Kings did not trade for Chychrun!

[crassbonanza]

Durzi and JJ are not comparable at all.

At the VERY least Durzi is putting up offense that justifies his softness on D as a specialist.

JJ put up decent offense in his day, despite being Jack "Minus Forever" Johnson. At the same age, JJ put up .45 P/GP compared to Durxi who put up .42 P/GP. JJ also had 63% of his points at ES, compared to Durzi at just 40%. Also, the league average for team goals per game when JJ put up those numbers was just 2.84, compared to last season where the goals per game was 3.14.

JJ and Durzi are not the same player, but let's not act like he couldn't put up offense in comparison to Durzi.

 

[Herby]

If Sean Durzi were American he would not be in consideration for Team USA in a best vs. best tournament. Johnson made two of those teams, including an Olympic team when he was 22 years old. Younger than Durzi was when he made his NHL debut.

I love Durzi, he did everything that was asked of him and more, but come on, lets pump the brakes a bit, he is not a better player than JJ.

 

[Lt Dan]

The one thing that I want to say about Durzi was that his call up completely transformed this team.

He's got his flaws, but he is a difference maker

 

[belair]

That is such an odd collection of defensemen, none of them are really related in playstyle/contract/veteran status.

Dillon is 32, has a career .21 ppg and has a 4 million cap hit.
Hague is 23, has a .3 career PPG and is just coming off his ELC in need of a new contract.
Sanheim is 26, has a career PPG of .35 and is on the last year of a 4.675 cap hit.

Not even sure what the theme is other than them all being blue liner.

Sorry, but I have to chime in here. Not a King fan by any means. But Sanheim had 31 points at even strength last season. The last time Doughty matched that, he was 28. Not to mention his on-ice results were staggering considering the team he was on and the kind of competition he regularly faced.

The biggest value you're getting from Chychrun is his contract and the term left on it, not play quality. Sanheim is the better defenseman.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Sorry, but I have to chime in here. Not a King fan by any means. But Sanheim had 31 points at even strength last season. The last time Doughty matched that, he was 28. Not to mention his on-ice results were staggering considering the team he was on and the kind of competition he regularly faced.

The biggest value getting from Chychrun is contract, not play quality. Sanheim is the better defenseman.

I would personally rather have Sanheim without contract status (and likely cost to acquire) factored in.

 

[crassbonanza]

Sorry, but I have to chime in here. Not a King fan by any means. But Sanheim had 31 points at even strength last season. The last time Doughty matched that, he was 28. Not to mention his on-ice results were staggering considering the team he was on and the kind of competition he regularly faced.

The biggest value you're getting from Chychrun is his contract and the term left on it, not play quality. Sanheim is the better defenseman.

I wasn't knocking Sanheim with this post, I was saying that it was an odd collection of defensemen listed and showed the different scoring rates, contract status and age of each. I like Sanheim a lot, but am wary of trading a lot for him because he is a UFA at the end of the season and the Kings don't have much in the way of cap space to sign him. A contender should be trading for him, not the Kings. Chychrun is ideal because he is on a value contract and has scoring talent.

Also, not sure why you are knocking Doughty, he put up 31 points in 39 games last season, while Sanheim put up 31 in 80 games. No reason to try to compare, especially when 2 of the last 4 seasons you are referencing were not full seasons and the other 1 he got injured in.

 

[belair]

I wasn't knocking Sanheim with this post, I was saying that it was an odd collection of defensemen listed and showed the different scoring rates, contract status and age of each. I like Sanheim a lot, but am wary of trading a lot for him because he is a UFA at the end of the season and the Kings don't have much in the way of cap space to sign him. A contender should be trading for him, not the Kings. Chychrun is ideal because he is on a value contract and has scoring talent.

Also, not sure why you are knocking Doughty, he put up 31 points in 39 games last season, while Sanheim put up 31 in 80 games. No reason to try to compare, especially when 2 of the last 4 seasons you are referencing were not full seasons and the other 1 he got injured in.

Not knocking Doughty. Just stating that 31 points at even strength puts you in pretty elite company when it comes to point production from the defense. Give the guy regular PP time and Sanheim is high 40s, early 50s. Chychrun doesn't even do that.

I agree though. Sanheim is gonna cost you around $6.5m minimum to lock up long-term. There's a risk that he walks. When it comes to Chychrun, you'd better be damn certain your team is in a position to take advantage of those three value years left on his contract.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

JJ put up decent offense in his day, despite being Jack "Minus Forever" Johnson. At the same age, JJ put up .45 P/GP compared to Durxi who put up .42 P/GP. JJ also had 63% of his points at ES, compared to Durzi at just 40%. Also, the league average for team goals per game when JJ put up those numbers was just 2.84, compared to last season where the goals per game was 3.14.

JJ and Durzi are not the same player, but let's not act like he couldn't put up offense in comparison to Durzi.

If Sean Durzi were American he would not be in consideration for Team USA in a best vs. best tournament. Johnson made two of those teams, including an Olympic team when he was 22 years old. Younger than Durzi was when he made his NHL debut.

I love Durzi, he did everything that was asked of him and more, but come on, lets pump the brakes a bit, he is not a better player than JJ.

I'm just gonna say if your defense of Chychrun relies in any way on romanticizing Jack Johnson via bashing on Durzi, and your bashing on Durzi basically solely because he hit the league later than JJ, you're not making a great case.

But to be fair, I'm not sold on Chychrun over the other options, especially in his current status. If he can prove he can stay relatively healthy and then play consistent to follow that, he's worth more and it's worth the price. But right now, the buy-in is much too hot for what he MIGHT bring.

And I'm also not that high on him at all, I think on a great team he's more of a #2-#3 than a true #1, which is why the extra-exorbitant prices are nuts to me. Again, reminds me a lot of OEL's situation, where he CAN play passable #1 minutes, but is much better suited to different usage (and also why Chychrun's deployment with the Yotes is what it is despite big minutes).

 

[johnjm22]

If Sean Durzi were American he would not be in consideration for Team USA in a best vs. best tournament. Johnson made two of those teams, including an Olympic team when he was 22 years old. Younger than Durzi was when he made his NHL debut.

I love Durzi, he did everything that was asked of him and more, but come on, lets pump the brakes a bit, he is not a better player than JJ.

He's not as highly touted as JJ, but it's not unreasonable to think he will be a better player than him.

 

[AbsentMojo]

What I dont understand about this thread - maybe Im missing something - but no talk of sending salary back the other way...Ive only seen prospects mentioned... 4.6mil needs to loosen up.. who would that be, Iafallo gets you close.

 

[Sol]

Bjornfots year to year growth is taking one more rush A season. That’s not good enough. He takes the puck in yeah but he’s not great at passing and his shot is ass. What good was Jeff Giuliano when he took the puck into the offensive zone and crashed into the boards ?

 

[AbsentMojo]

Bjornfots year to year growth is taking one more rush A season. That’s not good enough. He takes the puck in yeah but he’s not great at passing and his shot is ass. What good was Jeff Giuliano when he took the puck into the offensive zone and crashed into the boards ?

I agree with this. Bjornfot is a 7 in every category - nothing stands out. He's not big at 6'.. he skates well, has good gap control. i dont see what is upside is... he's not lubo.. maybe Hickey?

 

[crassbonanza]

Not knocking Doughty. Just stating that 31 points at even strength puts you in pretty elite company when it comes to point production from the defense. Give the guy regular PP time and Sanheim is high 40s, early 50s. Chychrun doesn't even do that.

Let me preface this by saying I like Sanheim, I watch a ton of Flyers games and he is a great defensemen. I just don't see how you can project his powerplay scoring the way you are, he has a 1.6 P/60 on the powerplay over the past 3 seasons. By far the worst among any regular defensemen on the Flyers, Cam York is the next worst and he is at 3.16.

Also, Chychrun had a .43 ES PPG last season compared to Sanheim at .39, the season prior Chych was at .48 ES points per game while Sanheim was at .27 ES PPG. Again, I am not trying to go at Sanheim, just showing that Chychrun is no slouch.

 

[crassbonanza]

I'm just gonna say if your defense of Chychrun relies in any way on romanticizing Jack Johnson via bashing on Durzi, and your bashing on Durzi basically solely because he hit the league later than JJ, you're not making a great case.

Dude, you were the one who said JJ didn't put up offense unlike Durzi. I'm not romanticizing him at all, I just pointed out that he did provide offense, in fact more than Durzi at the same age. Like, what you said was just plain wrong, it has nothing to do with bashing Durzi, hyping JJ or trading for Chych.

 

[belair]

Let me preface this by saying I like Sanheim, I watch a ton of Flyers games and he is a great defensemen. I just don't see how you can project his powerplay scoring the way you are, he has a 1.6 P/60 on the powerplay over the past 3 seasons. By far the worst among any regular defensemen on the Flyers, Cam York is the next worst and he is at 3.16.

Also, Chychrun had a .43 ES PPG last season compared to Sanheim at .39, the season prior Chych was at .48 ES points per game while Sanheim was at .27 ES PPG. Again, I am not trying to go at Sanheim, just showing that Chychrun is no slouch.

Looking specifically at the data, it's likelier that Chychrun continues to miss those 20 games a season than he is to consistently score at those rates. He's got one season on record where he topped 40 points and it was a year where they played the same 7 teams over and over.

When it comes to PP production the personnel who play top unit will generally have the better results. Sanheim has never been a primary option in Philly. I don't really think that's his game either.

 

[Herby]

I agree with this. Bjornfot is a 7 in every category - nothing stands out. He's not big at 6'.. he skates well, has good gap control. i dont see what is upside is... he's not lubo.. maybe Hickey?

This is the issue. He does nothing exceptionally well, the offensive game just has not developed as we all hoped and expected, and while he isn't close to a defensive liability he is far off of even what a guy like Anderson provides defensively.

He is just a vanilla third pairing d-man, and I think it is fair to question his long-term ceiling. 19 and 20 are usually pretty big development years and he really just seems like he plateaued and this might be what he is long-term. For a later 1st round pick that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I don't know if being in the AHL is going to further develop a player who already has 100+ NHL games. I think it could do the opposite, his morale must be pretty bad right now, but we will see when/if he returns.

 

[crassbonanza]

Looking specifically at the data, it's likelier that Chychrun continues to miss those 20 games a season than he is to consistently score at those rates. He's got one season on record where he topped 40 points and it was a year where they played the same 7 teams over and over.

When it comes to PP production the personnel who play top unit will generally have the better results. Sanheim has never been a primary option in Philly. I don't really think that's his game either.

I think one issue with the comparison is that Chychrun started in the league at 18, whereas Sanheim started at 21. Since his age 21 season Chychrun has a .53 PPG, whereas Sanheim had a .33 PPG rate over his 21-23 seasons. Even if you take out Chychrun's outlier year, he had a .43 PPG over that stretch, which is better than Sanheim's career totals of .35, As for missing games, I agree that is an issue, but the prior two seasons were shortened and during those he played essentially the full season, for reference Sanheim played 124 and Chychrun played 119.

I do think Sanheimis better in a lot of areas and if the two of them had the same contract I would rather have Sanheim, but that is the huge difference for me. Especially because the Kings have so many forward prospects who are going to eventually be facing waivers, Chychrun seems like the most logical choice to fix a deficiency.

Also, I like the Flyers a lot, I saw Provy and TK's first career points live and loved when Ghost emerged onto the scene. I watch almost all Philly games, so this is not some sort of shit talk about your guy, I even remember when he was drafted and was the only one not booed. Wasn't that Hextall's first pick?

 

[Fishhead]

This is the issue. He does nothing exceptionally well, the offensive game just has not developed as we all hoped and expected, and while he isn't close to a defensive liability he is far off of even what a guy like Anderson provides defensively.

He is just a vanilla third pairing d-man, and I think it is fair to question his long-term ceiling. 19 and 20 are usually pretty big development years and he really just seems like he plateaued and this might be what he is long-term. For a later 1st round pick that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I don't know if being in the AHL is going to further develop a player who already has 100+ NHL games. I think it could do the opposite, his morale must be pretty bad right now, but we will see when/if he returns.

I thought he looked great tonight and has looked better this preseason than at any point last year. I don't see a plateau yet, but I don't think his ceiling is any more than a 2nd pair guy, a less physical Norstrom lite. Who knows if he gets there, he does have this passiveness to him. I can't tell if its just how he is or because he's young, still adjusting to a new country, etc. Adjustment is different for everyone. I think we saw just the opposite tonight, he initiated plays and wasn't afraid to try things. He also initiated far more contact than he usually does. We will see if it becomes habit.

I agree the AHL is the wrong move. A short stint to save someone from waivers until you make a trade? Sure. A long-term assignment there will do nothing for him.

 

[Fishhead]

I think one issue with the comparison is that Chychrun started in the league at 18, whereas Sanheim started at 21. Since his age 21 season Chychrun has a .53 PPG, whereas Sanheim had a .33 PPG rate over his 21-23 seasons. Even if you take out Chychrun's outlier year, he had a .43 PPG over that stretch, which is better than Sanheim's career totals of .35, As for missing games, I agree that is an issue, but the prior two seasons were shortened and during those he played essentially the full season, for reference Sanheim played 124 and Chychrun played 119.

I do think Sanheimis better in a lot of areas and if the two of them had the same contract I would rather have Sanheim, but that is the huge difference for me. Especially because the Kings have so many forward prospects who are going to eventually be facing waivers, Chychrun seems like the most logical choice to fix a deficiency.

Also, I like the Flyers a lot, I saw Provy and TK's first career points live and loved when Ghost emerged onto the scene. I watch almost all Philly games, so this is not some sort of shit talk about your guy, I even remember when he was drafted and was the only one not booed. Wasn't that Hextall's first pick?

Injuries do scare me with Chychrun, but the other thing that gives me pause is that one good season - it screams outlier right now. Without that season he's at .35ppg, which is still pretty damn respectable, but his value is nowhere near the ask.

He was pretty awful last year, which doesn't help my opinion of him right now. It's not like he plays against top guys, either, Gost, Stralman, and Mayo have done the heavy lifting. He'll have to pick it up this year with Stralman gone. He is a decent to good penalty killer, so there is that.

There is a lot to like on the offensive side, but he's just not worth the assets to me right now. I think all teams view him as kind of an enigma and a risk still, which is why he's not in a new sweater. Arizona will certainly hang onto him until they get what they want.

 

[crassbonanza]

Injuries do scare me with Chychrun, but the other thing that gives me pause is that one good season - it screams outlier right now. Without that season he's at .35ppg, which is still pretty damn respectable, but his value is nowhere near the ask.

He was pretty awful last year, which doesn't help my opinion of him right now. It's not like he plays against top guys, either, Gost, Stralman, and Mayo have done the heavy lifting. He'll have to pick it up this year with Stralman gone. He is a decent to good penalty killer, so there is that.

There is a lot to like on the offensive side, but he's just not worth the assets to me right now. I think all teams view him as kind of an enigma and a risk still, which is why he's not in a new sweater. Arizona will certainly hang onto him until they get what they want.

I agree with almost everything you said, but I do want to point out that his 20 ES points last season would have led our blue line.

Anyways, you are right this is all contingent on the cost to acquire him. Arizona hasn't received their ask yet because of the question marks, but as that price comes down we should be involved in my opinion. This is the kind of risk we should be taking, since there is almost no room in our lineup for all of the forward prospects we have.

 

[YP44]

remember in wayne's world where Garth tells Wayne's ex to "get over it go out with someone else". I feel like that is what LA should when trying to get a top 4 LHD. Hopefully it does not end with crashing through a sunroof though

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

I agree with this. Bjornfot is a 7 in every category - nothing stands out. He's not big at 6'.. he skates well, has good gap control. i dont see what is upside is... he's not lubo.. maybe Hickey?

Tobias is a lot better than Hickey. Besides Bjornfot is like 21 years old and a 3 year pro in North America. Give him time maybe he becomes Lubo. Would rather he became a top 4 Dman that excelled defensively since the Kings seem to have a lot of Offense on Defense

 

[Sol]

Yes pull the trade baby

 

[King'sPawn]

Tobias is a lot better than Hickey. Besides Bjornfot is like 21 years old and a 3 year pro in North America. Give him time maybe he becomes Lubo. Would rather he became a top 4 Dman that excelled defensively since the Kings seem to have a lot of Offense on Defense

Hickey's first full season in the NHL has outscored Bjornfot's whole career. And he has averaged 2 minutes on the PK his career (his first full season, he averaged over a minute on the PK).

The worst part of Hickey was that the Kings lost him to waivers and lost value. I cannot agree with the insinuation that Hickey is some terribly inferior player despite carving out a 450+ game career.

 

[Cianide]

No they "shouldn't".