clarke, Durzi and Spence emerging, I really don't think we lack offensive talent on the blueline. I still say we just need a big, mobile LHD to shore everything up. I'd pass on Chychrun.

 

[crassbonanza]

Basic idea is to add to the LD. I know you have a hardon for Chycrun but I don’t believe we have to give up all that for some help on the left side. Dillon maybe a stopgap but he addresses the lack of size on the backend. Career plus player too. Same thing with Hague. Sanheim is more of the offensive type LD. All 3 may well be had for far less than Chycrun and his brittle health.

I mean, it's not so much a hardon, but I do think he would be a valuable add seeing as how the Kings have struggled offensively. I think there are issues with all of those potential additions, just as there are some with Chychrun. I suppose it would all come down to cost.

Chychrun is better than Hague and Hague is currently holding out, does Vegas move him for less than a 1st? He might be the better choice in that scenario, but what kind of contract does he want?

Sanheim is good and I like him a lot, I watch a lot of Flyers games. Again though, what is his acquisition cost? A 1st? If so, do you give him another contract after this year? How much of a salary bump will he get with the new contract?

As for Dillon, he wouldn't be a bad addition, but I just would hope for a higher impact acquisition.

 

[Little Psycho]

Getting a goalie is a bigger priority

 

[kinghock]

That’s the crux of the argument. The piniellis/Helenius/Chromiaks/Lafreirres are on the way now too. Losing these pieces to add a solid top dman isn’t that much of a loss. The ammo is there to use.

The ammo is there to use to trade for always injured player who is not physical and not very good defensively.

I do not believe it.

 

[LAKings88]

The ammo is there to use to trade for always injured player who is not physical and not very good defensively.

I do not believe it.

Or you can sit on it and wait for it to depreciates further and walk off into waiver sunset.

Chychrun is a big risk and gamble. If the value is lowered it may be worth it. Yes he is out until November. Maybe he lights it up when he comes back and his value is higher at the deadline.

Soucy/Sanheim/Hague aren’t bad either. I like Soucy out of the bunch. Two out of three may not even be on the block.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Or you can sit on it and wait for it to depreciates further and walk off into waiver sunset.

Chychrun is a big risk and gamble. If the value is lowered it may be worth it. Yes he is out until November. Maybe he lights it up when he comes back and his value is higher at the deadline.

Soucy/Sanheim/Hague aren’t bad either. I like Soucy out of the bunch. Two out of three may not even be on the block.

Honestly I would rather pay a higher value for some certainty than a current value for the dice roll.

i'm sure that sounds backwards but that's a win for everyone. if Chychrun can stay healthy for this entire season and show it's just a string of fluke injuries rather than that he's just a north american sami salo, it's better.

 

[LAKings88]

Honestly I would rather pay a higher value for some certainty than a current value for the dice roll.

i'm sure that sounds backwards but that's a win for everyone. if Chychrun can stay healthy for this entire season and show it's just a string of fluke injuries rather than that he's just a north american sami salo, it's better.

Makes sense.

GM must have a plan right? I mean they have a 100 rhd and centers turned wingers.

Hague would be awesome honestly just not sure Vegas does that.

 

[Gjwrams]

I don't think they need to trade for Chychrun per se, but I am fine with packaging excess assets for upgrades, if available. Just good asset management.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Makes sense.

GM must have a plan right? I mean they have a 100 rhd and centers turned wingers.

Hague would be awesome honestly just not sure Vegas does that.

Yep, I think he's just being smartly patient.

Many posters here wanted to start jettisoning RHD like right when the season ended but there's no rush, no harm being done right now. Everyone's in the right spots imo. Just have to wait for a deal to present itself and I'm sure they have a list of internal targets as well.

 

[mysterman2]

I'm not sure I would do that trade.

Chychrun has been such a hot topic. With Clarke, Durzi and Spence emerging, I really don't think we lack offensive talent on the blueline. I still say we just need a big, mobile LHD to shore everything up. I'd pass on Chychrun.

whats funny....IMHO Durzi has lowest ceiling out of all of them. I like his style and his passion- but the skill level of Clarke is doughty like in natural ability and Spence just has no weaknesses.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Durzi is going to have a 45 point/90 PIM season with a +20 rating.

And on top of that Grundstrom will finally play 80 games and blossom; Toronto fans will be in shambles.

 

[Fishhead]

Chychrun played in 166 games the last 3 seasons logging 2997 minutes, while Hague played 142 games and logged 2173 minutes. Chychrun had a +2.26 CF% Rel, a +2.83 GF% Rel, and a +3.05 xGF% Rel. Hague had a +1.37 GF% Rel, a -2.47 GF% Rel and a 0.92 xGF% Rel. Chyhchrun had an ozone start% of 48.35, while Hague had a 61.09. Chychrun had 24 goals and 57 ES points and a 45.60 IPP, while Hague had 9 goals and 37 points and a 33.64 IPP. I'm not sure where the argument is that Hague is better than Chychrun.

Sanheim(who I like a lot) is a good comparable for Chychrun as they are fairly close among all stats, but the big difference for me is goal scoring and overall offense. If the advanced stats are similar, I would lean towards the game who is capable of providing some much needed offense. Also, Sanheim is a UFA who is on a contract that is already bigger than Chychrun's. So you would either be acquiring him as a rental or would be giving him a fairly significant raise. Is Sanheim at an 8 million cap hit better than Chychrun with a 4.6 million cap hit?

I think Hague is leaps and bounds ahead of Chychrun defensively, he rarely gets burned. He's not a bruising hitter, but he initiates contact while Chychrun avoids it. We need that element. And, really it's not too difficult to pull those rel numbers on a terrible Phoenix team. Putting up good rel numbers on a stacked Vegas team when you are 22 is pretty damn impressive. It also should be noted that Chychrun is almost never lined up against the other team's top lines, traditionally he's 4th or 5th among D in quality of competition. Arizona utilizes him as a pure offensive player - that's his skillset - but that's not what the Kings need. My biggest misgivings with him are that he has never handled top competition well and his numbers would drop off due to the type of responsibility that would be required of him. That, along with injuries, means there are a lot of other players I would take over him.

There is no doubt that Chychrun is the better offensive player, but I personally think Hague is better at enough other facets of the game that he eclipses him. Plus, we have offensive types in spades, I simply think we need a crease clearer and physical type who can chip in points much more.

Sanheim is one of my favorites, I would gladly give him a long-term deal. I don't think he'll get 8 but 7 isn't bad for a D-man of his caliber who is only 26.

I'm not totally against Chychrun either, I'm just totally against Chychrun at the price it would take in assets.

 

[crassbonanza]

I think Hague is leaps and bounds ahead of Chychrun defensively, he rarely gets burned. He's not a bruising hitter, but he initiates contact while Chychrun avoids it. We need that element. And, really it's not too difficult to pull those rel numbers on a terrible Phoenix team. Putting up good rel numbers on a stacked Vegas team when you are 22 is pretty damn impressive. It also should be noted that Chychrun is almost never lined up against the other team's top lines, traditionally he's 4th or 5th among D in quality of competition. Arizona utilizes him as a pure offensive player - that's his skillset - but that's not what the Kings need. My biggest misgivings with him are that he has never handled top competition well and his numbers would drop off due to the type of responsibility that would be required of him. That, along with injuries, means there are a lot of other players I would take over him.

I know that hits are a notorious stat for not being overly reliable, but Hague and Chychrun had about the same hits per game last year. Also, Hague was 6th on Vegas in TOI/GP, so would Hague's numbers drop as well if he had added responsibility? Among regular defensemen on Vegas he had the second worst GF%, the worst xGF%, the worst SCF%, the worst HDCF%, etc.

There is no doubt that Chychrun is the better offensive player, but I personally think Hague is better at enough other facets of the game that he eclipses him. Plus, we have offensive types in spades, I simply think we need a crease clearer and physical type who can chip in points much more.

I guess I just don't see where Hague is better honestly, I watched a decent amount of Vagas last year and he never really stood out to me. I do think we are missing a crease clearer, but I also think we are missing offensive blue liners.

Sanheim is one of my favorites, I would gladly give him a long-term deal. I don't think he'll get 8 but 7 isn't bad for a D-man of his caliber who is only 26.

Like I said, I like Sanheim a lot as well, but the pending contract makes this potential acquisition interesting.

I'm not totally against Chychrun either, I'm just totally against Chychrun at the price it would take in assets.

I think that's the crux of my argument, without knowing the hypothetical trades, people are crapping on Chychrun and advocating for other players. If Sanheim is so much better than Chych, why would the Flyers let him go for less than Chych? Same with Hague, if he is so much better, is he holding out for a 5 million+ contract?

 

[kings11]

Yes, I think that is a defense that could win a championship in the next 1-4 years. But you would need Byfield and Kaliyev to be pretty good probably starting this season or next. The biggest concern would then shift to goaltending.

The 1st is probably the most valuable asset going the other way. But again you are talking about a 17 year old asset (likely taken in the back half of the 1st) for a team thats Top 11 players (Top 6, Top 4, Starting G) are

Kopitar - 35
Doughty - 33
Fiala - 26
Kempe - 26
Danault - 29
Moore - 27
Arviddson - 29
Durzi - 23
Roy - 27
Anderson - 27
Quick - 36

Average Age: 29 years old

Even if they make a good pick, with the way the team handles young players the earliest you are likely looking at that pick is in his age 21 season. By that time the majority of these players will be either retired or on the wrong side of 30. Yes that does hurt the Byfield, Clarke group but we have already committed to trying to win in the next 3 years with the Kopi/Doughty group combined with the prime player acquisitions made over the last two summers. That was shown when they traded a 1st this year and a high-end prospect for Fiala.

Durzi is the 2nd most valuable asset, and it sucks to give up on a younger player who actually showed through last season, but he is just caught in a numbers game with the RHD.

Turcotte gives Phoenix a younger player with some respectable upside should he be able to actually play. But he's still not even a lock to return, and even when he does he is pretty buried on LA's depth chart.

The Yotes aren’t going to ask for Turc after they just drafted Cooley and Geekie plus already having Schmaltz and Hayton.

They would need Dmen that are either in the NHL or NHL ready… Enter Durzi and Grans

Durzi
Grans
Cap dump
2023 1st rd (top 3 protected)

Edit: Cap Dump would be Walker, I think

 

[Fishhead]

I think that's the crux of my argument, without knowing the hypothetical trades, people are crapping on Chychrun and advocating for other players. If Sanheim is so much better than Chych, why would the Flyers let him go for less than Chych? Same with Hague, if he is so much better, is he holding out for a 5 million+ contract?

That's the big question, really. Hague will probably get in the 3's, but Vegas can't afford that as they are handcuffed even though that's a perfectly fair contract. It's the Eichel effect. He played next to Pietro on the first line a lot last year, yet they don't even offer him. Typical Vegas shenanigans, probably trying to save cap. As far as Sanheim, he's UFA after this season so if they don't extend him (which they should), he's not going to get the return he would if he was locked in.

I fully acknowledge that Sanheim is probably a pipedream, especially with Ellis out all year, but Philly is a strange beast. They have a lot of money committed to that defense already, a huge chunk of the cap.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm not sure how this calculates...but is Vegas not getting LTIR relief yet? Would they be waiting for that to sign him?

 

[FSL KINGS]

I know that hits are a notorious stat for not being overly reliable, but Hague and Chychrun had about the same hits per game last year. Also, Hague was 6th on Vegas in TOI/GP, so would Hague's numbers drop as well if he had added responsibility? Among regular defensemen on Vegas he had the second worst GF%, the worst xGF%, the worst SCF%, the worst HDCF%, etc.


I guess I just don't see where Hague is better honestly, I watched a decent amount of Vagas last year and he never really stood out to me. I do think we are missing a crease clearer, but I also think we are missing offensive blue liners.



Like I said, I like Sanheim a lot as well, but the pending contract makes this potential acquisition interesting.



I think that's the crux of my argument, without knowing the hypothetical trades, people are crapping on Chychrun and advocating for other players. If Sanheim is so much better than Chych, why would the Flyers let him go for less than Chych? Same with Hague, if he is so much better, is he holding out for a 5 million+ contract?

AZ thinks they are selling a #1 D & are asking 3X 1st round equivalents. Three 1sts is the asking price. Let that sink in. Chychrun is not that level of player.

Sanheim may be available cheaper because he's a pending UFA that Philly may have trouble re-signing after they turn in another terrible year.

The Yotes aren’t going to ask for Turc after they just drafted Cooley and Geekie plus already having Schmaltz and Hayton.

They would need Dmen that are either in the NHL or NHL ready… Enter Durzi and Grans

Durzi
Grans
Cap dump
2023 1st rd (top 3 protected)

Edit: Cap Dump would be Walker, I think

Not a fan of the idea of trading Grans. The King's are going to run into the salary cap shortly. A cheap D that can contribute will come in handy in the near future.

 

[Inner Turbulence]

Durzi is going to have a 45 point/90 PIM season with a +20 rating.

And on top of that Grundstrom will finally play 80 games and blossom; Toronto fans will be in shambles.

I am curious what you base that on.
Dude was -9 last season despite a decent amount of points. He was also -5 in the playoffs. I like the dude's confidence, passion and tenacity - but I fear the second coming of Jack Johnson on this guy.

 

[kings11]

AZ thinks they are selling a #1 D & are asking 3X 1st round equivalents. Three 1sts is the asking price. Let that sink in. Chychrun is not that level of player.

Sanheim may be available cheaper because he's a pending UFA that Philly may have trouble re-signing after they turn in another terrible year.



Not a fan of the idea of trading Grans. The King's are going to run into the salary cap shortly. A cheap D that can contribute will come in handy in the near future.

Spence is the cheap Dman that can contribute in the future and you have a very good piece in Kirsanov should he come over

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

but I fear the second coming of Jack Johnson on this guy.

So, we just need him to learn the head fake?

Seriously though, Durzi has looked better in 60 games than JJ had in 6 seasons.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Durzi and JJ are not comparable at all.

At the VERY least Durzi is putting up offense that justifies his softness on D as a specialist.

 

[Fishhead]

I'm not sure how this calculates...but is Vegas not getting LTIR relief yet? Would they be waiting for that to sign him?

The relief isn't active but without it they are at 94.2M or something like that. They have 12.8 on LTIR, so that means they are essentially around a million under the cap right now once it all kicks in. There is Patrick as well. That's 13F, 6D, and 4G. They could go with an ELC goalie to save another 1.5M or so, but they still likely won't have enough to offer Hague what he's worth.

They will have to figure something out for sure.

 

[Kurrilino]

Not a fan of the idea of trading Grans. The King's are going to run into the salary cap shortly. A cheap D that can contribute will come in handy in the near future.

Same here.
Grans is exactly what Dr. ordered.
A defender with size who can skate and plays defense.

This is a rare mix at the Kings defense

 

[mysterman2]

Same here.
Grans is exactly what Dr. ordered.
A defender with size who can skate and plays defense.

This is a rare mix at the Kings defense

Pulling for him for the sake of the team but think theres a lot of work to do to get him NHL ready.

 

[crassbonanza]

AZ thinks they are selling a #1 D & are asking 3X 1st round equivalents. Three 1sts is the asking price. Let that sink in. Chychrun is not that level of player.

Sanheim may be available cheaper because he's a pending UFA that Philly may have trouble re-signing after they turn in another terrible year.

Well, they obviously haven't received their asking price or he would have been traded by now. So he should be going for less. The Kings currently have a glut of forward tweener prospects that are all going to be facing waivers over the next couple of years. It's not like there are many spots opening with Kopitar, Danault, Fiala, Iafallo, Arrvidson, Kempe, Lizotte and Grundstrom all signed for the next couple of seasons. Assuming Byfield and Kaliyev are on the team, you have two forward spots available for Vilardi, Andersson, Moore(If he is re-signed), JAD, Turcotte, Kupari, Fagemo, Madden and Thomas. If you can package one of those prospects and a first for Chychrun I think it would be a good move.

Sanheim being a pending UFA may make his value lower, but unless the Kings believe they are cup contenders this season it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He would make more sense to a team going all in at the deadline.